I do believe, from memory that the sausage rolls LNER used, were not precooked and took about 20 minutes to cook.
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LNERs binned sausage rolls served to rail passengers
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Halwynd
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I'll never again look at a railway sausage roll in quite the same way... 
jumble
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Many years ago I was a washer upper in a pub that was detached from a very posh co-owned restaurant.
I went to the restaurant to get some soup. A chef walked past and dropped a whole tray of cooked chickens on the floor. He then picked them up and put them in the bin.
( I am telling porkies . Like hell he did They went straight back on the tray)
As far as sell by dates are concerned, I am always childishly amused to buy Avocados on yellow sticker that would break my teeth if I tried to eat them the same or next day
Halwynd
Member
To be honest it would be naive to think this sort of thing doesn't go on a lot more that ever comes to light.
How many people would be brave enough to send a sub-standard meal back in a restaurant and request a replacement?
What's worse is when staff think its a all a jolly jape and laughter accompanies the incident - what utter contemp for their customers. Thankfully in this case, one LNER staff member was a credit to his or her employer and reported the incident.
Many years ago I remember having bangers, mash and onion gravy on a National Express East Coast service when it was a paid-for service. It seemed very nice, if perhaps not very hot. By the time I reached Edinburgh I'd begun to get stomach cramps and had to fly to the toilets where I remained for quite a time. Probably just not well-cooked, but who knows?
These days the only food I trust is that which I've bought and cooked myself.
tfw756rider
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What was the original title?
Halwynd
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trainstrainstr
Member
You should all go look at the "What Do they Know" website, to see the requests a “Peter Anthony” submitted to LNER under the Freedom of Information (FOI) Act.
There is a distinct pattern to those FOI requests.
Moderator note: please edit this post, to include a link and quote, as per forum rules
There is a distinct pattern to those FOI requests.
Moderator note: please edit this post, to include a link and quote, as per forum rules
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(Link summarises eight FOI requests, seven made to DfT Operator Limited or LNER about LNER, including two about food hygiene, two about customer experience and one about settlement agreements.)
trainstrainstr
Member
I assume (maybe ignorantly) that the reason this is in the news is that tribunal results are published? Press got a hold of it easily and asked LNER for comment?
If I had served sausage rolls out of a bin and been let go, I don’t think I’d dare risk the public humiliation. So in that case I think I feel sorry for the individual - disregarding the reason for being sacked, he’s all over the news - full name. Isn’t this just really bad for someone’s mental health? Or am I being too nice.
If I had served sausage rolls out of a bin and been let go, I don’t think I’d dare risk the public humiliation. So in that case I think I feel sorry for the individual - disregarding the reason for being sacked, he’s all over the news - full name. Isn’t this just really bad for someone’s mental health? Or am I being too nice.
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Tribunal hearings themselves are also usually public, so the press can even watch the hearing live if they wish!
Well, there's nothing forcing you to go to tribunal, and indeed if you know you cocked up, it's probably not a good idea to risk it!
That said, one does have to wonder whether he'd been given bad advice; maybe the union rep made it seem like it'd be an easy win, and didn't fully warn him that all the details would be made public. It also does seem like he'd been subjected to stressful treatment by LNER in the lead-up to the incident, so really this might be one of those sad situations where nobody really wins...
Halwynd
Member
He knew his name would be made public when he went to a tribunal - he had a choice.
I think my sympathies would have been with anyone suffering illness as a result of his actions.
43096
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He's also now at risk of making himself unemployable in (at least) catering/hospitality. A quick search of the name and previous employer by a potential future employer will very quickly reveal all.
FOI requests can be made for many reasons, and seeking information ahead of disciplinary or tribunal hearings is not inherently unreasonable.
Deepgreen
Established Member
Exactly so! The sheer waste that goes on is scandalous. I don't know the dates, etc., involved in this case, though.
A Summer job I did at Wetherspoons straight out of school at the age of 18 was quite eye-opening.
This sort of stuff goes on all the time in restaurants, there will only be very few cases that become public.
At Wetherspoons, we would quite often go scrounging around the stuff we chucked out the day before, because we had now run out of it.
Most of the meals were also cooked first thing in the morning and left in storage, just re-heated throughout the day as and when someone ordered one.
This sort of stuff goes on all the time in restaurants, there will only be very few cases that become public.
At Wetherspoons, we would quite often go scrounging around the stuff we chucked out the day before, because we had now run out of it.
Most of the meals were also cooked first thing in the morning and left in storage, just re-heated throughout the day as and when someone ordered one.
I have to clarify here - you didn't go scrounging through general waste bins did you?
I think it's one thing to put something aside for disposal in a specific food waste disposal bag because it has past a best before date, and then actually cook it; and a completely different thing to cook a food item, put it into a general waste bin which could contain all sorts of rubbish, then take it out and reheat it.
I don't believe either is acceptable but I also wouldn't put them on quite the same level.
Tetchytyke
Veteran Member
Nothing wrong with that at all. It is standard practice when assembling a Tribunal claim that you file a DSAR (Data Subject Access Request) for everything the employer has said about you and you file an FOI request (if you are able) for their internal policies.
Use by dates are there for a reason, and the dates aren't just calculated by waving a damp finger in the air.
Same with storage times for hot and/or cold food. The limits are there for a reason, again they're not just calculated by waving a damp finger in the air.
I've no doubt that this sort of thing goes on in commercial kitchens all the time, but it is extremely dangerous. People have been jailed before for doing this sort of thing, and rightly so.
I suggest the ire is focused on the levels of ordering and stock, rather than adherence to food safety rules. Which might mean us looking closely at ourselves for our reactions when stock runs out.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
New thread to go into this: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...d-while-still-offering-people-choices.296974/
No, but nor are they a precise science. Obviously, food does not go from being perfectly safe to eat at a minute before midnight on the use by date to being deadly poison a minute after midnight. I'm pretty sure that food producers will err on the side of caution, and as such I'll happily eat pretty much anything the day after the use by date on the label.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Indeed. But if you're serving it to someone else you can't make that decision on their behalf, because regardless of actual legislation if they got sick as a result they would be able to sue you into oblivion.
Practices at home differ entirely from practices in a foodservice business. At home you can do what you want because your poor decisions only affect you - so get that sausage roll you threw away in error out of the bin if you want. If you're providing food for others you have to be spot on because it's not OK to give other people food poisoning from decisions you make on their behalf.
I don't want to go on too much of a tangent, but while I agree it is sensible to make SARs and FOI requests to gather evidence for such claims, doing them on the What Do They Know website does suggest a desire to make something public, rather than purely for compiling a case.
Totally agreed.
On the FOI point, I think this particular one should serve as a lesson: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/food_hygiene_standards
The request asks for, "the number of chilled food temperatures which have been recorded on your handover apps in the Notes Section". LNER provided this response:
Try not to be too clever with requests, as you may be wrong in an assumption!
LNER could have said zero here, based on the wording of the actual request. They did however apply some discretion to the misinformed requester, and provided the data for where it is actually logged.
But even in point number 2, the data they provide is the number of food temperatures logged. Fundamentally, the person filing this FOI request is unlikely to have wanted to know that 100k measurements had been logged. They'd have actually wanted to know something like how many logs weren't made as expected, or how many were made but were outwith the policy range, or something else. Knowing that 100k measurements were recorded over the course of a year is not really interesting information.
Basically I doubt the person filing these actually got the answer they wanted because I think their requests were poorly-worded.
It's also an easy way of making them, and takes a lot of the admin out
Agree completely - but that is a thread that runs through the entire case
Tetchytyke
Veteran Member
Of course not, and domestically you are free to make that choice for yourself; your risk, your consequences.
But this isn’t a domestic kitchen and “oh, it’ll probably be ok” isn’t acceptable.
Having given myself food poisoning once from re-heating a takeaway the next morning, weirdly I’m a lot more caution with dates now.
Sad Sprinter
Established Member
It is no surprise sandwiches on a trolley are thrown away. I’ve seen this recently and wondered what the point is. I think GWR which got rid of their buffet cars, were the ones doing this.
I’ve said before. Food on trains needs to be a single GBR product, so people know what they’re going to get on each service, which will help drive up demand.
I’ve said before. Food on trains needs to be a single GBR product, so people know what they’re going to get on each service, which will help drive up demand.
I'm not so sure I agree with this.
I actually like the approach some of the long distance operators take of sourcing from locations on their route.
On the Caledonian Sleeper, haggis neeps n tatties is popular for example. You get a taste of Scotland if you like.
I'm somebody who enjoys variety in food, and I think if the same half a dozen sandwiches are served across the network it'll get a bit boring.
ExRes
Established Member
20 years ago Midland Mainline began throwing unsold sandwiches out at the end of each day, they had previously been donated to homeless charities but, surprise surprise, those very people started with their spurious claims of feeling ill after eating them, the few ruining things for the majority as usual
dk1
Veteran Member
Always the same with the minority in life spoiling it for the majority
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