Real time info for tight Welwyn North connection

[gaj2002]

Hi, since the contactless area was expanded further north, I have found this to be the best commuting option for me.

0740 Welwyn Garden City to Cambridge, alight Welwyn North 0742
0744 Welwyn North to London Kings Cross, arrives 0803

(Compares very well to 0738 Welwyn Garden City to London Kings Cross, arrives 0810.)

However clearly there is a risk that the northbound train is delayed (particularly if it is held to let another northbound train over the Digswell viaduct) so I've been checking Real Time Trains, if I can see a train which is likely to cause a problem then I just go southbound on the 0738 to London Kings Cross or the 0740 to Moorgate.

This has been working pretty well until yesterday when the 0724 Kings Cross to Kings Lynn service was only slightly late (about 45 seconds I think) passing Hatfield, which should be ok, but this became +5 minutes late passing Welwyn Garden City. (Although curiously if I check Real Time Trains now it says +12 minutes which I'm pretty sure was not what happened? Or maybe the +5 was anticipated but it turned into +12 and the 0740 was allowed to go over the viaduct when that became apparent.) Anyway we were delayed a few minutes although fortunately I still made the connection.

So I was wondering if anyone could help me with

- why would that train have been so severely delayed on the fast line between Hatfield and Welwyn Garden City?
- is there any way of investigating further to check nothing will delay the 0740 Welwyn Garden City to Welwyn North? As I could see the Kings Lynn train had performed adequately as far as Hatfield then it seemed safe enough to try that connection, although I was lucky to get away with it

Many thanks

 

[Ian Hardy]

I asume that you have a ticket that is valid for doubling back.

 

[gaj2002]

I asume that you have a ticket that is valid for doubling back.

Prior to mid-December 2025, the contactless area went no further north than Welwyn Garden City.

Since then, it now goes further north as far as Hitchin on the main line and Baldock on the Kings Lynn line.

So I believe it is acceptable to tap in at Welwyn Garden City and then take any route thereafter (as long as I don't leave the contactless area), including the one I have been taking.

On the way home I typically use paper carnet tickets which would not be valid via Welwyn North and therefore I do not go via Welwyn North.

 

[gazthomas]

Deleted

 

[gaj2002]

@gaj2002 have a look at point 3.16 in the Ts and Cs relating to Oyster use on rail. I'm not sure what you're doing is valid?

https://content.tfl.gov.uk/oyster-conditions-of-use-on-national-rail-services.pdf

Hi, that document is for Oyster rather than Contactless. In any event point 3.16 appears to deal with break of journey and leaving stations, neither of which is happening in this case.

In any event there are definitely ways of buying valid tickets for this intended journey (such as a flexi-season between Welwyn North and Welwyn Garden City, activated day by day depending on choice of route, additionally to my Welwyn Garden City to London ticket arrangements), I was hoping to get a response on the info / timing point to understand whether I will make the connection or not.

 

[Magdalia]

- why would that train have been so severely delayed on the fast line between Hatfield and Welwyn Garden City?

There are various possibilities that could require the driver to stop the train, including:

• passenger communication activation
• signal fault
• overhead line fault*
• train fault*
• obstruction on the line

*There is a neutral section in the overhead line between Hatfield and Welwyn Garden City, a fault on the overhead line or the train could lead to the pantograph being lowered.

 

[gaj2002]

There are various possibilities that could require the driver to stop the train, including:

• passenger communication activation
• signal fault
• overhead line fault*
• train fault*
• obstruction on the line

*There is a neutral section in the overhead line between Hatfield and Welwyn Garden City, a fault on the overhead line or the train could lead to the pantograph being lowered.

Ok so I think you're saying there is always some chance of a delay hitting right at the last moment so I run the risk of that happening if I choose to travel by that route!

The other thing I can do is just look for that train approaching to make sure it is indeed approaching...

 

[Wandering Pom]

If you want to monitor train positions in real time, I'd suggest the maps at either OpenTrainTimes (https://www.opentraintimes.com/maps/signalling/ecm1 is the one covering the Welwyn area) or Traksy (https://traksy.uk/live/M+19+WLWYNGC for the Welwyn area). It's probably easiest to look up the four-character "headcode" for each train in Realtime Trains detailed mode, so you can then see what to look out for: e.g. 2C06 is the 0740 from WGC, while 1T08 is the King's Cross - King's Lynn due past at 0739.

 

[gaj2002]

If you want to monitor train positions in real time, I'd suggest the maps at either OpenTrainTimes (https://www.opentraintimes.com/maps/signalling/ecm1 is the one covering the Welwyn area) or Traksy (https://traksy.uk/live/M+19+WLWYNGC for the Welwyn area). It's probably easiest to look up the four-character "headcode" for each train in Realtime Trains detailed mode, so you can then see what to look out for: e.g. 2C06 is the 0740 from WGC, while 1T08 is the King's Cross - King's Lynn due past at 0739.

Ok thanks

 

[littledude]

Hi, since the contactless area was expanded further north, I have found this to be the best commuting option for me.

0740 Welwyn Garden City to Cambridge, alight Welwyn North 0742
0744 Welwyn North to London Kings Cross, arrives 0803

(Compares very well to 0738 Welwyn Garden City to London Kings Cross, arrives 0810.)

However clearly there is a risk that the northbound train is delayed (particularly if it is held to let another northbound train over the Digswell viaduct) so I've been checking Real Time Trains, if I can see a train which is likely to cause a problem then I just go southbound on the 0738 to London Kings Cross or the 0740 to Moorgate.

This has been working pretty well until yesterday when the 0724 Kings Cross to Kings Lynn service was only slightly late (about 45 seconds I think) passing Hatfield, which should be ok, but this became +5 minutes late passing Welwyn Garden City. (Although curiously if I check Real Time Trains now it says +12 minutes which I'm pretty sure was not what happened? Or maybe the +5 was anticipated but it turned into +12 and the 0740 was allowed to go over the viaduct when that became apparent.) Anyway we were delayed a few minutes although fortunately I still made the connection.

So I was wondering if anyone could help me with

- why would that train have been so severely delayed on the fast line between Hatfield and Welwyn Garden City?
- is there any way of investigating further to check nothing will delay the 0740 Welwyn Garden City to Welwyn North? As I could see the Kings Lynn train had performed adequately as far as Hatfield then it seemed safe enough to try that connection, although I was lucky to get away with it

Many thanks

For the sake of a 7 minute later arrival, is it even worth worrying about?

 

[Watershed]

For the sake of a 7 minute later arrival, is it even worth worrying about?

The 07:44 runs non-stop to Kings Cross so I can see the attraction in that vs an all-shacks stopper.

 

[gaj2002]

For the sake of a 7 minute later arrival, is it even worth worrying about?

Definitely… we will have a new arrival starting nursery later in the year and I will find it very difficult to do 7.30am drop-off and get the 0738 southbound, it’s more realistic to catch either the 0740 northbound to double-back or 0740 stopper to Moorgate.

Also it’s another good option when the 0738 is delayed, to be fair its punctuality has probably been better than the previous 0751 service, but it was seven minutes late one day this week.

Also the doubling back thing avoids catching up to a stopper on the slow line. To be fair both the 0738 from Welwyn Garden City and the 0740 from Welwyn North have averaged 3.5 minutes late in the two weeks we have had of this timetable… but that doesn’t allow for the fact the choice helps me pick whichever one isn’t late.

 

[Failed Unit]

For the sake of a 7 minute later arrival, is it even worth worrying about?

If you avoid a class 700. Yes

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Jan 2026 ==

There are various possibilities that could require the driver to stop the train, including:

• passenger communication activation
• signal fault
• overhead line fault*
• train fault*
• obstruction on the line

*There is a neutral section in the overhead line between Hatfield and Welwyn Garden City, a fault on the overhead line or the train could lead to the pantograph being lowered.

If I have got my days correct it was a passenger communication activation.

The Kings Lynn train made an additional stop at Welwyn Garden City. Assume to deal with the situation on board.

 

[Kite159]

Wouldn't the biggest issue be potentially getting a seat on the train which is nonstop Welwyn North to London considering it's come from Cambridge?

 

[Failed Unit]

I have done this before in the old timetable going north (but only if a service was cancelled). To me the whole reward versus risk thing comes into play. Miss the connection and instead of saving 5 minutes, you lose 25.

Going south another one you see people at WGC do is catch the 0800 WGC - Sevenoaks rather then the 0753 Moorgate service (which you grab at Finsbury Park) - To me the 7 mins saving isn’t worth the changing of trains or standing from Finsbury Park but works for some.

The northbound services at WGC have a long wait, the Southbounds are nearly always late (waiting for others to pass at the top of the 4 track section). Wouldn’t no it myself for that reason. Makes the connection safer as services Southbound at Welwyn North are rarely on time.

 

[gaj2002]

Wouldn't the biggest issue be potentially getting a seat on the train which is nonstop Welwyn North to London considering it's come from Cambridge?

Apparently not - easily got a seat every day so far

Which of course makes me think was it necessary to provide all these extra services in the Thameslink project and consequently take away the fast service from Welwyn Garden City in peak times!

 

[Failed Unit]

Apparently not - easily got a seat every day so far

Which of course makes me think was it necessary to provide all these extra services in the Thameslink project and consequently take away the fast service from Welwyn Garden City in peak times!

I would love to know who lives at Digswell, to me stopping it at the busier Welwyn Garden City would make much more sense. Do you know if the WGC -Kings Cross services are busy, I don’t use them anymore since the timetable change.

 

[gaj2002]

I have done this before in the old timetable going north (but only if a service was cancelled). To me the whole reward versus risk thing comes into play. Miss the connection and instead of saving 5 minutes, you lose 25.

Going south another one you see people at WGC do is catch the 0800 WGC - Sevenoaks rather then the 0753 Moorgate service (which you grab at Finsbury Park) - To me the 7 mins saving isn’t worth the changing of trains or standing from Finsbury Park but works for some.

The northbound services at WGC have a long wait, the Southbounds are nearly always late (waiting for others to pass at the top of the 4 track section). Wouldn’t no it myself for that reason. Makes the connection safer as services Southbound at Welwyn North are rarely on time.

It's very much personal choice but I would do the sort of thing you describe - the benefit really is the flexibility to stay on and swap to the tube at Farringdon if the connection doesn't work.

Similarly no-one is saying I would double back every day, it's just an option for when it works and it suits me.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Jan 2026 ==

If you avoid a class 700. Yes

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Jan 2026 ==


If I have got my days correct it was a passenger communication activation.

The Kings Lynn train made an additional stop at Welwyn Garden City. Assume to deal with the situation on board.

Ok thanks, so I think therefore my system of checking that the 0740 should go over the viaduct is probably 99% ok, as the chance of something like that happening at the absolute worst moment (just when/before I'm committing myself to the 0740) is pretty low. Although clearly it did happen that day!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Jan 2026 ==

I would love to know who lives at Digswell, to me stopping it at the busier Welwyn Garden City would make much more sense. Do you know if the WGC -Kings Cross services are busy, I don’t use them anymore since the timetable change.

Sadly there are loads of reasons why they do it like this - which have been explained to me by various users of this forum

There is only one track in each direction from just north of Welwyn Garden City to just south of Knebworth, this creates a bottleneck and it means every train which comes over Digswell Viaduct to Welwyn Garden City has already used up one path on the fast line. To bring it over to Platform 2 at Welwyn Garden City and then reintegrate it back onto the fast line would use up another path, and it's probably more difficult than that because it's trying to reintegrate it at speed to avoid losing time.

You can easily get seats, they're probably slightly less busy than before.