Steel rail - Is it not worth recycling?

[Kennel]

Is the thousands of tons of replaced rail lying next to the permanent way worth so little that it is not worth recycling?

 

[Ashley Hill]

Probably costs as much to recover it.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Surely it is better to cost money and recycle rather than leaving clutter on the railway?

 

[Ashley Hill]

Surely it is better to cost money and recycle rather than leaving clutter on the railway?

Definitely, less hazards, less for vandals.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Definitely, less hazards, less for vandals.

Precisely. I hate clutter.

 

[Benjwri]

I saw the canal near Gloucester has used old rail to reinforce the bank recently!

 

[D6130]

I saw the canal near Gloucester has used old rail to reinforce the bank recently!

That's quite common on canals around the country.... presumably dating from the days when the canals were owned by railway companies.

 

[sh24]

Scrap steel is about £120/tonne, and I think a tonne is a 60ft length. Imagine the cost of collecting the steel would significantly outweigh any cash return.

 

[Taunton]

Scrap steel is about £120/tonne, and I think a tonne is a 60ft length. Imagine the cost of collecting the steel would significantly outweigh any cash return.

Well a skip cost me a good amount to take away builders rubble from works on my house, didn't even get anything for it. Guess I should have just thrown it all out in the road.

 

[edwin_m]

Sometimes the rail has been dropped ready for a future re-railing but not used yet, or has been replaced but not yet removed, due to limited time within the possession or other logistical constraints. Critical junctions may have spare switches and crossings left alongside so if one fails it can be replaced quickly. So rail that may appear to have been abandoned may not in fact be.

 

[The Planner]

Well a skip cost me a good amount to take away builders rubble from works on my house, didn't even get anything for it. Guess I should have just thrown it all out in the road.

How is that comparable, you don't own the road. If you said you chucked it on your own drive and left it because you didn't fancy paying for a skip then maybe.

 

[brad465]

Sometimes the rail has been dropped ready for a future re-railing but not used yet, or has been replaced but not yet removed, due to limited time within the possession or other logistical constraints. Critical junctions may have spare switches and crossings left alongside so if one fails it can be replaced quickly. So rail that may appear to have been abandoned may not in fact be.

I wish Network Rail did this for every junction in the Lewisham area.

Colton Junction is an example of this, though I believe it's stored in the hut next to the junction so isn't actually visible.

 

[birchesgreen]

Surely it is better to cost money and recycle rather than leaving clutter on the railway?

No apparently its better to save money today even if it'll end up costing more money later on (see also the disgraceful state of vegetation on the network).

But of course it'll be someone else's problem by then.

 

[bspahh]

No apparently its better to save money today even if it'll end up costing more money later on (see also the disgraceful state of vegetation on the network).

Leaving vegetation to grow means that the problem gets worse. Unused rails don't cause much of a problem if they are left in place. You might be able to clear them away with some others in the future, and then you will have saved some money.

 

[JKF]

If the scrap price is rising faster than inflation and wages, better leaving them for later.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Strategically , useful lengths have always been kept handy for re-use , saves moving in from relatively afar.

 

[zwk500]

No apparently its better to save money today even if it'll end up costing more money later on (see also the disgraceful state of vegetation on the network).

But of course it'll be someone else's problem by then.

Part of the problem is the way that budgest are often linked to defined time periods of spend.

Although the other problems people have mentioned about possession overrun etc, obviously are an issue.

Surely it is better to cost money and recycle rather than leaving clutter on the railway?

NR generally does clear the rails to recycling as shown by how much rail *isnt* left to the side.

However the rail is heavy and I suspect that lifting it from the cess to a wagon requires a piece of plant on site to do so. If time is getting short on an possession and the JCB is needed elsewhere in the job for whatever reason, its easy to see why the rail might be left. Once its left, arranging for a brand new possession (including the people, plant and gap in trains) purely to pick up old rails is unlikely to be seen as best use of limited funds.

Some rail, such as the old track panels left at the side of the Severn beach line, are now heavily swamped in vegetation and well-set trees.

 

[Russel]

Probably costs as much to recover it.

It has to be moved at some point though, like when it's time to replace sleepers and ballast etc?

 

[zwk500]

It has to be moved at some point though, like when it's time to replace sleepers and ballast etc?

If you need to be on site anyway, grabbing it while you're there is a lot easier to arrange than a specific trip.

A (probably rather tortured) comparison could be that you go out shopping and cant find something, but are short on time so have to leave it and get home. Most people wouldnt make a specific trip back out for just one item, but if you passed by the shop on the way home from work you might pop in the next evening on your way past to grab it.

 

[Ashley Hill]

If you need to be on site anyway, grabbing it while you're there is a lot easier to arrange than a specific trip

If I understand correctly, the Cornish re-signalling did not include recoveries to keep costs down. Hence several redundant posts, wire runs and rod runs remains in place at Par and Lostwithiel. Could this be the case why so much old rail is left lying around?

 

[MadMac]

The Southern used to make signal posts from old rail.

 

[alxndr]

If you need to be on site anyway, grabbing it while you're there is a lot easier to arrange than a specific trip.

A (probably rather tortured) comparison could be that you go out shopping and cant find something, but are short on time so have to leave it and get home. Most people wouldnt make a specific trip back out for just one item, but if you passed by the shop on the way home from work you might pop in the next evening on your way past to grab it.

This is what tends to happen around here. If machines are out, say for a switch replacement, any spare time is used to collect scrap. Gets the money's worth out of the machines as well.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

When steel production is entirely from scrap metal by electric arc furnaces, as is intended, maybe the problem will disappear.

 

[Ploughman]

Does anyone want to put a price on the cost of a length of rail left on the track that caused a fatal derailment?

 

[zwk500]

Does anyone want to put a price on the cost of a length of rail left on the track that caused a fatal derailment?

The rails would be moved to a safe position before the line is handed back. However rails weigh upwards of 56kg/m, they're not going to suddenly jump around. The bigger danger of rails not being collected is to lineside staff with rails stacked in the cess.

 

[Rescars]

The Southern used to make signal posts from old rail.

The Southern was expert at recycling before the term had been invented. Conversions of loco hauled stock into multiple units and power cars into goods brake vans were other specialities! No doubt other uses for redundant rail were found in addition to signal posts.

 

[zwk500]

The Southern was expert at recycling before the term had been invented. Conversions of loco hauled stock into multiple units and power cars into goods brake vans were other specialities! No doubt other uses for redundant rail were found in addition to signal posts.

buffer stops and fencing were also made from old rails.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Does anyone want to put a price on the cost of a length of rail left on the track that caused a fatal derailment?

Just bear in mind that as recently as last year there was a high speed derailment near Walton-on-Thames because of a botch-up as part of a scrap rail recovery operation. So it has to be done properly. In a hurry, at night, in a bit of slack time from another job completed swiftly isn’t always a good idea.

 

[Ian79]

buffer stops and fencing were also made from old rails.

Yes, until pretty recently some of the fencing in Hackbridge station car park was made of old rail painted yellow:

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[LYradial]

Do we actually have a steelworks capable of recycling used rail, two of them are being bailed out by the government with an uncertain and unprofitable future and the third is currently only using imported steel slab.

maybe we should just leave it there as a strategic reserve for when we can no longer import steel