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£2.5bn Leeds Tram plan delayed after government review

Nicholas Lewis

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BBC have a report that Leeds tram network is being subjected to more government review and will now be delayed until late 2030's

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c78vrzpzle2o

A planned tram system for West Yorkshire has been delayed after the government carried out a review of the project.
West Yorkshire Combined Authority (WYCA) had hoped that trams would be running on two lines in Leeds and Bradford in the early 2030s, however it is now likely to be the late 2030s.
The government had promised £2.1bn for the mass transit system, but has now told WYCA to take a more thorough approach to the development of the scheme.
West Yorkshire's mayor Tracy Brabin said she was frustrated by the delay, but added that she still believed the tram system would be in place eventually and there remained a "commitment" to ensure it happened.
To speed up delivery of the project, WYCA had hoped to plan the detail of the route while also submitting the business case for the system to the government, but it has now agreed to separate those two elements of the process.
Brabin said: "The review has advised that we take a more sequential approach.
"We had been running an innovative dual-track approach with the planning and the business case at the same time - and there was a risk to that.
Seems a perfectly sensible approach to have taken given the wide political support for this scheme but yet again central government comes up lets have another review and before we know its delayed and now subject to complete cancellation if the worst outcome materialises in 2029 general election.
 
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Andyh82

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I imagine Brabin’s response might have been a tad stronger if the Tories were still in Westminster

Nobody in West Yorkshire ever thought it was going to happen but she was adamant that it was definitely happening this time
 

ainsworth74

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BBC have a report that Leeds tram network is being subjected to more government review and will now be delayed until late 2030's

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c78vrzpzle2o


Seems a perfectly sensible approach to have taken given the wide political support for this scheme but yet again central government comes up lets have another review and before we know its delayed and now subject to complete cancellation if the worst outcome materialises in 2029 general election.
Classic Treasury Brain nonsense (see my signature for my feelings on HM Treasury). They will persist on refusing to proceed with anything other than breadcrumbs of infrastructure in the North (and elsewhere!) despite the fact that this become a self-reinforcing death spiral for the economies of the country outside of London and the South East. We have a band of cities stretching from Liverpool to Manchester to Leeds to Hull/Newcastle (with others in between like Huddersfield, Bradford, Wigan, York, etc) which should be an engine of the UK economy. But over multiple decades Government after Government, following the advice of their Treasury civil servants, come to the conclusion that significant infrastructure investment in North (and elsewhere) needs to be curtailed and restrained.

And then there's surprise when the North (and elsewhere) lags so far behind London and the South East?

A pox on the whole lot of them. This country is doomed because its leadership has failed to invest in the sinews and muscles that would enable economic growth over decades and now, as far as I'm concerned, we're finished. We can't even get funding together to build a sodding tram system in what is top ten largest urban area in the UK. No instead lets have yet another review which will report years from now. And then when that finds out that yes we should build something we'll say oh yes what a good idea and then someone else will come along and decide there should be another review. Until eventually the whole country disintegrates because we refuse to build anything but the odd new station here and there.

I'm sick of it. A pox on the lot of them. At this point I reckon Russia could invade the Isle of Wight and the Treasury would veto any military response because attempting to reclaim the Isle of Wight would be poor value for money.
 

Howardh

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Gutted for everyone who lives/works around Leeds/Bradford. Not only an industrial/business city, also quite a tourist attraction these days, and as I'm one the lack of quick urban transport puts me off.
Wonder if Burnham had been the mayor would this have gone ahead much quicker?
 

NCT

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Not surprised. Never been convinced by the network as proposed. The economically sensible thing would be to metrofy the heavy rail routes - get rid of the LNER extensions and run all lines as identical stopping pattern high(er) frequency. There's room to the north of the existing Leeds station and western approaches for relatively inexpensive additional terminating platforms and approach tracks if required.
 

HSTEd

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Another decade of paralysis, fairly typical for Britain in the modern day.
 

Andyh82

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Also wasn’t it announced only recently that the revamp of Forster Square station was being delayed to tie into the tram works. I suppose that is delayed indefinitely as well now
 

Cell2025

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Also wasn’t it announced only recently that the revamp of Forster Square station was being delayed to tie into the tram works. I suppose that is delayed indefinitely as well now
It's almost as if it were planned that way...
 

Norm_D_Ploom

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I imagine Brabin’s response might have been a tad stronger if the Tories were still in Westminster

Nobody in West Yorkshire ever thought it was going to happen but she was adamant that it was definitely happening this time
How very cynical, but incredibly accurate, of you !!
 

generalnerd

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Classic British stagnation. Are we ever going to build anything?

Also, providing this is the next light rail to open (which it might not be if the VLR is successful) that would be quite a gap between light rails opening. 20 years I think it would end up being…. I’ll have to double check. (I checked and it would be, if it was beyond 2034)
 

yorksrob

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Leeds is a tricky City anyway for public transport. Too much of the urban area has never had a separated rail infrastructure. I think that if I were going to build a tram in WYorks, I'd put it up through Hyde Park towards Headingley where the old one used to be. Even then you run into the congested Otley road after Hyde Park.
 

WillC

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For those of us in Leeds this is a long-standing joke. I’ve lost count have the number of super-trams we’ve been getting. Good for the PowerPoint brigade though. The daft thing is it could be solved pretty quickly and easily if we just got rid of cars from the city centres and replaced them with frequent, cheap, and maybe electric, buses.
 

Meole

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Business case is essential before committing so much public finance to a high risk project in an area that is well served by the bus network and Northern Rail, lessons from past and current overrun projects have finally been learnt.
 

nr758123

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There's an article in today's Guardian by Tom Forth, in which he points out the way history repeats itself where transport projects in Leeds are concerned.

He has a simple solution, which many of us in West Yorkshire and elsewhere in the North can identify with.
We need the British government, its experts, and our national institutions, overwhelmingly in London, to get out of the way.
Link is https://www.theguardian.com/comment...yorkshire-tram-network-delayed-leeds-bradford
 

Cell2025

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Business case is essential before committing so much public finance to a high risk project in an area that is well served by the bus network and Northern Rail, lessons from past and current overrun projects have finally been learnt.
We're talking about West Yorkshire here aren't we? If so, RAFLMO.
 

Harpers Tate

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The very fact it has been delayed will, in itself, cause an increase in cost. Happens over and over where politicians are always way too slow to commit to anything and so doing (if/when they eventually do commit) costs.

(Off topic but for illustration)
Re-opening DSA (airport) projected to cost £193 million. How much would it have cost to keep it open starting the day after it closed?
 

danielnez1

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The fact that outside of London, the fact that only Glasgow, Liverpool and Newcastle have any sort of underground rail system is utter insanity as well.
 

LLivery

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Business case is essential before committing so much public finance to a high risk project in an area that is well served by the bus network and Northern Rail, lessons from past and current overrun projects have finally been learnt.

By delaying and needlessly pushing up costs?

Business Cases in this country are full of ridiculous bureaucracy, which normally take a questionable and pessimistic angle, which is a perfect reason for the oh-so-wise HMT to use it's favourite word, 'no'.

Nothing has been learnt. Nothing.

You want to learn about building infra in regional towns and cities, learn from France and take the capital city out of the equation.
 
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Bertie the bus

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Business case is essential before committing so much public finance to a high risk project in an area that is well served by the bus network and Northern Rail, lessons from past and current overrun projects have finally been learnt.
I agree that business cases are essential but that isn’t really the point. The point is the government will have been well aware of what WYCA was doing when it announced the scheme was going ahead. In fact the government may well have encouraged that approach so it could announce the scheme in a blaze of publicity and then have a reason to quietly defer/scrap it at a later date or to re-announce it just before the next election.

That, as far as I’m concerned is the issue. Not whether WYCA were going about it like a bunch of amateurs.
 

thejuggler

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Brabin doesn't have the one luxury Burnham has. It is accepted across the whole of his city region area that Manchester/Salford is the economic powerhouse and investment is made to serve that area.

Brabin isn't brave enough to say the same about Leeds, despite it being acknowledged in all the strategy documents. Its this reluctance and 'try and please everyone approach' which has lead to the first tram route idea linking Bradford and Leeds, with one route using an old rail track bed which now crosses acres of green belt.

Leeds needs a tram more than Bradford does. despite comments above bus routes are poor and hugely overcrowded and that should have been the focus for the first routes.
 

Chester1

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Brabin doesn't have the one luxury Burnham has. It is accepted across the whole of his city region area that Manchester/Salford is the economic powerhouse and investment is made to serve that area.

Brabin isn't brave enough to say the same about Leeds, despite it being acknowledged in all the strategy documents. Its this reluctance and 'try and please everyone approach' which has lead to the first tram route idea linking Bradford and Leeds, with one route using an old rail track bed which now crosses acres of green belt.

Leeds needs a tram more than Bradford does. despite comments above bus routes are poor and hugely overcrowded and that should have been the focus for the first routes.

I remember David Cameron getting caught on mic after a meeting of West Yorkshire Council leaders saying something like "I knew they hated us but I didn’t realise they hated each other more." It got an angry reaction because it was too close to the truth. Greater Manchester got investment under the Tories because of a joint local front, holding their nose with the Tories and because Greater Manchester had built up a good reputation on development. The other major cities in the North missed one or all of these factors. Greater Manchester managed to build momentum to the extent that it became self sustaining. The gross value added of Greater Manchester was 18% below the UK average in 2016 but will probably exceed the average in 2028. I think the mistake was to try a dedicated tram line first rather than pick a heavy rail line for tram trains. A South Wales Metro style network would have been easier to get funding for. The proposal should have been less than a mile of street running and a depot to kick the can down the road with Leeds station capacity. An incremental approach to building a proper network could have gone from there.
 

daodao

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BBC have a report that Leeds tram network is being subjected to more government review and will now be delayed until late 2030's

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c78vrzpzle2o

Seems a perfectly sensible approach to have taken given the wide political support for this scheme but yet again central government comes up lets have another review and before we know its delayed and now subject to complete cancellation if the worst outcome materialises in 2029 general election.
The current proposed scheme's rationale seems dubious, and at least partly based on the feeling that West Yorkshire ought to have a light rail system as most other metropolitan areas in Britain already have one. Other than providing a rail service to St James's Hospital, the proposed network doesn't serve any other key points that either merit a rail link or don't already have or will have one.

There are already frequent trains (4tph) from Leeds to Bradford Exchange, with intermediate stops at Bramley and New Pudsey, which are quicker than any possible light rail service. A rail service with at least 2 tph is planned to be provided for the White Rose Centre fairly soon.

Therefore, it seems eminently reasonable to pause the proposals, as the business case for the current scheme is likely to be poor.
 
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WillC

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I’ve never quite got the obsession with light rail over decent buses. The former needs lots of expensive infrastructure and maybe looks cool, but buses can be good too - if the council could bite the bullet and exclude person cars from the city centres. Clean, electric buses, all over the place, so frequent you don’t need a timetable, £2.50 a pop… we could do this tomorrow (give or take) for a pittance.
 

Grimsby town

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I’ve never quite got the obsession with light rail over decent buses. The former needs lots of expensive infrastructure and maybe looks cool, but buses can be good too - if the council could bite the bullet and exclude person cars from the city centres. Clean, electric buses, all over the place, so frequent you don’t need a timetable, £2.50 a pop… we could do this tomorrow (give or take) for a pittance.
If the aim is to achieve modal shift and improve journey times/reliability, which it should be as that's what's going to drive improvements in economic performance, then trams are probably the way. It could be achieved with buses but its going to require significant investment infrastructure to segregate them from general traffic.

Tram routes in the UK have typically achieved modal shift from cars of 20-30% while the Glider bus route in Belfast achieved 8-9% modal shift. Glider was far cheaper to implement though so basically you get what you pay for.
 

Metrider

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I’ve never quite got the obsession with light rail over decent buses. The former needs lots of expensive infrastructure and maybe looks cool, but buses can be good too - if the council could bite the bullet and exclude person cars from the city centres. Clean, electric buses, all over the place, so frequent you don’t need a timetable, £2.50 a pop… we could do this tomorrow (give or take) for a pittance.
I really like the system they have in Rennes (France). It basically has the benefits of both buses and rail. Short two-car "trains" that run on rubber tyres. Guided, driverless, turning up every 80 seconds. Metro-like stations with barriers, contactless payment. You don't need to build real "tracks" as they can run on metal or concrete. The trains are often busy/full, but they come so often that you can always confidently wait for the next one (as opposed to less frequent or reliable services where you might be inclined to squeeze onto an already packed car, in case the next one doesn't turn up!).

Doesn't seem like it should be beyond the wit for a place like Leeds, with twice the population of Rennes?
 

Cell2025

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The current proposed scheme's rationale seems dubious, and at least partly based on the feeling that West Yorkshire ought to have a light rail system as most other metropolitan areas in Britain already have one. Other than providing a rail service to St James's Hospital, the proposed network doesn't serve any other key points that either merit a rail link or don't already have or will have one.

There are already frequent trains (4tph) from Leeds to Bradford Exchange, with intermediate stops at Bramley and New Pudsey, which are quicker than any possible light rail service. A rail service with at least 2 tph is planned to be provided for the White Rose Centre fairly soon.

Therefore, it seems eminently reasonable to pause the proposals, as the business case for the current scheme is likely to be poor.
One of the major problems in Leeds (and it may be the case in other cities, but I'm not so familiar with them) is that services radiate out of the centre (both train and bus) but getting from stops on one route to another radial arm can't be done without passing through the centre.

As an example I live five miles out of Leeds and just under six miles from Horsforth as the crow flies (the former in a westerly direction, the latter a north westerly), but by public transport, right now as I type, the quickest I can do it on public transport is 1 hr 21 minutes. Google says that it would take the average person just four minutes more to walk it. To drive would take 15 minutes, No incentive to go there via any other method of transportation.

The tram plans would have done nothing at all to alleviate this rather ludicrous position. As the above post says there would if anything have been duplication of existing services.

The basics are wrong, and I do wonder whether it's now possible to create a viable mass transport system given the consistently occupied nature of the ribbon development that is so prevalent around here.
 

WillC

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I really like the system they have in Rennes (France). It basically has the benefits of both buses and rail. Short two-car "trains" that run on rubber tyres. Guided, driverless, turning up every 80 seconds. Metro-like stations with barriers, contactless payment. You don't need to build real "tracks" as they can run on metal or concrete. The trains are often busy/full, but they come so often that you can always confidently wait for the next one (as opposed to less frequent or reliable services where you might be inclined to squeeze onto an already packed car, in case the next one doesn't turn up!).

Doesn't seem like it should be beyond the wit for a place like Leeds, with twice the population of Rennes?
Exactly! And driverless too.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

If the aim is to achieve modal shift and improve journey times/reliability, which it should be as that's what's going to drive improvements in economic performance, then trams are probably the way. It could be achieved with buses but its going to require significant investment infrastructure to segregate them from general traffic.

Tram routes in the UK have typically achieved modal shift from cars of 20-30% while the Glider bus route in Belfast achieved 8-9% modal shift. Glider was far cheaper to implement though so basically you get what you pay for.
But this is my point, if you get rid of cars, there is ample space for reliable buses. Which in Leeds just now is not possible because of cars, largely containing a single person, going in the same direction at the same time. The rate of progress of exiting the 'Motorway city of the 70s' mantra (I kid you not) is taking far too long. We've only just pedestrianised (half-heartedly) City Square, after 20 years of thinking about it. There's no reason* to use a car to get in and out of the city centre. Like someone else noted above though, we'd need much improved cross-city buses to make useful links, e.g. turn it into a classic orb web.
 

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