First Group win new London Overground Concession

[GilfachFargoed]

They know the gravy train has long since left the station, so now they want nationalisation to harmonise contracts based on the highest-paying TOCs.

I strongly suspect that they are hoping for a future organisational structure that enables 'national' GBR strikes, rather than the fragmented arrangement that has helped to mitigate these over the past 30 years.

 

[jon81uk]

Done a bit more digging in TfL Board papers and it seems that although rail fares are frozen, mayor and TfL will be raising fares CPI +1% for at least 5 years (agreed to get Thamesmead DLR extension). Not that it will affect First Group as the revenue risk is on TfL

This was a clause added to the funding agreement by the last Conservative government when TfL needed money as fare revenue is down following the pandemic.
Its not really the Mayor raising the fares, he is obliged to as the government insisted on it.

 

[ainsworth74]

I'm not entirely convinced that RMT policy in relation to nationalisation and privatisation is particularly on topic here so I would request that we leave it there for this thread thank you!

 

[bicbasher]

To bring it back to London Overground, the concession format has largely worked for passengers. TfL were very quick to instruct Arriva Rail London to reinstate the normal timetable while DfT managed TOCs cut services to the bone and in some cases haven't reinstated pre Covid levels of service to this day.

 

[JamesT]

To bring it back to London Overground, the concession format has largely worked for passengers. TfL were very quick to instruct Arriva Rail London to reinstate the normal timetable while DfT managed TOCs cut services to the bone and in some cases haven't reinstated pre Covid levels of service to this day.

Since the end of the franchise system with Covid, the operators are effectively running under a concession system. Government takes revenue risk and the TOCs are far more limited in decisions they can take independently.

 

[Starmill]

This was a clause added to the funding agreement by the last Conservative government when TfL needed money as fare revenue is down following the pandemic.

I don't think that's correct. Alexander has renegotiated this with them.

 

[Watershed]

I don't think that's correct. Alexander has renegotiated this with them.

What is the current clause?

 

[jon81uk]

I don't think that's correct. Alexander has renegotiated this with them.

What is the current situation then as all the news outlets are still reporting a 5.8% increase (RPI is 4.8%).

Londoners slapped with 5.8% rise in Tube fares despite national rail ticket freeze | LBC

TfL is also forecast to generate more than £1bn next year from road-user charges, including the Ulez, congestion charge and tolls for the Silvertown and Blackwall tunnels

www.lbc.co.uk

TfL rail fares to go up in 2026 as 'part of Government expectations'

London Underground, Overground and Elizabeth line fares all set to increase.

www.railmagazine.com

and the press release dated 11 December from the Mayor states

The Government has made clear it expects TfL fares to rise by RPI+1 as part of its £2.2bn capital funding deal for TfL

Mayor announces plans for 2026 TfL fares package, including a further freeze, for the seventh time, to bus and tram fares until July funded by City Hall

The Mayor of London, Sadiq Khan, has announced plans today for Transport for London (TfL) fares in 2026, keeping them as affordable as possible.

www.london.gov.uk

 

[Starmill]

What is the current situation then as all the news outlets are still reporting a 5.8% increase (RPI is 4.8%).

Londoners slapped with 5.8% rise in Tube fares despite national rail ticket freeze | LBC

TfL is also forecast to generate more than £1bn next year from road-user charges, including the Ulez, congestion charge and tolls for the Silvertown and Blackwall tunnels

www.lbc.co.uk

TfL rail fares to go up in 2026 as 'part of Government expectations'

London Underground, Overground and Elizabeth line fares all set to increase.

www.railmagazine.com

and the press release dated 11 December from the Mayor states

Mayor announces plans for 2026 TfL fares package, including a further freeze, for the seventh time, to bus and tram fares until July funded by City Hall

The Mayor of London, Sadiq Khan, has announced plans today for Transport for London (TfL) fares in 2026, keeping them as affordable as possible.

www.london.gov.uk

No sorry I didn't mean it changes the end result, just poor wording. The same price increases are still driven by Alexander as they were by the previous government, but to fund different things.

 

[thelongestroad]

This isn't a post for opening up an argument for or against private companies operating LO - but what exactly does FG (or any other transport company) bring to the party? Why cannot it be operated as its own entity owned by TfL like the tube?

 

[Andrew1395]

This isn't a post for opening up an argument for or against private companies operating LO - but what exactly does FG (or any other transport company) bring to the party? Why cannot it be operated as its own entity owned by TfL like the tube?

I think it’s the law. Wasn’t the 1993 Railways act changed so that London and Merseyside took powers from the Strategic Rail Authority to be able to let the “franchise” in their areas of influence. With the DfT gaining those SRA powers for the rest of England? Maybe GBR will not regain that power with the latest amendments to the 1993 Act when it is established by law, and TfL have to let the concession rather than run London Overground itself.

That might all wrong. So one else will know. If right though, one wonders who steps in if the concessionaire fails.

 

[bicbasher]

Apparently the upgrade on the Windrush will be Highbury & Islington to Crystal Palace first in December 2026 with Dalston Junction to Clapham Junction in 2029.

I'm assuming that the signal upgrades allow 10tph to terminate at Highbury & Islington?

 

[rmHawk765]

I'm not sure if TfL would want GBR running the London Overground and Elizabeth Line. If anything it''d be better for them to be either inhouse or a joint venture.

Definitely, but I don't think there's anything at the minute to say GBR will take them over?

 

[Farnborough]

I'm not sure if TfL would want GBR running the London Overground and Elizabeth Line. If anything it''d be better for them to be either inhouse or a joint venture.

The Elizabeth Line is already a Joint Venture - owned (I believe 50:50) by Transport for London (TfL) and the Department for Transport (DfT) through Crossrail Limited...

 

[Snow1964]

The Elizabeth Line is already a Joint Venture - owned (I believe 50:50) by Transport for London (TfL) and the Department for Transport (DfT) through Crossrail Limited...

Companies House for Crossrail Limited shows a parent company guarantee from Transport Trading Ltd. TT Ltd seems to be a subsidiary of TfL

Crossrail Ltd accounts now refer to it as a wholly owned subsidiary of TT Ltd. However TT Ltd allotted 560m extra shares in 2022, and allotted 840m B shares in 2023 so has been some sort of restructure.

 

[Ian Hardy]

Companies House for Crossrail Limited shows a parent company guarantee from Transport Trading Ltd. TT Ltd seems to be a subsidiary of TfL

Crossrail Ltd accounts now refer to it as a wholly owned subsidiary of TT Ltd. However TT Ltd allotted 560m extra shares in 2022, and allotted 840m B shares in 2023 so has been some sort of restructure.

Transport Trading Ltd is a subsidiary of TfL.

When TfL used to produce proper bus timetable panel sheets rather than the stop specific ones they do now, TfL offered a subscription service and the cheques had to be made payable to Transport Trading Ltd.

 

[Watershed]

The Elizabeth Line is already a Joint Venture - owned (I believe 50:50) by Transport for London (TfL) and the Department for Transport (DfT) through Crossrail Limited...

The infrastructure is owned by Network Rail on the GWML/GEML, and by Rail for London Infrastructure (a TfL subsidiary) in the 'core' and Abbey Wood branch.

The operation is a concession which recently changed over to GTS, a consortium of Govia, Tokyo Metro and Sumitomo Corp.

Crossrail Limited was the company responsible for the line's development, much like EWR, HS1 and HS2.

 

[Goldfish62]

Transport Trading Ltd is a subsidiary of TfL.

When TfL used to produce proper bus timetable panel sheets rather than the stop specific ones they do now, TfL offered a subscription service and the cheques had to be made payable to Transport Trading Ltd.

Yes, Transport Trading Ltd was incorporated in January 2000 along with the other TfL subsidiaries of the time.

 

[bicbasher]

While commuting tonight I noticed the grab poles are now Windrush red and grey on top on the 378 I was on.