Avanti West Coast via Settle (for WCML Bridge replacement next January?)

[dk1]

Yes I had wasted journey from Appleby to Carlisle wanting to catch this 805 from Carlisle to Preston and return. Apparently a “Northern member of staff who shall remain anomalous” told me theses trains were not designed to venture into Cumbria as it gets too cold up here

I think that member of staff made that comment up

 

[voyagerdude220]

Just as a matter of interest, how busy was it please?

The 12:07 from Preston seemed to be roughly 75% full in Standard and almost full in First Class. I walked past it and briefly onto it at Preston to see how busy it was.

I noticed the platform screens stated that First Class was in coaches E and L. (Nope.)

Also the exterior screens on the train said Out Of Service. The reservations had downloaded.

No pre warning on the platform screen or any announcements on the Station that it was being held for the arrival from London, which I thought was poor from Avanti. It eventually left Preston 12:30.

 

[JTR60]

Just as a matter of interest, how busy was it please?

I was on this train, the front set was about 25% full but the rear set, which was in the platform at Preston first, was full.
Now on the 13.21 from Carlisle, there are plenty of available seats, I’d say the load is about 40% - so no where near empty as over the weekend.

 

[railrambler]

But similar 80x LNER trains traverse higher and equally severe country in Scotland daily, en route from Perth to Inverness.

Sorry !
My mail was meant to be “tongue in cheek” but my “smile face” didn’t materialise

 

[voyagerdude220]

14:07 Preston to Carlisle not left Preston as of 14:30, I'm guessing it's being held for the recent late arrival at Preston from London.

Edit: The late arrival at Preston from London via Birmingham arrived Preston 14:20 on the adjacent platform so I don't think it would cause this length of delay.

Further edit: Avanti confirmed delay is due to a Train Fault- no toilets on rear set so everyone being moved towards the front set with the rear set being locked out of use. I don't know if this is a different Evero set to the one which failed at Carlisle this morning with toilet faults.

 

[Kite159]

The 12:07 from Preston seemed to be roughly 75% full in Standard and almost full in First Class. I walked past it and briefly onto it at Preston to see how busy it was.

I noticed the platform screens stated that First Class was in coaches E and L. (Nope.)

Also the exterior screens on the train said Out Of Service. The reservations had downloaded.

No pre warning on the platform screen or any announcements on the Station that it was being held for the arrival from London, which I thought was poor from Avanti. It eventually left Preston 12:30.

Coach C is barely a third full!

 

[voyagerdude220]

Coach C is barely a third full!

I think I missed C, I looked in J, D and A.

 

[railrambler]

Coach C is barely a third full!

Dear all.
At the end of the day this “new” replacement train should have been a “joy to behold” with catering and first class accomodation over one of the most iconic lines in the UK - it has turned out to be a shambles - will any heads roll ???

 

[Kite159]

The 15;22 back to Carlisle at least is busier in some coaches. The rearmost coach (showing as coach L) at least isn't that busy in terms of having a few empty pairs of seats.

Looked like first class was busy when I headed towards the front for a photo.

 

[Ayman Ilham]

Just as a matter of interest, how busy was it please?

Fairly busy in one unit, empty in the other, all because they forgot to announce another train was gonna couple to that one. At least we all got seats still. I'm now on the 15:22 back from Carlisle, which departed on time for once (passed Ribblehead a few minutes ago). This is moderately busy being a single 5 car unit, but there's still a fair bit of space left.

 

[dave59]

Dear all.
At the end of the day this “new” replacement train should have been a “joy to behold” with catering and first class accomodation over one of the most iconic lines in the UK - it has turned out to be a shambles - will any heads roll ???

Both trains and engineering backup look to be very disorganised and unreliable. Even catering too. Running out of stock is pathetic on such a long and slow route.. Very timid driving past the Railcams at least and seemingly no effort to make up time

 

[D6130]

Very timid driving past the Railcams at least and seemingly no effort to make up time

Don't forget that the maximum permitted speed between Hellifield and Carlisle is only 60 mph....and between Ribblehead and Blea Moor only 30!

 

[FrontSideBus]

I was in 1st and by the time I had made my way down to the shop to get my snack & drink, they had sold out of bacon barms and I was told he only had three to begin with!

 

[dave59]

Well yes, the speed limits are low around Ribblehead but I was looking at the Settle station and Horton cams. Many trains are managing to lose time in each section which is extraordinary given the power to weight ratio of these things - Even with an engine out the very low speeds along the diversion routes and relatively easy gradients on the S&C should surely not present an issue - or should they?

 

[voyagerdude220]

I was in 1st and by the time I had made my way down to the shop to get my snack & drink, they had sold out of bacon barms and I was told he only had three to begin with!

No at seat service in First? The Avanti website has been updated recently with new First Class menus. Complimentary hot food.

 

[Kite159]

I've got to feel sorry for anybody heading to London who now face a delay due to the connection at Preston pulling out when the 805 on the 15;22 from Carlisle was attaching to another. Especially as Preston station is it's usual freezing self.

 

[Krokodil]

Dear all.
At the end of the day this “new” replacement train should have been a “joy to behold” with catering and first class accomodation over one of the most iconic lines in the UK - it has turned out to be a shambles - will any heads roll ???

Seems a bit over the top to be calling for people to be sacked over a few unit faults and other teething troubles.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Don't forget that the maximum permitted speed between Hellifield and Carlisle is only 60 mph....and between Ribblehead and Blea Moor only 30!

And only 40 between Clitheroe and Hellifield.

 

[jimlad888]

Out of interest in the heyday of the S&C with Peaks hauling Nottingham - Glasgow expresses what was the top line speed then? 90 mph??

 

[dave59]

One diversion 1Z89 actually arrived on time this afternoon.

Realtime Trains | 1Z89 1321 Carlisle to Preston | 05/01/2026

Real-time train running information for 1Z89 1321 departure from Carlisle to Preston on 05/01/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Harpers Tate]

I think that member of staff made that comment up

Not exactly. I was on board the 0923 at Carlisle this morning at the time it was first delayed and then cancelled. And the explanation given on board for the delay and then cancellation was that (with an outside temperature of something like -6degC the water in the toilets was frozen throughout causing them all to not work. Third world problems in 21st century Britain.

 

[railrambler]

Seems a bit over the top to be calling for people to be sacked over a few unit faults and other teething troubles.

This isn’t a “teething problem”. The various agencies involved have had months to plan for this diversion and they have failed. Full stop !

 

[Table 25]

I've got to feel sorry for anybody heading to London who now face a delay due to the connection at Preston pulling out when the 805 on the 15;22 from Carlisle was attaching to another. Especially as Preston station is it's usual freezing self.

Yes, I am one of those fine people. Having initially travelled from Stevenage to London this morning, then north from London to Carlisle on the WCML for the sole reason of enjoying the S&C diversion, with the intention of returning home via Newcastle, the broken rail on the ECML caused me to return south on the 1522 ex Carlisle to Preston. With the 1522 having missed the booked connection at Preston, I'm now on the 1907 ex Preston which departed 10 or so late and has lost time since for various reasons. With the GTR service from London back to Stevenage in tatters (as is usual when things happen), I'm likely to end up on a stopper to Stevenage and will get home about three and a half hours later than planned. Oh well, things started off so nicely today!

 

[ChilliSauce]

Yes, I am one of those fine people. Having initially travelled from Stevenage to London this morning, then north from London to Carlisle on the WCML for the sole reason of enjoying the S&C diversion, with the intention of returning home via Newcastle, the broken rail on the ECML caused me to return south on the 1522 ex Carlisle to Preston. With the 1522 having missed the booked connection at Preston, I'm now on the 1907 ex Preston which departed 10 or so late and has lost time since for various reasons. With the GTR service from London back to Stevenage in tatters (as is usual when things happen), I'm likely to end up on a stopper to Stevenage and will get home about three and a half hours later than planned. Oh well, things started off so nicely today!

I was on the 09.30 from Euston and thought the day trip to Carlisle was doomed after the tour via Northampton. Class 8xx conked out between Hanslope and Rugby on the DF . Decided to return from Carlisle via Newcastle as things seemed to be on the move again at Peterborough .. Departed Newcastle 50L and now stuck in a queue of trains at Peterborough waiting to pass over the failed infrastructure.

5mph ESR

Now 79L ...& Counting

But the LNER Lager served in 1st I can recommend !

 

[Ayayayay]

Good end to the days service, 1Z96 left Preston 20 down, meaning it was caught behind the stopper the full way along Settle and arrived 33 down. Announcements were made saying the last bus to Lockerbie would be held but the staff didn't seem to have been informed and now taxis are being arranged for Glasgow

 

[cadder toad]

Announcements were made saying the last bus to Lockerbie would be held but the staff didn't seem to have been informed and now taxis are being arranged for Glasgow

That sounds completely bizarre. The point of the Settle diversion and the bus to Lockerbie is to allow passengers to travel between London and Glasgow. Its not a collection of local services that might connect if the stars align.

 

[D6130]

Out of interest in the heyday of the S&C with Peaks hauling Nottingham - Glasgow expresses what was the top line speed then? 90 mph??

65 Leeds - Keighley
75 Keighley - Snaygill (Regional boundary South of Skipton)
60 Snaygill-Skipton South Junction
40 Skipton South -Skipton North Junction
65 Skipton North Junction - Hellifield
80 Hellifield - Long Marton (3 Miles N of Appleby)
30 Long Marton-Newbiggin (Gypsum mining subsidence slack: one and a half miles).
75 Newbiggin-Petteril Bridge Junction.

As far as I can recall, the only permanent restrictions between Settle Junction and Petteril Bridge Junction - apart from the mining subsidence restriction at Newbiggin (Kirkby Thore) - were 70 round the curves at Dent, Smardale viaduct and Armathwaite.

Of course, once BR started to reduce the maintenance on the line in the late 1960s, the speed limits were reduced little-by-little until - by the late 1970s the whole line North of Skipton had been reduced to 60....which is still the limit to this day.

 

[FrontSideBus]

No at seat service in First? The Avanti website has been updated recently with new First Class menus. Complimentary hot food.

The first class kitchen was closed. Probably not worth manning it for the 4 people who were there!

 

[voyagerdude220]

The first class kitchen was closed. Probably not worth manning it for the 4 people who were there!

Fair enough. I noticed that First Class on the 12:07 from Preston this afternoon was full. Probably because it was 5cars instead of the booked 10.

 

[Bald Rick]

The point of the Settle diversion and the bus to Lockerbie is to allow passengers to travel between London and Glasgow.

It isn’t.

The point is to provide for journeys within NW England, and between parts of NW England and Scotland. London to Glasgow passengers are routed via the ECML.