• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Which year was the lowest ebb in UK railways

Status
Not open for further replies.

William3000

Member
Joined
24 May 2011
Messages
600
Location
Cambridgeshire
Railways albeit with a slight blip during COVID seem to be at their busiest for nearly a century and that’s in spite of some pretty sky high ticket prices.

Things seem to have been steadily improving since around the late 1980s after being in decline for the previous 50 years.

I’m just wondering when people think the low point was - by that I mean a combination of poor quality trains, stations closures exceeding station openings, rationalisation exceeding increasing capacity etc.

Obviously there were the Beeching closures and the continuation of those into the late 60s and early 70s but similarly in the 70s/80s some new stations were starting to be opened and networks like Merseyrail and the Tyne & Wear Metro were being developed - but there were still notable closures and rationalisations like Woodhead, March to Spalding, (London) Broad Street, Tunbridge Wells West etc well in the 1980s.

The upturn seem to correspond with privatisation but likely inspite of rather than necessarily because of.

For me it feels like 1985 was probably the low point but I would be interested in others’ views.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

30907

Veteran Member
Joined
30 Sep 2012
Messages
21,972
Location
Airedale
Post Hatfield/Potters Bar was pretty grim.
Agree.

From a London perspective maybe late 70s with service cutbacks and staff shortages even if no actual closures.
OTOH I had my Student Railcard and bikes now went free :)
 

Uncle Buck

Member
Joined
30 Jun 2020
Messages
336
Location
Glasgow
What about 1975? After the old (pre-Beeching) railway, but before almost anything “modern” at all: just grey-and-blue trains, mainly loco-hauled, mainly diesel, following antiquated patterns. Nothing like NSE or Scotrail, just drab and plain. No Cross-Town Link-Line or anything like that to portend the transformation of the London passenger system. I chose 1975 specifically because the HST was introduced in 1976.
 

Magdalia

Established Member
Joined
1 Jan 2022
Messages
7,402
Location
The Fens
1982.

Lowest year for passenger numbers.
First full year of reduced services after the 1981 timetable cuts.
First full year after end of collect and deliver parcels.
Impact of decline in UK manufacturing on freight.
Very little new investment.
Strikes over flexible rostering and driver only operation.
Serpell Report.
 

Bald Rick

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Sep 2010
Messages
35,897
1982.

Lowest year for passenger numbers.
First full year of reduced services after the 1981 timetable cuts.
First full year after end of collect and deliver parcels.
Impact of decline in UK manufacturing on freight.
Very little new investment.
Strikes over flexible rostering and driver only operation.
Serpell Report.

agreed
 

frankmoh

On Moderation
Joined
7 May 2025
Messages
825
Location
London
1996-2002.

14 crashes in 6 years at a time when the future of the railways was uncertain
 

xotGD

Established Member
Joined
4 Feb 2017
Messages
7,880
What about 1975? After the old (pre-Beeching) railway, but before almost anything “modern” at all: just grey-and-blue trains, mainly loco-hauled, mainly diesel, following antiquated patterns. Nothing like NSE or Scotrail, just drab and plain. No Cross-Town Link-Line or anything like that to portend the transformation of the London passenger system. I chose 1975 specifically because the HST was introduced in 1976.
I see it the other way around. 1975 was the last year before loco-hauled services were sadly replaced with HSTs. The railway started to go downhill after that, starting with the withdrawal of the Westerns.
 

hexagon789

Veteran Member
Joined
2 Sep 2016
Messages
18,324
Location
Glasgow
I see it the other way around. 1975 was the last year before loco-hauled services were sadly replaced with HSTs. The railway started to go downhill after that, starting with the withdrawal of the Westerns.
That's the enthusiasts' perspective though, in traction terms.

As opposed to in terms of how the railway operated, its service provision, how modern it was and how it performed in financial and passenger terms.
 

LNW-GW Joint

Veteran Member
Joined
22 Feb 2011
Messages
21,934
Location
Mold, Clwyd
What about 1975? After the old (pre-Beeching) railway, but before almost anything “modern” at all: just grey-and-blue trains, mainly loco-hauled, mainly diesel, following antiquated patterns. Nothing like NSE or Scotrail, just drab and plain. No Cross-Town Link-Line or anything like that to portend the transformation of the London passenger system. I chose 1975 specifically because the HST was introduced in 1976.
And yet the WCM North was electrified (Weaver Jn-Glasgow) in 1974, and GN suburban wiring was in progress.
But the railway generally was badly creaking in those days, with delapidation far exceeding renewal.
The "modernisation plan" money had been fully spent with only patchy benefits.
Many long-distance routes were run with 70mph suburban DMUs, or Mk1s with a class 31 on the front (Paddington-Worcester-Hereford).
New Mk2 stock was very thinly spread.
The unimpressive Richard Marsh (ex Secretary of State for Transport) was BR Chairman 1971-76.
 

nw1

Established Member
Joined
9 Aug 2013
Messages
9,430
For me it feels like 1985 was probably the low point but I would be interested in others’ views.

Given that some of the more interesting operations of the railway, such as peak extras round London, have been severely reduced, there is a case for declaring the period since Covid as the worst. (Certainly my interest in the contemporary railway, sadly, is lower than at any time between 1982 and 2019).

If we discount that I'd single out 1985 (as you did) and 1991-93 as lower ebbs in the Southern Region/NSE - but separated by a period of growth and improvement between 1986 and 1990.

1985 saw significant cuts in peak services on the South Western in particular, for example Alton peak service down from 3tph to 2tph; significant cuts towards Ascot and Reading in the peak; and Alton off-peak down to 1tph.

It also saw significant off-peak cuts on the Central Division compared to 1983 (though I am not sure whether these came in from May 1984 - I've never seen a Central Division 1984 timetable so not sure). For example there were just 2tph off-peak from Victoria to Horsham via Gatwick.

On the GWML there appeared to be an abandonment of clockface departures on some of the key routes, even Paddington-Bristol Temple Meads.

Things started picking up again in 1986 e.g. Hastings electrification, restoration of 3tph to Horsham via Gatwick, additional London Bridge-Brighton off peak, and things were generally on an upwards trend up to and including 1990.

1991 however saw quite significant cuts on the South Western; after being 6tph for years, the Portsmouth Direct peak service got cut to 4tph in May. Due to HAP withdrawal and no replacement, many peak services were shortened out of Waterloo at the autumn timetable change. After steady improvement for several years, this was rather disheartening - the recession being to blame presumably.

1992 saw relatively little change but 1993 then saw just 2tph off peak on the Portsmouth Direct, the only occasion during normal times post-Beeching so see such sparsity of services (the other being 1977). This also continued in May 1994 before a Haslemere via Cobham train was introduced in Sep 1994 followed by the 20-min-interval service from May 1995.


== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==


The year I started using the railways so a good reference point personally - but not the worst from personal experience. I used them 5 days a week for school commuting and rarely encountered problems with either delays or overcrowding - though I do realise I lived in the relatively blessed southeast. Some of the "Regional Railways" type routes did indeed look very sparse compared to sectorisation later in the 80s.
 
Last edited:

quantinghome

Established Member
Joined
1 Jun 2013
Messages
2,899
OK, so far we have 1975, 1982 and 1991. Of those I'd have to go with 1975: pre 125, and before PTEs really got going with local networks. There's not much to like unless you are into deltics and sleeper trains. 1982 marked the completion of the 125 roll out and new local stations were opening up. 1991 was a mixed bag nationally but not bad at all in the north with electrification of the ECML and the class 158 becoming the regional workhorse.
 

Magdalia

Established Member
Joined
1 Jan 2022
Messages
7,402
Location
The Fens
If we discount that I'd single out 1985 and 1991-93 as periods of marked decline in the Southern Region/NSE - but separated by a period of growth and improvement between 1986 and 1990.
Lowest ebb is a level, not a direction of change. The improvements 1986-90 were far greater than any decline 1991-93. The decline due to COVID was big but it didn't wipe out all of the gains that had occurred in the previous 30+ years.

Of those I'd have to go with 1975: pre 125, and before PTEs really got going with local networks. There's not much to like unless you are into deltics and sleeper trains. 1982 marked the completion of the 125 roll out and new local stations were opening up.
You are both only looking at rail from a passenger perspective. In 1975 the railway was still moving huge amounts of parcels and freight, lots of which disappeared in the early 1980s.
 

yorksrob

Veteran Member
Joined
6 Aug 2009
Messages
44,386
Location
Yorks
I'd agree with the mid-1970's. The disastrous closure programme had ravaged the network, but IC125 had yet to come in and work its magic.

Am I correct in also thinking that there wasn't much in terms of electrification until the 1980's ?

Also I remember reading that Moulescombe station opened in 1980 was the first new station opened on the Southern Region for a very long time.
 

Gloster

Veteran Member
Joined
4 Sep 2020
Messages
13,028
Location
Up the creek
I would say around 1967. Beeching had taken big bites out of the network and even lines that weren’t listed , such as Oxford-Cambridge, were going, motorway building was in full swing. With little to attract the public’s attention there was a feeling that railways were just outdated and everything should be targeted towards the motor car or the plane: the railway would just be left to pick up the bits that nobody else wanted. The 1968 Transport Act was the first sign that some, at least, realised that it was more complicated than that and we shouldn’t be in thrall to the little tin boxes.
 

coppercapped

Established Member
Joined
13 Sep 2015
Messages
3,334
Location
Reading
Railways albeit with a slight blip during COVID seem to be at their busiest for nearly a century and that’s in spite of some pretty sky high ticket prices.

Things seem to have been steadily improving since around the late 1980s after being in decline for the previous 50 years.

I’m just wondering when people think the low point was - by that I mean a combination of poor quality trains, stations closures exceeding station openings, rationalisation exceeding increasing capacity etc.

Obviously there were the Beeching closures and the continuation of those into the late 60s and early 70s but similarly in the 70s/80s some new stations were starting to be opened and networks like Merseyrail and the Tyne & Wear Metro were being developed - but there were still notable closures and rationalisations like Woodhead, March to Spalding, (London) Broad Street, Tunbridge Wells West etc well in the 1980s.

The upturn seem to correspond with privatisation but likely inspite of rather than necessarily because of.

For me it feels like 1985 was probably the low point but I would be interested in others’ views.
As someone who lived through the changes in the railways from the late 1950s onwards my vote for the lowest ebb in the railways fortunes, both economically, visually and as a way to travel would be the decade from about 1955.

British Railway's financial results had been deteriorating since 1952 and by 1955 it was not even covering its direct operating costs; from breaking even at an operating level in 1952 the losses increased every year to reach £100 million by 1962. (Some £2,500 million today). The railways' slide into loss making had significant effects on its sponsoring department, the Ministry of Transport, and the Treasury. Suddenly, in space of a couple of years Whitehall had to find a way to fill the financial hole. When many industries were nationalised in 1947/8 [1] it was never expected that any of them would need operating support[2] although loans for large capital projects were foreseen so no management processes were in place to manage continual subsidies. As a result Whitehall was scrambling for some way to manage and staunch the flow of funds into what seemed to be at the time an ever increasing hole and for which the Treasury's forward planning had no precedent.

One of these initiatives was the 1955 Modernisation Plan which failed miserably in improving BR's financial results and which was followed four years later in 1959 by the Re-appraisal of the Plan for the Modernisation and Re-equipment of British Railways and only eight years later by the Reshaping Plan in 1963.

Visually, this period was awful. Steam locomotives were run down and in very poor condition and the coal they burnt was often low grade and very smoky. Rolling stock was dirty both externally and internally and window slides frequently jammed with ash and grit. Money was tight and stations were grimy and unpleasant places although in many cases the platforms were swept - unfortunately often straight onto the tracks...

In the suburban areas around London the Southern at least did not put ash into one's eye, but the use of cast iron brake blocks on every electric train meant the south London trains, track, bridges and stations were covered with a thin layer of rust.

The new diesel locomotives did not improve matters much. In practice they were not much more reliable, if at all, than the steam engines they were replacing and they were also not looked after, chipped and peeling paintwork, oil stains and general grime were not uncommon.

The continuing loss of freight traffic resulted in many sidings and other facilities becoming unused and derelict, rusty rails covered by weeds and saplings. Long lines of sad looking freight and other rolling stock with COND(emned) or a cross in circle daubed on the sides were left in sidings all over the country.

There were some signs of change, some headline trains were being accelerated but frequencies were low with only a few signs of clockface timetables appearing away from the Southern and some other suburban services. But generally it was a very sad and depressing time, the last traces of the Big Four and their romance were being erased and it was not clear that any improvements were on their way.


[1] Coal; railways; canals; docks and harbours; road transport; the Bank of England; civil aviation; international telecommunications (Cable and Wireless); electricity; gas; and steel.

[2] The NHS was a special case, but it was also not an industry.
 

Mr. SW

Member
Joined
13 Sep 2023
Messages
547
Location
Armchair
1973.
The Beeching (inspired) cuts had more or less finished. Trains were still grubby and ill-kempt from the age of steam. Rusting and tatty wagons everywhere. Withdrawal of the Blue Pullmans and the Brighton Belle. Hundreds of diesel locos now going to scrapyard following their steam predecessors. Rusting, weed-strewn sidings and stations. Battered and broken platforms with bus shelters on them. The orgy of demolition that took away some our finest station buildings. Dirt and fag-ends everywhere.

Then the IC125s appeared...
 

Magdalia

Established Member
Joined
1 Jan 2022
Messages
7,402
Location
The Fens
British Railway's financial results had been deteriorating since 1952 and by 1955 it was not even covering its direct operating costs; from breaking even at an operating level in 1952 the losses increased every year to reach £100 million by 1962. (Some £2,500 million today).
This may be the period of most rapid decline, but things got worse, so it isn't the lowest ebb. The railway was still moving huge amounts of freight, especially coal.
I would say around 1967. Beeching had taken big bites out of the network and even lines that weren’t listed , such as Oxford-Cambridge, were going, motorway building was in full swing.
1967 had completion of the WCML and Bournemouth electrifications, accelerated ECML timings, elimination of steam traction almost complete, introduction of air braked loco hauled coaches, build up of merry go round delivering coal to the Aire and Trent power stations. And the motorway programme wasn't in sull swing: it took until 1969 to get to 1000 miles of motorway, and that was basically just most of the M1, most of the M6, and a few more bits.
 

LMS 4F

Member
Joined
11 Aug 2019
Messages
420
This may be the period of most rapid decline, but things got worse, so it isn't the lowest ebb. The railway was still moving huge amounts of freight, especially coal.

1967 had completion of the WCML and Bournemouth electrifications, accelerated ECML timings, elimination of steam traction almost complete, introduction of air braked loco hauled coaches, build up of merry go round delivering coal to the Aire and Trent power stations. And the motorway programme wasn't in sull swing: it took until 1969 to get to 1000 miles of motorway, and that was basically just most of the M1, most of the M6, and a few more bits.
As a soldier from 1963 on wards I used the railway frequently until the end of 1967 when I was posted overseas.
On a Sunday evening I would go to a Bedford Midland to get a train to London. I never bothered with a timetable, I just turned up and waited to see what arrived. The service was appalling and I and some colleagues thought at the time that on a Sunday the whole thing was run by the staff on a Buggins rota.
The journey to Tidworth was by coach from near to Waterloo as it ran later than the trains, it was cheaper and got us right to the camp.
The railway in that time was bad Enough but don’t mention the ferries from Harwivh to the Hook of Holland run by BR at that time.
 

Gloster

Veteran Member
Joined
4 Sep 2020
Messages
13,028
Location
Up the creek
1967 had completion of the WCML and Bournemouth electrifications, accelerated ECML timings, elimination of steam traction almost complete, introduction of air braked loco hauled coaches, build up of merry go round delivering coal to the Aire and Trent power stations. And the motorway programme wasn't in sull swing: it took until 1969 to get to 1000 miles of motorway, and that was basically just most of the M1, most of the M6, and a few more bits.

But how many of these, other than the obvious earthworks thrown up by motorway building, were obvious to the general public, not just the railway industry and enthusiasts? Even the biggest of them, the WCML electrification, was not the equivalent of the dramatic first step of the electrification from Crewe to Liverpool and Manchester. To the great majority of the population the railways were just out of date and declining, compared to the new motorways and your shiny new Dagenham Dustbin.
 

yorksrob

Veteran Member
Joined
6 Aug 2009
Messages
44,386
Location
Yorks
But how many of these, other than the obvious earthworks thrown up by motorway building, were obvious to the general public, not just the railway industry and enthusiasts? Even the biggest of them, the WCML electrification, was not the equivalent of the dramatic first step of the electrification from Crewe to Liverpool and Manchester. To the great majority of the population the railways were just out of date and declining, compared to the new motorways and your shiny new Dagenham Dustbin.

The electrification and diesel-electrification schemes on the Southern Region in the 60's were pretty comprehensive. Coupled with the replacement of the pre-war electrics, the region must have seemed pretty modern in the 1960's, although the worst of the closures were beginning to kick in.
 

edwin_m

Veteran Member
Joined
21 Apr 2013
Messages
28,694
Location
Nottingham
Even the biggest of them, the WCML electrification, was not the equivalent of the dramatic first step of the electrification from Crewe to Liverpool and Manchester.
It did however reach London in the later stages, thus became visible to "opinion formers". It also included the massive and controversial rebuilding of Euston.
 

coppercapped

Established Member
Joined
13 Sep 2015
Messages
3,334
Location
Reading
Regardless of the completion of the Euston-Birmingham-Manchester-Liverpool electrification in 1966 and the extension of the Southern Region's electrification in Kent and to Bournemouth global passenger numbers continued to decline over the next 15 years from just over 800 million in 1966/7 to just over 600 million in 1981/2.

It is not surprising that there was little capital spending in that period.

Added in edit: But I remain by my assertion that the nadir was the decade from 1955. After the false dawn of the Modernisation Plan nothing seemed to get better or that the system was even capable of improvement. At least by the early 1980s one could see that things could be changed.
 
Last edited:

deltic

Established Member
Joined
8 Feb 2010
Messages
3,719
1984/5, the miners strike and the increasing deindustrialisation of the economy which saw freight traffic decline. Led to major drive to improve productivity eg flexible rostering dispute which probably didn't deliver the benefits hoped for.
 

hwl

Established Member
Joined
5 Feb 2012
Messages
8,266
1982.

Lowest year for passenger numbers.
First full year of reduced services after the 1981 timetable cuts.
First full year after end of collect and deliver parcels.
Impact of decline in UK manufacturing on freight.
Very little new investment.
Strikes over flexible rostering and driver only operation.
Serpell Report.
Also agreed
 

nw1

Established Member
Joined
9 Aug 2013
Messages
9,430
I guess the most obvious answer, if we're picking a single year, is surely 2020, but presumably that was a one-off due to Covid and can be discounted?

It's quite hard to be completely objective on this to be honest, as we are bringing our own experience to the table. Having missed Beeching by many years, I have fond memories of the 80s but for someone who came to the railway in the early 50s and grew up with steam and the pre-Beeching network, I can imagine that anything from 1965 onwards would have been disappointing.
 
Last edited:

hexagon789

Veteran Member
Joined
2 Sep 2016
Messages
18,324
Location
Glasgow
I guess the most obvious answer, if we're picking a single year, is surely 2020, but presumably that was a one-off due to Covid and can be discounted?
I think you have to ask what would have happened without COVID and try to extrapolate from there.
 

nw1

Established Member
Joined
9 Aug 2013
Messages
9,430
I think you have to ask what would have happened without COVID and try to extrapolate from there.

I can imagine the railway would have been in a very good place indeed by now, with the only problems being overcrowding, both of passengers and of track.
SWR for example would, I imagine, be frantically trying to implement some way of squeezing still more trains into Waterloo in the peak for example - as I believe the plan was to do before Covid came along. Maybe we would have seen the start of seriously planning Crossrail 2 as a way of diverting the suburbans off the classic lines to free up more paths for additional long-distance services.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top