Avanti West Coast via Settle (for WCML Bridge replacement next January?)

[jimlad888]

It’s interesting reading others’ experiences with these services. Kudos to Avanti - they’re giving it a go. My view is a little longer term investment in the diversionary approach could go a long way. True route learning, fix the unit teething issues and you could be onto something. Yes it’s slow but let’s face it remarkable given the contrast between the old and new railway - semaphore signalling in places with traction barely a few months old…

 

[Merle Haggard]

NR pay for it anyway and that solution is always going to shift more people than an hourly diversion.

There were 5 Avanti and 3 LNw coaches per hour. Assuming 50 seats per coach that 400 passengers per hour.. I think s single 805 can carry about 300 though that includes First. The Chiltern shuttles were 3 x 221 so 3x805 seems possible, but 2x805 would provide more capacity than the coaches.

Presumably NR recover their RRB costs either through increased access charges or by requesting the taxpayer to stump up more. I can't see how they can just disappear.

 

[dave59]

It’s interesting reading others’ experiences with these services. Kudos to Avanti - they’re giving it a go. My view is a little longer term investment in the diversionary approach could go a long way. True route learning, fix the unit teething issues and you could be onto something. Yes it’s slow but let’s face it remarkable given the contrast between the old and new railway - semaphore signalling in places with traction barely a few months old…

Are there issues with the signalling? The traction isn't tried and tested on other 80x variants? Maybe these engines just don't suit idling about and need a good thrash.

 

[Krokodil]

What's the reliability like with the units on North Wales and, if it's a lot better, what makes these services any different?

They're better of late but when they were first introduced they were conking out left, right and centre.

 

[The Planner]

There were 5 Avanti and 3 LNw coaches per hour. Assuming 50 seats per coach that 400 passengers per hour.. I think s single 805 can carry about 300 though that includes First. The Chiltern shuttles were 3 x 221 so 3x805 seems possible, but 2x805 would provide more capacity than the coaches.

Presumably NR recover their RRB costs either through increased access charges or by requesting the taxpayer to stump up more. I can't see how they can just disappear.

But that trade off is a 15 car train once an hour vs more frequent shorter trains and a bus. People want frequency as well as wanting to stay on a train. TOCs pay an access charge supplement to cover compensation that NR pays them for planned disruption.

 

[mmh]

Yes it’s slow but let’s face it remarkable given the contrast between the old and new railway - semaphore signalling in places with traction barely a few months old…

Happens as a matter of course though for the same trains in North Wales

 

[Bahnopa]

I have just had an excellent day out via the Avanti diversions - a day which could have turned to disaster if I had left home later!

I left home here in York at 8.30 to Newcastle - LNER Azuma, on time, then with a Northern 156 to Carlisle (I was one of the 5 passengers after Hexham!) and then the 11.27 Avanti to Preston, which was 9 minutes down leaving and 20 minutes down on arrival in Preston.

The train was moderately full and I was pleased to hear announcements from the train crew about what to look out for on the way to Settle.

It was then in Preston that I discovered that the following Avanti diversion, which I had originally intended to catch, had been cancelled - as had the return from Preston.

My TP Express train from Preston to Manchester at 14.48 was diverted via Wigan NW and missed out Bolton. Another bonus!

I got back to York as planned and on time. Thank you LNER, Northern, Avanti and TP Express!

 

[voyagerdude220]

Most of the failures I have seen are related to frozen toilets.

I'm wondering why the 805s have had issues with the toilets freezing on the 805 which is stabled overnight at Carlisle when they do so all the time at Holyhead.

 

[route101]

Looking at doing the diversion this Saturday from Glasgow. Glasgow to Preston Day Return ticket. I may come back via York but that means adifferent ticket.

 

[Amlag]

The whole (only) two hrly planned frequency special timetable of these Avanti West Coast non stop trains between Preston and Carlisle has regrettably been a shambles on almost every day so far.
I have personally travelled on some of these trains and have also remotely monitored these trains each day.
The station and train staff on the ground /sharp end who have to deal with the far too often disrupted and cancelled planned journeys of several hundred passengers each day and also the backroom Control / Resource managers and supervisors are dismayed and demoralised at the failure to provide reliable trains to work these services. Do these trains even have a travelling fitter / technician?

One wonders what improvement actions have been taken by the current boss of Avanti WC (Andy Mellors of proven traction engineering experience when with FGW some years ago)

The NR infrastructure and operational performance so far seems to have been generally excellent from the approx mostly 14 miles of 60 years or so old jointed, but deferred for renewal, track between Clitheroe and Hellifield (in that direction) the elderly but very reliable mechanical signalling on the S&C maintained and worked by experienced and conscientious railway staff.
The quality of ride between Hellifield and the outskirts of Carlisle on the CWR installed throughout on this double line now several years ago, is really excellent ..some would say not surprising seeing its use these days is normally by only a handful of DMUs and a couple of freights each way a day.

The S&C was saved from closure for good reasons including its usefulness as a diversionary route to the West Coast Line and acknowledgement that Bustitution of rail passengers should be a last resort.

 

[voyagerdude220]

This morning's 1Z84 04:59 Crewe to Carlisle was wrongly routed at Daisyfield Junction. (The Driver(s) didn't take the route offered) Maybe the Signaller was amazed at it actually running.

 

[D6130]

Are there issues with the signalling? The traction isn't tried and tested on other 80x variants? Maybe these engines just don't suit idling about and need a good thrash.

Need a good thrash? Sixteen miles of 1 in 100 up the bank from Settle Junction to Blea Moor in the Northbound direction....and a similar distance on a similar gradient from Appleby to Ais Gill summit in the Southbound direction. Not forgetting the approximately 1 in 70 from Whalley viaduct up to Wilpshire summit on the Up.

 

[38Cto15E]

Out of my 4 trips this week, I have 3 lots of Delay Repay coming back to me and even the 4th service had an out of service disabled toilet.
The on board team were excellent though.
Perhaps we should have had a couple of kettles out on the S&C to run a reliable service, also I think EMR are having plenty of problems with their newer 810's..

 

[JTR60]

Unfortunately it looks like another bad day, so far every service has been cancelled. The next hope for a train is the 12.07 off Preston.

 

[tram21]

Unfortunately it looks like another bad day, so far every service has been cancelled. The next hope for a train is the 12.07 off Preston.

I wonder if that's because of the snow/ severe weather?

The 0909 from Crewe made it to Preston.

*Edit* Journey Check says they are all due to train faults!

 

[voyagerdude220]

I wonder if that's because of the snow/ severe weather?

The 0909 from Crewe made it to Preston.

I don't know about the earlier diversions, but the 09:09 from Crewe terminated at Preston because of a Generator Unit defect.

 

[Uk02048]

I don't know about the earlier diversions, but the 09:09 from Crewe terminated at Preston because of a Generator Unit defect.

I have a mate in Skipton and it's clear there and around. With the Evero they dont build them like they used to i guess. I wonder what a diesel/bi 390 type model would have been like - those 805/7's seem flimsy generally.

 

[Carlisle]

I have a mate in Skipton and it's clear there and around. With the Evero they dont build them like they used to

Do LNERs IETs have an equally poor reliability record on the likely more challenging Highland Mainline?

 

[Northerngirl]

I don't know about the earlier diversions, but the 09:09 from Crewe terminated at Preston because of a Generator Unit defect.

Can corroborate this, currently sat next to it waiting for the 1207, they seem to be rebooting it so maybe coupling the 2 (atleast i hope or its going to be quite cozy)

 

[raveon]

This really is a poor show from Avanti. Maybe next time they would be better off leaving the Everos on North Wales coast duties and finding something that can actually handle the grades between Preston & Carlisle with a bit of cold / winter weather thrown in (most likely an RRB )

 

[FrontSideBus]

They'd have been better off hiring some Mk 2's and Class 47's from West Coast Railways!

 

[31160]

They'd have been better off hiring some Mk 2's and Class 47's from West Coast Railways!

Oh now there's no need to panic, things aren't THAT bad

 

[BPN2022]

Not sure if already mentioned but Avanti are stabling 2 units in the platforms at Blackpool North overnight with late arrivals and early departures until the 14th Jan

 

[Segedunum]

First one this morning from Carlisle hasn't operated - thankfully the 0917 is 10 carriages and has departed close enough to time!

 

[JTR60]

Today is looking more promising

 

[Carlisle]

That’d have been expected due to the weekend M6 closure meaning replacement busses venturing south of Penrith take considerably longer .

 

[Iskra]

Would class 57’s dragging Pendo’s have done any better? Presumably slower, but less chance of frozen toilets?

 

[dk1]

Would class 57’s dragging Pendo’s have done any better? Presumably slower, but less chance of frozen toilets?

Avanti would have just used Voyagers rather than 57s.

 

[Iskra]

Avanti would have just used Voyagers rather than 57s.

They don’t have any?

 

[dk1]

They don’t have any?

I mean rather than 57 dragging before the 805s arrived. Does Avanti still use the 57s on a hire in basis for Thunderbird duties? I know their own drivers at Preston signed them under Virgin ownership but thought that had all elapsed along with route signing the S&C.