Avanti West Coast via Settle (for WCML Bridge replacement next January?)

[Harpo]

Speaking to the train manager earlier, he said they needed all three running to handle gradients on the S&C so, even with two running, it can't go forward.

Reliance on 100% IET GU availability sounds like quite a leap of faith currently.

 

[D1024]

Yes, with one of the engines not running. Speaking to the train manager earlier, he said they needed all three running to handle gradients on the S&C so, even with two running, it can't go forward.

And I thought that was why all the "shuttles" were meant to be double sets...

 

[ChrisC]

I was going to have a ride and a few hours in Carlisle yesterday but there's just too much goes wrong on today's railway.

Especially when you think back to the weather conditions over the Settle to Carlisle that the old Nottingham to Glasgow trains ran through during some winters.

 

[InkyScrolls]

Was going to take a run up there tommorrow AM from Crewe, but i was concerned about cold weather and Evero known diesel reliability and being stuck somewhere desolate. Not sure if Hellifield even has decent / warm shelter - dont think it does. Hopefully the 158 will be able to accomodate a light load but seems unlikely

Hellifield does have a café open Sat, Tue, Weds and Thurs.

 

[j37401]

Probably the best place to terminate. Provided the station cafe is open.

 

[voyagerdude220]

was on the 0751 from Wigan been dumped at Hellifield

Do you know if 1Z32 the Avanti going the other way at Hellifield stopped incase anyone wanted to go back towards Wigan? Very unlikely I realise.

I'd intended to travel on the 07:51 today myself but decided not to. I would have been very peeved at not being able to get the Evero over the Settle and Carlisle.

 

[Rail Quest]

Do you know if 1Z32 the Avanti going the other way at Hellifield stopped incase anyone wanted to go back towards Wigan? Very unlikely I realise.

It did not. I did hear some disappointment when it passed through but can't tell if that was people mistakenly assuming it was heading north.

 

[ABB125]

I'm on the 1038 from Wolverhampton, it's not particularly busy, probably under 25% full in the coach I'm in. Quite a few seats reserved Crewe to Carlisle but, having just departed Crewe, remain empty.
Single unit at the moment (805011), booked to attach to another (805001) at Wigan

 

[voyagerdude220]

It did not. I did hear some disappointment when it passed through but can't tell if that was people mistakenly assuming it was heading north.

Thank you for confirming. I did think it would have been very unlikely for Avanti to authorise it to stop.
Are the platforms long enough at Hellifield to accommodate 5 car Everos? I guess the failure would have been alot more challenging to deal with for the train crew had it been a 10car. (Or are 10 car Everos allowed to proceed along the Settle and Carlisle with 5/6 engines running?)

 

[D6130]

Thank you for confirming. I did think it would have been very unlikely for Avanti to authorise it to stop.
Are the platforms long enough at Hellifield to accommodate 5 car Everos? I guess the failure would have been alot more challenging to deal with for the train crew had it been a 10car. (Or are 10 car Everos allowed to proceed along the Settle and Carlisle with 5/6 engines running?)

The useable sections of the platforms at Hellifield only accommodate a maximum of four cars. Unfortunately a quick check on Google reveals that the café is not open today. Only opens on Saturdays and Sundays during the Winter.

 

[voyagerdude220]

The useable sections of the platforms at Hellifield only accommodate a maximum of four cars. Unfortunately a quick check on Google reveals that the café is not open today. Only opens on Saturdays and Sundays during the Winter.

Thank you. Ouch!

 

[The Planner]

And I thought that was why all the "shuttles" were meant to be double sets...

There were always single sets planned.

 

[Halwynd]

Especially when you think back to the weather conditions over the Settle to Carlisle that the old Nottingham to Glasgow trains ran through during some winters.

Too true. And when WCML services were divered via the S&C, viewing proceedings at Preston and Carlisle was like watching a well-oiled machine... and always with a stand-by loco at Blea Moor.

The railway should have stuck with the British Rail bi-mode, perfected as long ago as the 60s: just couple a diesel to the electric and off you go.

 

[Ayman Ilham]

There were always single sets planned.

Double-sets are overkill on this shuttle anyway, given they're almost empty; saw two services pass my local this morning (around 10:25 at CYT, so the morning Crewe to Carlisle and Carlisle to Wigan) and didn't see much people onboard.

 

[voyagerdude220]

Double-sets are overkill on this shuttle anyway, given they're almost empty; saw two services pass my local this morning (around 10:25 at CYT, so the morning Crewe to Carlisle and Carlisle to Wigan) and didn't see much people onboard.

Maybe they'll be busier over the weekend?

 

[MerlinRail 804]

I'm on the 1038 from Wolverhampton, it's not particularly busy, probably under 25% full in the coach I'm in. Quite a few seats reserved Crewe to Carlisle but, having just departed Crewe, remain empty.
Single unit at the moment (805011), booked to attach to another (805001) at Wigan

Yup I’d say now between Wigan and Carlisle in the coach I’m in everyone’s got like a pair/table to themselves and that’s doing perfectly

 

[_toommm_]

Maybe they'll be busier over the weekend?

I've booked the 11:55 from Wigan to Carlisle for tomorrow. One of the cheapest advance tiers available and next to no reservations booked on it. I'm the only one in my coach at the minute and there's only 80ish reservations along the whole 10 carriages (in standard at least).

 

[185143]

Double-sets are overkill on this shuttle anyway, given they're almost empty; saw two services pass my local this morning (around 10:25 at CYT, so the morning Crewe to Carlisle and Carlisle to Wigan) and didn't see much people onboard.

I was on a 10 car this morning, rear 5 locked out.

Can't have been more than about 20 on, and at least a third of those were Avanti staff on duty!

 

[raveon]

Sadly if such light loadings continue for the duration of these diversions there’s no going to be much of an argument for future use of the S&C during engineering blockades. So make the most of the opportunity over these next couple of weeks as it could be a long time until the M6 and WCML are simultaneously closed again!

 

[ainsworth74]

Sadly if such light loadings continue for the duration of these diversions there’s no going to be much of an argument for future use of the S&C during engineering blockades. So make the most of the opportunity over these next couple of weeks as it could be a long time until the M6 and WCML are simultaneously closed again!

In fairness the WCML is chopped to heck. Train from Glasgow to Lockerbie, bus to Carlisle. Train from Carlisle to Wigan, then another train to Ruby, and another to Northampton. Bus to Milton Keynes Central before finally a train to Euston. It's not surprising that they're loading so poorly when it's that convoluted in my view!

When LNER do their diversions say via the Tyne Valley the rest of the ECML is both open and it's usually a through service to/from London to/from Scotland. This leads to much healthier loadings (indeed often full or fullish trains).

It'll be more instructive next week I reckon when the line is open from Preston to Euston and then especially when from the middle of next week when it's open from Glasgow to Carlisle as well. So it's train from Glasgow to Carlisle, train to Preston and then train to Euston. No buses at all!

If they're still dead at that point it's more of an indication that this hasn't worked from a passenger perspective.

 

[ABB125]

I'm on the 1038 from Wolverhampton, it's not particularly busy, probably under 25% full in the coach I'm in. Quite a few seats reserved Crewe to Carlisle but, having just departed Crewe, remain empty.
Single unit at the moment (805011), booked to attach to another (805001) at Wigan

In an update to this, the train is now reasonably busy in the coach I'm in, but nowhere near full. Currently running nearly 40 late due to delays coupling to the second set at Wigan. I'm not sure if the second set is in use or not, the announcement that might have answered was a bit inaudible.
The guard has just announced that one of the two coaches due to depart Carlisle at 1500 will be held for the late arrival (not that it affects me).

 

[Halwynd]

In fairness the WCML is chopped to heck. Train from Glasgow to Lockerbie, bus to Carlisle. Train from Carlisle to Wigan, then another train to Ruby, and another to Northampton. Bus to Milton Keynes Central before finally a train to Euston. It's not surprising that they're loading so poorly when it's that convoluted in my view!

When LNER do their diversions say via the Tyne Valley the rest of the ECML is both open and it's usually a through service to/from London to/from Scotland. This leads to much healthier loadings (indeed often full or fullish trains).

It'll be more instructive next week I reckon when the line is open from Preston to Euston and then especially when from the middle of next week when it's open from Glasgow to Carlisle as well. So it's train from Glasgow to Carlisle, train to Preston and then train to Euston. No buses at all!

If they're still dead at that point it's more of an indication that this hasn't worked from a passenger perspective.

Exactly. I would expect the diverted trains to start getting busier from Monday.

But what a missed opportunity by Avanti and their PR and marketing team. Instead of 'diversions and longer journey times', where are the messages promoting the opportunity to avoid rail replacement buses and travel in comfort along one of Britain's most famous and scenic railways?

 

[Bertie the bus]

Sadly if such light loadings continue for the duration of these diversions there’s no going to be much of an argument for future use of the S&C during engineering blockades. So make the most of the opportunity over these next couple of weeks as it could be a long time until the M6 and WCML are simultaneously closed again!

The arguments are:

1. All staff will be paid, train leasing costs will be due and all lines are open whether there are diversions or not and so the cost of putting on a rail service won't be that much more than putting on coaches.
2. The railway is supposed to operate a rail service. Just because in the last 20 years or so the mentality has been to only run a service when convenient, especially with Avanti and Virgin, that doesn't mean that is the right thing to do and if the government are in any way serious about the railway will be owned by and run for us it is something that needs reversing.

 

[MerlinRail 804]

leaving Crewe on 1Z40 at 1605, 10 coaches but the rear unit is locked out. Come to think of it I think it might have been the same for 1Z37 (1038 off Wolverhampton) from Wigan

 

[185143]

Exactly. I would expect the diverted trains to start getting busier from Monday.

But what a missed opportunity by Avanti and their PR and marketing team. Instead of 'diversions and longer journey times', where are the messages promoting the opportunity to avoid rail replacement buses and travel in comfort along one of Britain's most famous and scenic railways?

To be fair, the TM on the first one this morning very much did make a point of announcing that we were running up "the scenic Settle-Carlisle route" and to sit back and enjoy the scenery.

No mention of the fact we were 20L though, until we were dropping into Carlisle. I had to go and find the TM to make sure the bus would wait, which it did.

 

[MerlinRail 804]

leaving Crewe on 1Z40 at 1605, 10 coaches but the rear unit is locked out. Come to think of it I think it might have been the same for 1Z37 (1038 off Wolverhampton) from Wigan

Reservation screens are off too, so a little bit of semi-busy semi-chaos

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Jan 2026 ==

TM has said the rear unit is locked out “to provide a smooth and safer service”, so I’m guessing staffing is the reason

 

[ABB125]

leaving Crewe on 1Z40 at 1605, 10 coaches but the rear unit is locked out. Come to think of it I think it might have been the same for 1Z37 (1038 off Wolverhampton) from Wigan

Yes, it's the same pair of units, but they've swapped over which set is in use.

It's pretty busy on here, although still some seats free

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Jan 2026 ==

Reservation screens are off too, so a little bit of semi-busy semi-chaos

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Jan 2026 ==

TM has said the rear unit is locked out “to provide a smooth and safer service”, so I’m guessing staffing is the reason

My reservation is in coach B, which is in the locked out rear set. I imagine a lot of people are in this situation.
(Though I was always intending to switch sets for the way back, regardless of reservations!)

 

[Halwynd]

To be fair, the TM on the first one this morning very much did make a point of announcing that we were running up "the scenic Settle-Carlisle route" and to sit back and enjoy the scenery.

No mention of the fact we were 20L though, until we were dropping into Carlisle. I had to go and find the TM to make sure the bus would wait, which it did.

Good on the TM, sounds like he or she should be sent to the marketing department! I reckon an email to customers or social media promotion would have cost nothing, given some positive PR (no rail replacement buses etc.), and might well have attracted more business.

 

[MerlinRail 804]

Yes, it's the same pair of units, but they've swapped over which set is in use.

It's pretty busy on here, although still some seats free

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Jan 2026 ==


My reservation is in coach B, which is in the locked out rear set. I imagine a lot of people are in this situation.
(Though I was always intending to switch sets for the way back, regardless of reservations!)

Had a little walk through to the shop and I think there may be one or two ppl standing

 

[The Planner]

Sadly if such light loadings continue for the duration of these diversions there’s no going to be much of an argument for future use of the S&C during engineering blockades. So make the most of the opportunity over these next couple of weeks as it could be a long time until the M6 and WCML are simultaneously closed again!

They will happen again.