0917 Carlisle to Preston (diversion via Settle). Coach J had a trolley just for tea and coffee.
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Change to EMR First Class - what will it mean?
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Interesting. I was in the forward set, coach C.
Yeah I'm not sure what the logic was. I believe @yorkie also suffered a lack of trolley fare for being in the front on the 1207 Preston to Carlisle.
lyesbkz
Member
Last week on the Aurora they had "No.13 Shortbread" which seems to be Pullin's. I can't vouch for this being a local operation but it was a change from the usual Walker's.
I remember noticing the packaging was in EMR's purple colour, which seems to be different from the Pullin's website which is green. Maybe it's been specially packaged for EMR?
WesternLancer
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This mornings Aurora offer. Tho other choices on the first class mini trolley.
it was EMR branded today this too with Miles.
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If there is someone rostered and the trolleys have stock then they do. Less than 5% hit rate IME.
There were two members of staff on the trolley, one of whom even scanned my ticket so I suspect they may have been a guard (perhaps "passing"?).
The first class hosts scan tickets on EMR, they have a work phone with the TTK app activated on it.
Sundays are worked on an "if you want to" basis for hosts so if they're available they can work. They were booked off for many years though.
Ah ok, well that explains that. I'm surprised there were two, perhaps it's because it was an 810? (Ended up on that completely by chance!)
They don't seem to be able to cope with smartcards though but then lots of staff don't seem to be issued with the right tools for reading them including gateline staff.
It does seem a weird railway thing of "if you want to" for staffing. I can't help but think they should work out how many Sunday staff they have and form a proper rota so passengers can be informed in advance which trains have catering and which don't. Also now they have developed a reduced offering for Saturdays it seems a pity not to offer it on Sundays.
Qwerty133
Established Member
Which is a bit of a joke in itself. Either there is a need for the service and the staff should be consistently working or there is no need for it and staff should not have the opportunity to work.
If they want to treat it as a job creation scheme why not extend this to the unemployed working on services that currently have no catering as part of the governments aim to create non-existent jobs for those out of work.
WesternLancer
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Never mind crockery. I realise you are presumably supposed to swig the bottled water from the bottle as no receptacles are provided I don’t think.
As mentioned or much of a ‘first class’ experience really.
Tho presumably if you buy a glass of wine you get a plastic cup. Is alcohol the only thing that’s offered or possible to pay for in EMR first class now?
tocguard
Member
Quite! Another example of the company seemingly not bothered about really improving first class. They've had years to sort out weekend catering and yet it's always been inconsistent. Must account for one of the reasons they believe they can't charge too much for a first upgrade at a weekend, which is a real shame given that there's much more demand at weekends to upgrade people and increase revenue to pay for a better service offering.
No, you have to even buy soft drinks! Not even a can of pop is included. Again, another poor reflection of the first class offering in my opinion.
I almost wonder if 1st class needs to just be renamed, to something like Standard Plus.
I know Avanti do Standard Premium - the 1st class accommodation offering but no food (or lounge access).
To me, I find it odd to advertise services as 1st class if they don't include some sort of complimentary food/drink, as many operators do. EMR are offering some food/drink but it hardly feels like a "1st class" experience to be given a cup of coffee and a biscuit.
It's like the descriptor is becoming redundant.
I know Avanti do Standard Premium - the 1st class accommodation offering but no food (or lounge access).
To me, I find it odd to advertise services as 1st class if they don't include some sort of complimentary food/drink, as many operators do. EMR are offering some food/drink but it hardly feels like a "1st class" experience to be given a cup of coffee and a biscuit.
It's like the descriptor is becoming redundant.
To be fair, complimentary food/drink/lounge access in first class is not the norm - it is something done by a few operators in a few countries.
Generally first class simply means increased space/ambience.
Depends where you look. Eurostar, Amtrak, Railjet, AVE, it includes food.
I also find other countries tend to have a greater distinction between 1st and 2nd, even if food isn't offered.
On an airline or a ferry or cruise 1st class without food would be unheard of.
I am not saying it is a UK-specific issue though. I think any operator branding a slightly larger legroom as 1st class is a bit off really.
tocguard
Member
Also don't forget, as far as I'm aware, didn't EMR close down all the first class lounges too?
With the design and introduction of the new fleet, it could have been an opportunity to go down the route of something similar to avanti standard premium. I'm unsure of the amount of first class seats on an 810 but it definitely spreads across 2 coaches. Potentially they could have had a "proper" first class in the 15 or so seats nearest the galley and a standard premium next door where the rest of the first class seating continues.
With the design and introduction of the new fleet, it could have been an opportunity to go down the route of something similar to avanti standard premium. I'm unsure of the amount of first class seats on an 810 but it definitely spreads across 2 coaches. Potentially they could have had a "proper" first class in the 15 or so seats nearest the galley and a standard premium next door where the rest of the first class seating continues.
tram21
Established Member
Yes, the one at Derby remains branded and open as a lounge but afaik its just a normal waiting room now as its unstaffed and there's no signage to indicate its only for first class ticket holders.
Well I hope it is because I always use it as a waiting room!!!
WesternLancer
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Personally I think that would just be more confusing for passengers. The railway is already quite confusing for a lot of people esp if they are not regular travellers.
'First Class is a commonly understood concept - even if the product offered is on a generally downward trend since the sort of enhancements that generally followed privatisation) ie free food / snacks / drinks etc - which I don't think tended to be part of the 1st class offer in BR days
duffield
Established Member
I think the one at Nottingham is still sitting vacant and locked; it seems ridiculous they didn't just "declassify" it as an extra general waiting area.
It's for let, if someone wants to take it on. It's served as a COVID era mess room and temporary booking on point for a bit during refurbishment but that's all for the last 5 years.
Apparently 47 of the 301 seats are first class in an 810. I don't know what the staffing at EMR is like, but they may consider they need that many first class to make it worth having all the facilities? I think Avanti had a higher proportion of their trains first class before they started downgrading some to standard premium.
WesternLancer
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I believe it is 54 first class seats on a 5 car 810 - from a recent thread
50 on a 5 car 222
109 on an 8 car HST in the past
obv some 222 and 810 do or will operate as longer sets
43096
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Railjet first class does not include food. Nor do many other operators.
I have definitely had complimentary wine on Railjet. Not sure about food as was a short journey.
43096
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I’ve done dozens of Railjet journeys in first class on Interrails and never had free food. I have bought meals on many occasions though!
From personal experiences, Eurostar are a bit stingy with their catering, at least for Plus travellers. I were only offered one hot and one cold drink alongside a delicassiten plate of cold food. I'd like to think Premier (the true first class experience) gets something more substantial.
In France, the distinction on SNCF is much more noticeable travelling on ICNuit than an !noui TGV; being in a four bed couchette is far more comfortable than six, but the only notable difference on TGV is 2+1 seating.
This is GTR's idea of it at least...
Travelmonkey
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I'm on the last train out of st pancrass saturday night do the late train have any offering or should I grab something before heading for my train?
WesternLancer
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Not sure but I would not rely on anything to eat so if you might be hungry you need to have a back up plan (ie a sandwich you already bought before boarding)
This is the problem with their offer on some occasions - you just can't rely on it being available so you have to spend money before you get on the train if you think you might need to eat or drink - then you would not buy anything from them (eg If in standard, which reduces the income and justification for provision)
The later the train the more chance of things not being available / loaded on board etc.
The flip side of this is when you then buy something before you board, and you do get offered the complimentary stuff, you end up taking home what you bought and eating a day old sandwich for lunch the next day...
and in the past I have had good service on the late evening trains too. It's just you can't be certain of it.
Please report back on what happens!
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