Avanti West Coast via Settle (for WCML Bridge replacement next January?)

[_toommm_]

Today’s 11:55 from WGN set off a little late then steadily (and ridiculously) lost time all the way to Carlisle before recouping around eight minutes due to the pathing allowances at Howe & Co. Sidings.
However it was worth the delay to travel over the route in a decent train rather than slogging up hill and down dale in a knackered 158.

I agree, I was on that train too.

Didn't help with the signaller letting the ECS Pendolino out first, delaying us departing. But throughout the whole run it definitely felt like the driver was being cautious. I'd imagine that's just the nature of being route conducted for a long route though.

 

[jimlad888]

On the 1Z33 ex BHM - all ten coaches in use and so far so good. I counted about 30 pax at BHM and there’s a few folks - mostly enthusiasts - in my carriage this morning. Decided to sit in the rear set given windows in 805013 need a good wash!

 

[Sheridan]

Does the fact that they’re being conducted over the route affect things? Presumably instructions have to be given ahead of time and a much more conservative approach is taken at restrictive aspects or reductions in speeds compared to if a driver who signs the route is in the seat?

 

[AndrewE]

Does the fact that they’re being conducted over the route affect things? Presumably instructions have to be given ahead of time and a much more conservative approach is taken at restrictive aspects or reductions in speeds compared to if a driver who signs the route is in the seat?

That is an interesting idea. Hopefully the corollory is that as the days go by and drivers get to have driven the route several times they might become less conservative?

 

[daveo]

How can the 18:03 have run late 3 hours before it is due to depart

Sorry, I was referring to Friday.

 

[pnepaul]

On a different note. For those wanting to enjoy the views and journey, the weather could not be better!. Clear and sunny with great views.

 

[AndrewE]

On a different note. For those wanting to enjoy the views and journey, the weather could not be better!. Clear and sunny with great views.

I would second that:

and

 

[voyagerdude220]

Just thinking about the Everos losing time frequently on the diversions leads me to ask: Are they using the overheads between Farrington Junction and Wigan North Western and v.v? If not, that might explain why they seem to lose time between Wigan and Farrington Junction. Also using platform 6 at Wigan North Western won't help because of it's low line speed.

 

[haddock1000]

Also on 1Z33 in 1st at the rear. My rough guess is the train is probably about 1/3 full, but with 2/3 of those being enthusiasts. I think most in 1st back here are along for the ride, with 1st probably 2/3 full (which makes the fact that the attendant for the shop wasn't able to make the train and thus no complimentary food a bit of a missed opportunity).

My advance ticket had a seat reservation that was double booked, but luckily most seats are not reserved and there was some spare for me. Also 1st time on an 805 for me, they are miles better than the Voyagers and my only fault so far is the USB port at my seat doesn't work. Even the WiFi (outside of tunnels) isn't too bad.

I noted that we went very tortuously slowly around the curve between Farington and Lostock Hall Jns. The other direction it seemed the speed limits were 10 for freight ant 25 for passenger - I'm sure we did it at less than 10. I don't know whether there is a TSR (Temporary Speed Restriction) on it, but could it be possible that the route conductor is normally a freight only driver and thus does not know the passenger speeds (and thus we are travelling according to the freight limits)?

All in all coming into Carlisle 12 down - it seems like the train from Lockerbie is cancelled, so those doing all the way to Glasgow will be on a bus all the way. The Carlisle-Lockerbie bus isn't until 1400 apparently.

And yes the weather is stunning!

 

[MerlinRail 804]

Just thinking about the Everos losing time frequently on the diversions leads me to ask: Are they using the overheads between Farrington Junction and Wigan North Western and v.v? If not, that might explain why they seem to lose time between Wigan and Farrington Junction. Also using platform 6 at Wigan North Western won't help because of it's low line speed.

Nope. For ours both ways mode changed at Wigan

 

[jimlad888]

Yes the views were outstanding and hello to everyone in First on the second set was a nice crowd I have to say. Also we were catered as far as Wigan - the Bacon butties ran out before Crewe so I settled for a BLT. Delighted to have made the trip. Agree with Evero performance though - at times it seemed exceptionally slow - but made for great photographs!

 

[voyagerdude220]

Nope. For ours both ways mode changed at Wigan

Thank you for confirming.

 

[Barnsley]

I was on the 0847 Crewe to Carlisle (https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:S22935/2026-01-03/detailed#allox_id=0) which was delayed 40 mins because they tried to join the 2 sets (separately off the carriage shed) in the platform and then found that they couldn't get the front set doors to open. Checked on the approach to pfm 4 at Warrington and then overtime for the same reason, 19 late from Wigan. It was further delayed at Blackburn but after that it went fine, losing a couple of minutes to Armathwaite but regaining 5 before Carlisle. Pity none of the staff realised that the front set doors hadn't released, lots of passengers banging on windows to attract platform staff attention, passcom/toilet alarms pulled etc. One chap watched his Newcastle connection set off...
Finally after exactly 10 mins we were allowed out through a staff door at the rear of the unit - and I was pretty well the closest to it. Both units were quite well filled by my reckoning, standard virtually full when I walked through to the shop.

The 1423 return to Wigan had the rear (door fault) set locked out, first class was pretty well full up (2 blokes went back to standard to find a seat facing forwards) and I guess standard was the same. It only lost 2 mins to Ribblehead but was checked at Settle Jn by a late-running Morecambe to Leeds, then again at Blackburn, arriving into Wigan 5 late.

Apart from the morning shambles at Crewe and the fact that the whole set was like an icebox until a member of the crew announced, after Wigan I think, that they had noticed it and reset the thermostat I didn't find the train's actual performance to be a frustration!

I was on that, waiting by the shop to get out at Carlisle, the young lass working in the shop said no re-stock at Carlisle, hardly anything left for the return journey, the guard was good, announcing landmarks, including the lovely mill town of Blackburn!

 

[Starmill]

One has to wonder how many thousands of people who may have benefited from the use of these services have been put off from travelling by rail because the journey planner showed them a message that said "Sorry no fares found" or similar, or a very very high price compared to a usual Off Peak or Anytime ticket.

Some easements have appeared with the apparent intention of ensuring tickets on routes Preston, Lancaster or Penrith were shown as valid, but they have been incomplete and incorrect, so mostly haven't had any effect. Of course, anyone using such a ticket will have had it accepted in the usual way, as if the train actually did pass through those places, even though it doesn't, but one needs to know that or be told that in advance. People who bought a ticket from a ticket office or guard may be at some advantage in that case.

Avanti consistently let their industry colleagues down in this regard unfortunately.

If the train type has never had any timings set up for travel over the S&C line, it would be impossible to path a train as an 80x as far as I understand.

In theory, AWC should have probably put engineering allowances in the journey to account for this, but I would guess they also didn't know how the units would perform in the real world, and probably thought it would be better than the reality!

I know they did some test runs and route learning, but that was back in summer, and I'd imagine performance can differ seasonally. For all we know, maybe the struggle is partly affected by adhesion too?

It looks like they have used some adjustment allowance to me, although this is often hidden so it may not be as noticeable.

 

[louis97]

I noted that we went very tortuously slowly around the curve between Farington and Lostock Hall Jns. The other direction it seemed the speed limits were 10 for freight ant 25 for passenger - I'm sure we did it at less than 10. I don't know whether there is a TSR (Temporary Speed Restriction) on it, but could it be possible that the route conductor is normally a freight only driver and thus does not know the passenger speeds (and thus we are travelling according to the freight limits)?

The curve between Farington and Lostock in both directions isnt a standard speed differential, the lower speed (10mph) applies to passenger trains with the higher speed for everything else (25mph).

 

[Skiddaw]

I would second that:
View attachment 195267
and
View attachment 195266

Good isn't it? We have that view over to Cross Fell, Little Dun Fell and Great Dun Fell (with the radio domes) from our upstairs back windows. Aren't we lucky?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

What's surprising is how little snow there is in the high Pennines, with nothing at Clifton for the bridge project.
We've got much more snow than that at lower levels here in NE Wales, and more still falling.

 

[MerlinRail 804]

The curve between Farington and Lostock in both directions isnt a standard speed differential, the lower speed (10mph) applies to passenger trains with the higher speed for everything else (25mph).

I thought I saw a dual speed TSR board on the other line as we went past. Didn’t see what it said though

 

[Skiddaw]

What's surprising is how little snow there is in the high Pennines, with nothing at Clifton for the bridge project.
We've got much more snow than that at lower levels here in NE Wales, and more still falling.

Yes, thank goodness! We're thankfully south of the Scottish snow belt and north of the other. It could have caused some serious issues if the weather had been against them.

 

[ABB125]

The curve between Farington and Lostock in both directions isnt a standard speed differential, the lower speed (10mph) applies to passenger trains with the higher speed for everything else (25mph).

Why is that? Seems a bit odd. Are there any other examples of "inverse" speed restrictions like this?

 

[lrbvoyager]

I’m travelling tomorrow over the diversion and as it is currently snowing in Carlisle and Ribblehead do you think this will affect tomorrows diversions?

 

[185143]

My train Friday morning also changed onto diesel at Wigan, so I suspect they all are.

 

[dk1]

I’m travelling tomorrow over the diversion and as it is currently snowing in Carlisle and Ribblehead do you think this will affect tomorrows diversions?

Only to provide some excellent views and/or photographic opportunities. I don’t think it’s supposed to be severe as haven’t noticed ant weather warnings from the Met Office.

 

[haddock1000]

The curve between Farington and Lostock in both directions isnt a standard speed differential, the lower speed (10mph) applies to passenger trains with the higher speed for everything else (25mph).

Well that's a new one for me! But yes that's what the Table in the Sectional Appendix says. I am curious as to why.

Came back on 1Z36. Was more lightly loaded. I did notice a TSR on the Up between Low House and Culgaith that contributed around 2 mins of delay. Got to Wigan North Western with only 4 mins delay thanks to allowances in the timetable (11.5 mins in total).

 

[Ayman Ilham]

Booked a trip tomorrow from Preston to Carlisle on the diverted trains (the wife and kids will tag along cos why not); this will be my first time riding on Settle Carlisle and also, my first time on an Avanti Evero. Advance singles bought today (day before travel) at around £8pp each way w/ railcards. They show up on Avanti's booking system alongside the TPE/RRB combo via Oxenholme.

 

[jimlad888]

Pleased with this shot from earlier as we left the WCML!

 

[AndrewE]

My train Friday morning also changed onto diesel at Wigan, so I suspect they all are.

Welll if it's going to go "Pete Tong," better to do it in a platform where you can get off... (Cl 769 are a good example!)

 

[tram21]

Only to provide some excellent views and/or photographic opportunities. I don’t think it’s supposed to be severe as haven’t noticed ant weather warnings from the Met Office.

There are Yellow warnings across the UK but for once avoiding the Cumbria area!

 

[dk1]

There are Yellow warnings across the UK but for once avoiding the Cumbria area!

So good to hear especially seen as I am in Blackpool tomorrow and doing the 805 diversion on Tuesday

 

[mangyiscute]

I was on the 0847 Crewe to Carlisle (https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:S22935/2026-01-03/detailed#allox_id=0) which was delayed 40 mins because they tried to join the 2 sets (separately off the carriage shed) in the platform and then found that they couldn't get the front set doors to open. Checked on the approach to pfm 4 at Warrington and then overtime for the same reason, 19 late from Wigan. It was further delayed at Blackburn but after that it went fine, losing a couple of minutes to Armathwaite but regaining 5 before Carlisle. Pity none of the staff realised that the front set doors hadn't released, lots of passengers banging on windows to attract platform staff attention, passcom/toilet alarms pulled etc. One chap watched his Newcastle connection set off...
Finally after exactly 10 mins we were allowed out through a staff door at the rear of the unit - and I was pretty well the closest to it. Both units were quite well filled by my reckoning, standard virtually full when I walked through to the shop.

The 1423 return to Wigan had the rear (door fault) set locked out, first class was pretty well full up (2 blokes went back to standard to find a seat facing forwards) and I guess standard was the same. It only lost 2 mins to Ribblehead but was checked at Settle Jn by a late-running Morecambe to Leeds, then again at Blackburn, arriving into Wigan 5 late.

Apart from the morning shambles at Crewe and the fact that the whole set was like an icebox until a member of the crew announced, after Wigan I think, that they had noticed it and reset the thermostat I didn't find the train's actual performance to be a frustration!

I was also on this train, in the rear set that was pretty empty (had a table to myself in the 9th car and the table next to me was empty). Seems even enthusiasts don't walk down the platform.