Avanti West Coast via Settle (for WCML Bridge replacement next January?)

[LNW-GW Joint]

Any news if the North Wales to London services will be suspended whilst the 805's are working on the S&C?

There are some cancellations, some trains terminate at Crewe, and there are no double sets I think.
There are still a couple of through services Euston-Chester/Holyhead.
The early Blackpool-Crewe-Euston 805 (usually combines at Crewe with another 805 from Holyhead) appears to be a 390 to Birmingham.

 

[voyagerdude220]

Apologies, a little off topic- How many 805s are there? Is it 13?

I'm trying to work out whether I've seen all of them on the S&C diversions.

Thank you.

 

[800001]

Apologies, a little off topic- How many 805s are there? Is it 13?

I'm trying to work out whether I've seen all of them on the S&C diversions.

Thank you.

Yes, 805001 to 805013.

 

[voyagerdude220]

Yes, 805001 to 805013.

Thank you.

Looks like I'm yet to see 006/008/011 although I suspect they've all been over the S&C.

 

[Krokodil]

There are some cancellations, some trains terminate at Crewe, and there are no double sets I think.
There are still a couple of through services Euston-Chester/Holyhead.

The only change directly affecting Holyhead passengers is that the morning train from Birmingham starts at Crewe instead and the evening train back terminates at Crewe.

From Wrexham the train that joins a Holyhead portion in the morning now runs an hour later and terminates at Crewe. The empties from Wrexham in the evening now run in passenger service through to Birmingham

From Chester the 09:32 and 12:32 to Euston and 16:07 from Euston are cancelled, with some short forms on their out/back workings.

 

[The Planner]

It's still bizarre. If the point of the diversion and the bus to Lockerbie(for an onward train to Glasgow) is to provide a link between NW England and Scotland, why break the connections?

The regular 5/10 car trains over S&C show there's been a serious plan to provide a decent level of train service from NW England to Carlisle. I would have thought that was with a view to providing a link on to Scotland. Maybe I'm wrong and it's simply to serve the Carlisle market?

LNER were advising not to travel via ECML today

It was never to provide a London Scotland link, as @Bald Rick notes, that is for ECML to do. It was to keep links within the NW. Breaking the connections forces people from the southern end away from using it as a journey planner won't route them that way.

What might jolt someone into raising the blanket 60mph line speed. A firework? Probably just needs a pen stroke for much of the line - or an EPS for passenger trains.

It needs a lot more than that.

 

[Sentinel]

Currently sitting on 1Z88, the 0909 from Crewe, at Preston. Passengers have been told that the front unit is being taken out of service due to no water, and all passengers are having to decamp to the other unit. So it’s 100% full in First, and of course the seat reservations aren’t working. I daren’t go and look to see how full Standard is in case someone nicks my seat!

I was on this. It wasn’t out of water; it had been stabled overnight at Carlisle and had been totally powered down. As a result, the water of the toilets froze. It should have been left with the pan up and the overhead connected.

 

[JTR60]

Thank you.

Looks like I'm yet to see 006/008/011 although I suspect they've all been over the S&C.

I photographed 006 on the 11.55 Wigan to Carlisle on 3/1. Not sure about the other two.

 

[Sentinel]

Have you at least got 1st class catering?

I was first class. There was full catering with initially coffee and biscuits, and then a full breakfast service of bacon rolls, smoked salmon and scrambled egg, and full breakfast

 

[Toby268]

I was on this. It wasn’t out of water; it had been stabled overnight at Carlisle and had been totally powered down. As a result, the water of the toilets froze. It should have been left with the pan up and the overhead connected.

There is an isolation of the overheads at Carlisle due to engineering works north of the station. Avanti and hitachi originally wanted this to happen, throughout the day on turnarounds as well. But the isolation has stopped this.

 

[Krokodil]

Perhaps they should have sent a driver to do some frost prevention start ups. Lucky that no damage was done to the engines.

 

[voyagerdude220]

I photographed 006 on the 11.55 Wigan to Carlisle on 3/1. Not sure about the other two.

Thank you.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Jan 2026 ==

There is an isolation of the overheads at Carlisle due to engineering works north of the station. Avanti and hitachi originally wanted this to happen, throughout the day on turnarounds as well. But the isolation has stopped this.

Oh dear.. I wonder if this is why the stabled set also had issues yesterday morning as well?

 

[Toby268]

Thank you.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Jan 2026 ==


Oh dear.. I wonder if this is why the stabled set also had issues yesterday morning as well?

Both days have been frozen toilet tanks. So it likely is.

Makes a change from GU issues.

 

[voyagerdude220]

It looks like today's already delayed 1Z94 16:06 Preston to Carlisle is being delayed North of Hellifield (last reported passing there 17:35, booked time of 16:59) due to freight 6E77 having problems at Blea Moor. It's quoted on Tyrell that the Driver of 6E77 is hopeful that they will be able to gain enough grip/traction to be able to proceed away from the area once the MOM has done some more sanding of the track.

 

[purple-Azumas]

I hung around the station for a while then left at about 1310, but it seemed to me that the southbound 1Z89 due out at 1321 seemed to be much quieter when I left - where did everyone go?

Having been on 1Z89 it was definitely a lot quieter, maybe a dozen in First and 25-30% full in Standard in the rear set - I assume the front set was much the same.

Both sets were in use and speaking to the TM (who'd worked the northbound service) they'd emptied the water tanks (onto the tracks?) at Carlisle after it arrived so all the non-accessible loos were working in the front set. Only disappointment was no First Class catering - hot drinks and cake only from the shop in both sets as only 2 catering people onboard.

We had a fairly good run - lost a couple of minutes with a slow start out of Carlisle and never really made it up. Ended up 7L at Preston having been held just outside for a late running Pendo on the Fasts. Again, platform looked pretty busy for the next run north, though had to dash for the London train so didn't stay to watch too closely.

Having done two runs over the S&C now I'd say it's worked reasonably well. Sounds like catering and the problems with the loos have been the main issue - I assume once the resignalling at Kingsmoor is done the latter shouldn't be too much of a problem though that's not said from a position of knowledge!

 

[voyagerdude220]

Only disappointment was no First Class catering - hot drinks and cake only from the shop in both sets as only 2 catering people onboard.

Having done two runs over the S&C now I'd say it's worked reasonably well. Sounds like catering and the problems with the loos have been the main issue

That doesn't sound right to me. I'd complain to Avanti.

Yes technically speaking First Class catering is 'subject to availability" but their website makes it quite clear that during the week you should be offered a full range of food and drink in First Class.

Even at Weekends it states that you may need to obtain First Class food/drink from the onboard Shop but if this is the case, you'll be offered a complimentary meal deal (I'm guessing sandwich, drinks including alcohol and snacks?)

First Class service | Avanti West Coast

Dine in style when you travel First Class with Avanti West Coast. Enjoy quality food and drink with wonderful, ever changing views from your window.

www.avantiwestcoast.co.uk

 

[purple-Azumas]

Even at Weekends it states that you may need to obtain First Class food/drink from the onboard Shop but if this is the case, you'll be offered a complimentary meal deal (I'm guessing sandwich, drinks including alcohol and snacks?)

Yeah, when I went Wigan - Carlisle on the 1253 on Sunday it was shop service only. That wasn't much better. Hot drinks machine + microwave was broken so there really was only a couple cold sandwich options. No chance of alcohol either - bottle of water only though at least I was allowed another when I went back an hour later to ask for more!

Was in the front set for that one so didn't see a soul staff-wise - three folks in First and Standard again very quiet, though reading reports on here that seemed to be a theme for the first few days when they were running into Wigan.

Will probably send something in, although I have been caught up in disruption through the Trent Valley this evening so will get half of today's fare back anyway.

 

[InkyScrolls]

65 Leeds - Keighley
75 Keighley - Snaygill (Regional boundary South of Skipton)
60 Snaygill-Skipton South Junction
40 Skipton South -Skipton North Junction
65 Skipton North Junction - Hellifield
80 Hellifield - Long Marton (3 Miles N of Appleby)
30 Long Marton-Newbiggin (Gypsum mining subsidence slack: one and a half miles).
75 Newbiggin-Petteril Bridge Junction.

As far as I can recall, the only permanent restrictions between Settle Junction and Petteril Bridge Junction - apart from the mining subsidence restriction at Newbiggin (Kirkby Thore) - were 70 round the curves at Dent, Smardale viaduct and Armathwaite.

Compared with today's:
- 25/35/50 Leeds to Armley
- 80 Armley to Newlay
- 90 Newlay to Thackley
- 75 then 65 Thackley to Shipley
- 30 then 65 through Shipley
- 90 Shipley to Bingley
- 80 through Bingley
- 90 then 85 to Keighley
- 60 round Keighley curves
- 90 to Snaygill
- 60 to Skipton S. Jct.
- 45 to Skipton N. Jct.
- 60 all the way to Petteril Bridge

The only other permanent restrictions are 30 over Batty Moss viaduct and through Dent station.

 

[lrbvoyager]

Avanti told me only one coach receives first class catering and the one in the other unit gets freebies from the shop. Not quite sure how to tell which is which?

 

[raveon]

Avanti told me only one coach receives first class catering and the one in the other unit gets freebies from the shop. Not quite sure how to tell which is which?

Yes that would be good to know before boarding seeing as it’s impossible to switch sets between Preston and Carlisle (and vice versa)!

 

[FrontSideBus]

That's quite annoying to be honest that one set gets a full cooked breakfast and the others have to walk to the shop and get cold sandwiches because all the bacon or sausage butties had ran out!

 

[800001]

That's quite annoying to be honest that one set gets a full cooked breakfast and the others have to walk to the shop and get cold sandwiches because all the bacon or sausage butties had ran out!

Does the cafe bar not do hot sandwiches??

 

[voyagerdude220]

Does the cafe bar not do hot sandwiches??

They should indeed as a minimum do Bacon Rolls and probably other hot items but forum members have earlier in this thread commented about such a small insufficient quantity being loaded onto the train.

 

[dk1]

Does the cafe bar not do hot sandwiches??

Plenty of hot items being sold at the cafe bar yesterday from what I saw & smelt.

 

[AlterEgo]

805007 died at Carlisle so that diagram (eg: 1207 off Preston) will be 5 vice 10.

 

[31160]

This doesn't appear to be working particularly great does it, I wonder if they will bother with this again

 

[raveon]

Yes, it’ll be interesting to see the performance and reliability stats come the end of these diversions. There will certainly be some lessons to be learnt if/when they happen again.

 

[AlterEgo]

5 vice 10 is not a disaster on the 1207 today given the loadings (I only care because it's my train!). Unsure about pathing or staffing but they could have run 5 cars more frequently over the route and not crowded the trains, according to reports.

 

[Toby268]

5 vice 10 is not a disaster on the 1207 today given the loadings (I only care because it's my train!). Unsure about pathing or staffing but they could have run 5 cars more frequently over the route and not crowded the trains, according to reports.

The concern with running 5 cars was due to engine unreliability. It’s not been to bad in the end, I think 2 cancellations attributed to GU issues since it started.

 

[AndrewE]

5 vice 10 is not a disaster on the 1207 today given the loadings (I only care because it's my train!). Unsure about pathing or staffing but they could have run 5 cars more frequently over the route and not crowded the trains, according to reports.

although that would have had traincrew and hence training (route learning or conductor) cost implications.. Also assumes that there are enough paths.