New routes for Avanti?

[lrbvoyager]

Hello, this is pure speculation and what ifs. If Avanti could implement new routes where would they go to? Maybe Inverness or Aberdeen?

 

[xotGD]

Huddersfield, Bolton, Barrow.

 

[Trainguy34]

Llandudno, Windermere, Stranraer (For Belfast?)

 

[Topological]

Assuming you need overhead wires:

Bromsgrove (though possibly not enough power in the lines)
Walsall
Manchester Airport
Bolton (as already mentioned)
Stalybridge via Manchester Victoria (and later Huddersfield)

Are any of these sensible? Probably not, though maybe Walsall at a push if there was a diagram with time in Birmingham.

 

[lrbvoyager]

Llandudno, Windermere, Stranraer (For Belfast?)

Windermere might be a really good shout! Would have to use 805s mind and there’s restraints with it being single track.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Jan 2026 ==

Assuming you need overhead wires:

Bromsgrove (though possibly not enough power in the lines)
Walsall
Manchester Airport
Bolton (as already mentioned)
Stalybridge via Manchester Victoria (and later Huddersfield)

Are any of these sensible? Probably not, though maybe Walsall at a push if there was a diagram with time in Birmingham.

For man airport I presume it would be served by an 807 as I’m not sure a 390 would fit?

 

[Uncle Buck]

As others have suggested, Manchester Airport or why not have a couple of services that terminate in secondary centres of major metropolitan areas, rather than the city centre? Birkenhead, Burnley, etc. This would be more likely to attract people who would otherwise not travel by train.

Otherwise I would suggest either Blackpool or the perennial favourite of Shrewsbury. What about Euston-Birmingham-Wolverhampton-Shrewsbury-Wrexham-Chester-Birkenhead?

Hello, this is pure speculation and what ifs. If Avanti could implement new routes where would they go to? Maybe Inverness or Aberdeen?

Anything heading north of Glasgow has to avoid Glasgow itself, so that might limit prospects for growth. Perhaps Perth would be a good terminus for any such service?

Stranraer (For Belfast?)

Would this go via Dumfries, Kilmarnock Ayr? Certainly Ayr is a good shout- mosy of Ayrshire has poor connections to anywhere other than Glasgow

 

[Topological]

Windermere might be a really good shout! Would have to use 805s mind and there’s restraints with it being single track.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Jan 2026 ==


For man airport I presume it would be served by an 807 as I’m not sure a 390 would fit?

Yes, Pendolino is 217m for a 9-carriage, whereas the platforms at Manchester Airport are only 200m long.

Whether the signalling allows trains to overhang the platform I am not sure. Even then, the front passenger door would not be platformed.

 

[The Planner]

Yes, Pendolino is 217m for a 9-carriage, whereas the platforms at Manchester Airport are only 200m long.

Whether the signalling allows trains to overhang the platform I am not sure. Even then, the front passenger door would not be platformed.

Will be possible from 2028, not sure why you would though.

 

[Topological]

Will be possible from 2028, not sure why you would though.

Yes, I do not really know either.

There does need to be a better service from the South, but extensions of the 730s/350s would make more sense.

 

[Harpo]

the perennial favourite of Shrewsbury.

Aberystwyth via Crewe and Shrewsbury (2h 15?) or via Stafford, and Telford to Shrewsbury (2h 25?)

A through mid Wales to London service that’s potentially 30-40 minutes faster.

 

[Chester1]

Most of these have been looked into in the last 20 years and they tend to be financially unviable or impractical. Bolton will have a good business case but long trains at Piccadilly 13 and 14 are a nightmare requiring huge numbers of staff and Oxford Road has short platforms until early 2030s. Llandudno could be served but at the cost for places further along the coast. Windermere would be great at weekends May to September but could only be served by 805s. Most of the suggestions would realistically be once daily and would require robbing Peter to pay Paul.

 

[Falcon1200]

Stranraer (For Belfast?)

Stranraer doesn't serve the ships any more, and most long distance traffic to Belfast has long since been lost to the airlines.

Anything heading north of Glasgow has to avoid Glasgow itself,

It is possible to run into Glasgow Central and reverse to continue north, but of course with a time penalty. However BR at one time ran an Ayr/Euston service......

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

You have to think in a GBR context, when Avanti (=ICWC) may not exist in its current form.
It's quite possible that Avanti's services will be merged with LNR's and possibly TPE's (WCML) services.
Other combinations are possible, depending on how GBR organises its (TOC+NR) "Regions".

Any extensions off the existing wires will need a bigger fleet of bi-modes which will take years to deliver.
Huddersfield might be the exception, once TRU wires are complete, but routeing through Manchester will be an issue.
Then there's the transition to HS2 rolling stock and the implications of that on classic services.
Currently ICWC is set to operate HS2 when it opens, but GBR might change all that.

 

[nw1]

The obvious Telford/Shrewsbury could presumably be done for little pain and relatively large gain - I think they have bi-modes nowadays, don't they?

 

[The exile]

Stranraer doesn't serve the ships any more, and most long distance traffic to Belfast has long since been lost to the airlines.



It is possible to run into Glasgow Central and reverse to continue north, but of course with a time penalty. However BR at one time ran an Ayr/Euston service......

Well, they ran a crowd-busting Ayr - Glasgow service that used the stock for the Royal Scot so advertised as a through service. Doubt Ayrshire -the South traffic would have made it viable.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The obvious Telford/Shrewsbury could presumably be done for little pain and relatively large gain - I think they have bi-modes nowadays, don't they?

They do have enough 805s for that, as it was in the network planned for them when ordered.
But after axing the service (for the second time) recently, what incentive is there to restart it?
I can't see GBR being any keener to run unprofitable services than Avanti.

 

[nw1]

They do have enough 805s for that, as it was in the network planned for them when ordered.
But after axing the service (for the second time) recently, what incentive is there to restart it?
I can't see GBR being any keener to run unprofitable services than Avanti.

Could there be a more efficient way of running it under GBR, i.e. have the service double up as the 2nd train in each hour (every other hour, perhaps, so one train in four) from Shrewsbury-Birmingham (the ex-Wales service being the first)?

 

[FGWHST43009]

Assuming you need overhead wires:

Bromsgrove (though possibly not enough power in the lines)
Walsall
Manchester Airport
Bolton (as already mentioned)
Stalybridge via Manchester Victoria (and later Huddersfield)

Are any of these sensible? Probably not, though maybe Walsall at a push if there was a diagram with time in Birmingham.

You'd either need to use 805s (of which there are limited numbers) or electrify the fast lines from King's Norton to Longbridge to serve Bromsgrove. Also platforms at Bromsgrove are likely to be too short for anything longer than an 805 anyway. Huddersfield is more of a possibility as that will be upgraded soon but hard to tell how it will get around Manchester without having to reverse or use the crowded Castlefield Corridor. The solution I can think of is to use the Chat Moss line and serve Victoria then on to Huddersfield

 

[leshuttle]

South of London? Unlikely any paths free via Kensington Olympia and Gatwick anymore, but Brighton would be great for restoring direct connections to from the north west. Only good for 805s unless Hitachi have a 3rd rail module for their 800s.

 

[FGWHST43009]

South of London? Unlikely any paths free via Kensington Olympia and Gatwick anymore, but Brighton would be great for restoring direct connections to from the north west. Only good for 805s unless Hitachi have a 3rd rail module for their 800s.

You'd need to order more as there probably isn't the stock availability for it unless a Euston service is replaced with a Brighton one. That might require more trains anyway

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

You'd either need to use 805s (of which there are limited numbers) or electrify the fast lines from King's Norton to Longbridge to serve Bromsgrove. Also platforms at Bromsgrove are likely to be too short for anything longer than an 805 anyway. Huddersfield is more of a possibility as that will be upgraded soon but hard to tell how it will get around Manchester without having to reverse or use the crowded Castlefield Corridor. The solution I can think of is to use the Chat Moss line and serve Victoria then on to Huddersfield

Or reverse at Piccadilly and pretend to be an NPR service.

 

[Harpo]

But after axing the service (for the second time) recently, what incentive is there to restart it?

Through Shrewsbury services have ceased at least three or four times times (BR, WSMR, Avanti).

Could there be a more efficient way of running it under GBR, i.e. have the service double up as the 2nd train in each hour (every other hour, perhaps, so one train in four) from Shrewsbury-Birmingham

I firmly believe that any long term success for a direct Shrewsbury to London has to be based on avoiding the West Midlands to achieve major journey time reductions that will grow the market.

See my earlier thoughts about Mid Wales/Aberystwyth. (Post #10)

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Through Shrewsbury services have ceased at least three or four times times (BR, WSMR, Avanti).
I firmly believe that any long term success for a direct Shrewsbury to London has to be based on avoiding the West Midlands to achieve major journey time reductions that will grow the market.
See my earlier thoughts about Mid Wales/Aberystwyth. (Post #10)

Open access doesn't count, as there aren't spare paths into Euston.
Via Crewe, joining up to other bi-mode services, would be fine (but won't work on HS2 because bi-modes are not in the plan - Chester has the same problem).
Nobody is going to reopen Wellington-Stafford.

 

[cle]

I just don't think Shrewsbury is a worthwhile market for services beyond a peak up and return.

To me, new routes should be additional calls based on frequency increases - perfect examples being Liverpool South Parkway and Hartford. Congleton could be a future addition, etc. - new markets per se.

Now they have bi-modes, there are more possibilities, but there are only so many electric routes unserved.

 

[The Planner]

I just don't think Shrewsbury is a worthwhile market for services beyond a peak up and return.

To me, new routes should be additional calls based on frequency increases - perfect examples being Liverpool South Parkway and Hartford. Congleton could be a future addition, etc. - new markets per se.

Now they have bi-modes, there are more possibilities, but there are only so many electric routes unserved.

Congleton would added back to XC more than a London route, and that is doubtful in itself anyway.

 

[Islandexpress]

You'd either need to use 805s (of which there are limited numbers) or electrify the fast lines from King's Norton to Longbridge to serve Bromsgrove. Also platforms at Bromsgrove are likely to be too short for anything longer than an 805 anyway. Huddersfield is more of a possibility as that will be upgraded soon but hard to tell how it will get around Manchester without having to reverse or use the crowded Castlefield Corridor. The solution I can think of is to use the Chat Moss line and serve Victoria then on to Huddersfield

Are they still planning on electrifying Stockport to Stalybridge, if so a Euston - midlands - Stockport - Stalybridge - Huddersfield service sounds like fun! Would this be quick than the reverse at Leeds with LNER that never happened? Could even Denton become an East Manchester / M60 parkway!?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Bringing back the "Clansman" (Euston to Inverness) would certainly be interesting... I doubt it would keep the name though!

Surprised that Huddersfield via the WCML is so popular, when an ECML service would be the more obvious way of serving the town. An ECML would be able to go all electric sooner too. Turning back a service from the west will be trickier than from the east with the new layout too- from the west you'd probably have to run to Hillhouse sidings.

For a couple of leftfield suggestions, how about Southport via Wigan? Or even Birkenhead via Chester? The latter could split from a Holyhead run.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Jan 2026 ==

South of London? Unlikely any paths free via Kensington Olympia and Gatwick anymore, but Brighton would be great for restoring direct connections to from the north west. Only good for 805s unless Hitachi have a 3rd rail module for their 800s.

Now there's a thought... Couple it with my Birkenhead suggestion and we can have a Brighton to New Brighton service! If people are worried about the awkward reversal just send it round the Liverpool loop- an 805 will fit, right?

 

[Peter0124]

Lumo could extend one of their Stirling services per day up to Aberdeen or Inverness as they are using 222s on the route? Inverness most likely as its more direct.

 

[Harpo]

Nobody is going to reopen Wellington-Stafford.

Agreed. I’m suggesting Oxley Chord.

 

[cle]

Bringing back the "Clansman" (Euston to Inverness) would certainly be interesting... I doubt it would keep the name though!

I would think a second Kings X service would be better.

Lumo could extend one of their Stirling services per day up to Aberdeen or Inverness as they are using 222s on the route? Inverness most likely as its more direct.

That said, if they could swing it - could be interesting, and at 1tpd today (less the Sleeper) - it's hardly a raid. Could build out a bigger non-Central Belt Scottish business, and almost reposition themselves as an indie Scotland-focused operation overall - with that broader reach.