Holyhead port damaged again

[AlastairFraser]

What on earth gives you that idea?

Having spent the last couple of years dropping and picking up trailers from ports (including Holyhead on a fairly regular basis), I can assure you that there are plenty of UK products being transported to Ireland on the ferries - hauliers aren't just sending empty trailers across and bringing back full ones.

Indeed. Ireland is our 6th biggest trade partner for exports I believe.
Billions of British products pass through Holyhead and we can't afford for it to be unavailable for prolonged periods of time.
The main alternative for the cities of the North is Liverpool, and the crossing takes much longer. Lost productivity and increased costs.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Holyhead-Dublin traffic also serves Northern Ireland, so it's not simply a Republic problem.
Not everything for NI goes via Cairnryan/Birkenhead.

 

[AlastairFraser]

Holyhead-Dublin traffic also serves Northern Ireland, so it's not simply a Republic problem.
Not everything for NI goes via Cairnryan/Birkenhead.

Indeed, although it's a bit more complicated that it used to be since Brexit (and don't forget the existence of Heysham to Warrenpoint for NI freight too).

 

[Trainbike46]

Indeed, although it's a bit more complicated that it used to be since Brexit (and don't forget the existence of Heysham to Warrenpoint for NI freight too).

And Heysham-Belfast Stena freight service, which shares the Liverpool terminal in Belfast, though it has its own berth.

Seriously though, between two Berths in Holyhead (when the frequency can be maintained with one by retiming some ferries), and the many alternative routes*, I think there's probably plenty resilience provided all parties act reasonable (unlike P&O a few years ago).

*At least the below, I may have missed some:
-Rosslare-Fishguard/Pembroke/Cherbourg
-Cork-Roscoff
-Dublin-Cherbourg/Birkenhead
-Warrenpoint-Heysham
-Belfast-Birkenhead/Heysham/Cairnryan
-Larne-Cairnryan
-and technically you can go via the Isle of Man as well

 

[AlastairFraser]

And Heysham-Belfast Stena freight service, which shares the Liverpool terminal in Belfast, though it has its own berth.

Seriously though, between two Berths in Holyhead (when the frequency can be maintained with one by retiming some ferries), and the many alternative routes*, I think there's probably plenty resilience provided all parties act reasonable (unlike P&O a few years ago).

*At least the below, I may have missed some:
-Rosslare-Fishguard/Pembroke/Cherbourg
-Cork-Roscoff
-Dublin-Cherbourg/Birkenhead
-Warrenpoint-Heysham
-Belfast-Birkenhead/Heysham/Cairnryan
-Larne-Cairnryan
-and technically you can go via the Isle of Man as well

The real reason Holyhead is so busy because there are lots of goods coming from the Northern/Midlands metropolitan areas that are stocked in Irish supermarkets and other shops.
The French routes aren't really useful for this since Brexit as they have to cross a customs border several times if routed that way from Britain.
The routes via Scotland are useful for Scottish trade and trade from the northern end of the North West heading to the north/central parts of the Republic as well as NI, but the bulk of the Republic's population is much closer to Dublin.

So you can narrow those practical backup routes down to Fishguard/Pembroke to Rosslare, Birkenhead to Dublin, Heysham to Warrenpoint, Heysham to Belfast, and Birkenhead to Belfast.
Most of these routes also have a significantly longer overall journey time, so still impact greatly on productivity and costs of haulage for businesses.

Perhaps we should consider funding an alternative berth to be used in emergencies at the Port of Mostyn on Deeside.
It's close to the A55, and would be easy for existing haulage operators to divert to quickly, if there was an incident.
Birkenhead is also useful, but it's already well used, so additional relief sailings have to fit into the existing schedule.
The Port of Mostyn is already well used for maritime operations in the renewable industry, so it wouldn't totally rely on government support for the ongoing maintenance of an emergency berth.

 

[AndrewE]

a) is mostyn an all-states-of-the-tide port? There seems to be a lot of bare sand around it most of the time... I don't know that the windfarm building/maintainance ships are anything like as big as a ferry!
b) how much extra time would getting there add to an Irish sea crossing? (with voyage time/ship turnround and hence capacity in mind)

 

[AlastairFraser]

a) is mostyn an all-states-of-the-tide port? There seems to be a lot of bare sand around it most of the time... I don't know that the windfarm building/maintainance ships are anything like as big as a ferry!
b) how much extra time would getting there add to an Irish sea crossing? (with voyage time/ship turnround and hence capacity in mind)

A) I think it it tidal at the moment, but they have expansion plans submitted in 2023 that show a desire to expand, which may include the ability to take departures/arrivals 24/7.
It's important to note they had a Dublin sailing until 2004, so it's not a completely new plan.

B) It's about an hour and a half east of Holyhead (closer to most of the markets), but it would likely add 2-3 hours to sailing times. So overall about 1-2 hours extra, but that's better than the current 8 hours from Birkenhead to Dublin on the goods sailings, or the additional 2-3 hours to reach other ports (Pembroke/Fishguard) from the origin points of most of the cargo.
With Heysham to Warrenpoint, you have to factor in the 10 hour journey time (according to the operator) and onward journey times to major markets in the Republic.

 

[replacementbus]

The real reason Holyhead is so busy because there are lots of goods coming from the Northern/Midlands metropolitan areas that are stocked in Irish supermarkets and other shops.
The French routes aren't really useful for this since Brexit as they have to cross a customs border several times if routed that way from Britain.
The routes via Scotland are useful for Scottish trade and trade from the northern end of the North West heading to the north/central parts of the Republic as well as NI, but the bulk of the Republic's population is much closer to Dublin.

So you can narrow those practical backup routes down to Fishguard/Pembroke to Rosslare, Birkenhead to Dublin, Heysham to Warrenpoint, Heysham to Belfast, and Birkenhead to Belfast.
Most of these routes also have a significantly longer overall journey time, so still impact greatly on productivity and costs of haulage for businesses.

Perhaps we should consider funding an alternative berth to be used in emergencies at the Port of Mostyn on Deeside.
It's close to the A55, and would be easy for existing haulage operators to divert to quickly, if there was an incident.
Birkenhead is also useful, but it's already well used, so additional relief sailings have to fit into the existing schedule.
The Port of Mostyn is already well used for maritime operations in the renewable industry, so it wouldn't totally rely on government support for the ongoing maintenance of an emergency berth.

The other thing worth mentioning here is that Ireland's road and rail network mainly fans out from Dublin and Belfast, with quite poor connections between. If a truck from the English Midlands needs to get to the Irish midlands via a Rosslare crossing, thats a lot of extra road miles. Rail freight from Rosslare is (as far as I know) non-existent, and the line west is currently mothballed.

 

[AlastairFraser]

The other thing worth mentioning here is that Ireland's road and rail network mainly fans out from Dublin and Belfast, with quite poor connections between. If a truck from the English Midlands needs to get to the Irish midlands via a Rosslare crossing, thats a lot of extra road miles. Rail freight from Rosslare is (as far as I know) non-existent, and the line west is currently mothballed.

Indeed, even if the goods cross on an unaccompanied trailer, it's still additional hours for haulage companies and the tachometer restrictions make schedule reliability very very important.

 

[90019]

Indeed, even if the goods cross on an unaccompanied trailer, it's still additional hours for haulage companies and the tachometer restrictions make schedule reliability very very important.

Honestly, with how the haulage industry runs, it's not all that much different as a lot of the unaccompanied trailers are dropped at the port in the afternoon or early evening and not picked up at the other end until the morning, so the shorter sailing time doesn't really change much.

For the midnight arrivals at Holyhead, the majority of the trailers sit in the port until the morning, while the lorries that have travelled across can mostly be found parked up on the A55 as the sailing isn't long enough for a daily rest period, unlike the crossings to Liverpool.

 

[AlastairFraser]

Honestly, with how the haulage industry runs, it's not all that much different as a lot of the unaccompanied trailers are dropped at the port in the afternoon or early evening and not picked up at the other end until the morning, so the shorter sailing time doesn't really change much.

For the midnight arrivals at Holyhead, the majority of the trailers sit in the port until the morning, while the lorries that have travelled across can mostly be found parked up on the A55 as the sailing isn't long enough for a daily rest period, unlike the crossings to Liverpool.

I guess it depends on where your cargo originates and terminates. You're right about unaccompanied trailers, but a lot of daily cross-Irish sea export route depend on that Dublin timings.
E.g. McVities exports a fair bit to the Irish market and they have a large factory in Burbage, south Manchester.
As a HGV driver in both the UK and Republic, I believe you have 9 hours of driving time, minus the 45 min mandatory break (which can be partly taken on the ship - I used to work in logistics and I believe we had to take a 15 min break after a certain time, which gave us extra time after the 4.5 hour driving time before the first mandatory break).
McVities to Holyhead Port is about 2hr30 - 2hr45 in a HGV.
Add check in time (60 mins for Stena Line at Holyhead apparently), journey time of approx. 3.5 hours (including the mandatory break), which gives you at least 1.5 hours of driving time left after the journey.
That will get you to anywhere within about 100km of Dublin Port usually.
Dunnes Stores is a major Irish supermarket chain, and their biggest distribution centre is at Damastown Business Park, 30 mins away from Dublin Port.

So a run like Greater Manchester to the Dublin area and an overnight layover is easily doable with Holyhead open, even more so for any factories or industries exporting to the east coast of Ireland in the Merseyside/Deeside/Cheshire areas.