Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway: progress updates

[norbitonflyer]

the plan was announced in March 2027 (nearly 9 years ago)

I know time passes faster as you get older, but I don't think I've missed an entire decade!

 

[Stephen42]

But as another poster has observed, 68-70 x 10car are needed for the SWR suburban services, leaving only about 12 x 5car units (give or take a couple) spare. They would be much better employed on a restored Hounslow Loop service (83 minutes each way, so six trains required) .

Running the Hounslow loop services all day won't require six trains. They already run for several hours in the evening peak and a couple in the morning peak. It would be largely keeping units out all day, maybe one extra in the morning peak at most. Off peak improvements that run at peak are usually more about traincrew.

In other news, SWR have put out a press release with a little new information. Since May 2025 the morning peak has had 12% increase in surburban capacity through the increased 701 rollout. It does put a more easily tracked figure on the target released earlier this month "SWR plans to reach 50 Arterio diagrams in service by the end of Summer 2026 as set out by the Department for Transport on Tuesday 9 December".

 

[Goldfish62]

It does put a more easily tracked figure on the target released earlier this month "SWR plans to reach 50 Arterio diagrams in service by the end of Summer 2026 as set out by the Department for Transport on Tuesday 9 December".

That seems to be a fairly sedate pace of introduction, presumably reflecting the likelihood that the longer-stored units are likely to require more work to make them fit for service.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

That seems to be a fairly sedate pace of introduction, presumably reflecting the likelihood that the longer-stored units are likely to require more work to make them fit for service.

It’s probably largely to do with those diagrams including a number of 701/5 diagrams, which aren‘t due to be introduced until mid 26.

 

[Goldfish62]

It’s probably largely to do with those diagrams including a number of 701/5 diagrams, which aren‘t due to be introduced until mid 26.

Then what of all the remaining 701/0s? Couldn't they be introduced ahead of the 701/5s if they're ready before then? I imagine crew training will be finished by Spring.

 

[class701]

This is absolute rubbish from SWR "they have increased capacity by 12%". The service lately has been appalling. There is not a day that goes by without huge cancellations, short running or formation, skipping stations, or a general apathy and resignation of the service they are providing. They are down 50% on the pre-pandemic service level of 4tph across much of the network. Introducing just 30 units of a 90 unit order, ALL fitted with child seats and SIX years late is NOT an achievement. They cannot even tell you when the remaining 60 units will be in service. SWR are hopeless and make SWT look like a professional company. Your commute just got worse.

 

[JonathanH]

ALL fitted with child seats

What is that supposed to mean? Does it affect the capacity?

 

[Goldfish62]

This is absolute rubbish from SWR "they have increased capacity by 12%". The service lately has been appalling. There is not a day that goes by without huge cancellations, short running or formation, skipping stations, or a general apathy and resignation of the service they are providing. They are down 50% on the pre-pandemic service level of 4tph across much of the network. Introducing just 30 units of a 90 unit order, ALL fitted with child seats and SIX years late is NOT an achievement. They cannot even tell you when the remaining 60 units will be in service. SWR are hopeless and make SWT look like a professional company. Your commute just got worse.

I broadly agree, but suggest we should have a new thread to discuss SWR's performance. I'd certainly have a lot to say!

 

[class701]

The 701 seats are not wide enough for the average adult and have no room between both the side wall or the seat next to you. In effect, your shoulders are across 20% of the person sitting next to you. What else would a child seat mean?

 

[Bigfoot]

The 701 seats are not wide enough for the average adult and have no room between both the side wall or the seat next to you. In effect, your shoulders are across 20% of the person sitting next to you. What else would a child seat mean?

The rest of the world would most likely deem a child seat as an adapter for a child's body to fit safely restrained into a seat designed for an adult.

 

[Highview]

I'd rather the 701/5s are introduced as late as possible, I would not put it past SWR to routinely run a 5 car train in the peak saying due to a shortage of 10 car trains etc....

 

[nctd2306]

I'd rather the 701/5s are introduced as late as possible, I would not put it past SWR to routinely run a 5 car train in the peak saying due to a shortage of 10 car trains etc....

Which is exactly what's happened to 2C16 this week, hasn't been longer than five carriages since Monday (not really acceptable for such a busy service on a 2tph route).

 

[Stephen42]

Then what of all the remaining 701/0s? Couldn't they be introduced ahead of the 701/5s if they're ready before then? I imagine crew training will be finished by Spring.

There are 60 701s, as of March this year 59 were accepted by SWR. SWR are also meant to be progressing work to bring the DCO method of operation which would take one maybe two units. Perhaps a couple might be difficult to get into passenger service. If together those make 4 units, 90% utilisation of the 55 left would be 50 week day diagrams. They might be able to get a few more out of the 701/0s, but could understand if they included some contingency in the target they publicly announce.

Slowing the pace to deliver reliably makes sense. No service or a very short train is far worse than an 8-car 450 or 458. There are limited costs avoided by running more 701s once the 455s and 458/5s are gone. Could also save costs if less overtime is needed for a longer and thinner training programme or fleet resource to bring the trains into service plus maintain them.

 

[Feathers44]

There are 60 701s, as of March this year 59 were accepted by SWR. SWR are also meant to be progressing work to bring the DCO method of operation which would take one maybe two units. Perhaps a couple might be difficult to get into passenger service. If together those make 4 units, 90% utilisation of the 55 left would be 50 week day diagrams. They might be able to get a few more out of the 701/0s, but could understand if they included some contingency in the target they publicly announce.

Slowing the pace to deliver reliably makes sense. No service or a very short train is far worse than an 8-car 450 or 458. There are limited costs avoided by running more 701s once the 455s and 458/5s are gone. Could also save costs if less overtime is needed for a longer and thinner training programme or fleet resource to bring the trains into service plus maintain them.

On the suburban lines, I find that there’s very little that’s worse than an 8 car 450. Except a single unit. I like a train I can actually get on which generally means something with standing room.

 

[norbitonflyer]

What is that supposed to mean? Does it affect the capacity?

It does. The seats seem to be designed for the average person* (someone at SWT actually told me that) and are therefore too small for half the population. I'm only slightly above average height (5'9") and cannot sit in the airline seats on many trains without sitting askew, with my feet out in the gangway (or in the space my neighbour should be able to use, if I have a window seat).

Thus some seats go unoccupied because there are not enough people who can use them, resulting in a reduction in capacity as more people are standing and the empty seats are wasted space

*who doesn't exist - the average person would have one testicle, one ovary, and 1.999 legs.

 

[Stephen42]

A path has appeared for Tuesday to get the final 701 out of Marchwood

Realtime Trains | 5Q84 1056 Marchwood Mod Gbrf to Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs | 23/12/2025

Real-time train running information for 5Q84 1056 departure from Marchwood Mod Gbrf to Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs on 23/12/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Invincible]

This is absolute rubbish from SWR "they have increased capacity by 12%

Probably means longer 10 car trains with more standing room?

When the 707s were first running they had stickers saying the trains had more "space".

 

[SWT_USER]

Probably means longer 10 car trains with more standing room?

When the 707s were first running they had stickers saying the trains had more "space".

It's a fairly rubbish claim. Capacity across the SWR network has been slashed since 2020. This tiny increase barely registers, especially given it isn't true on most days as there are inevitably short forms on a daily basis.

 

[OneTrackMinded]

given it isn't true on most days as there are inevitably short forms on a daily basis.

Mind you, 701/0s can’t be shortformed. They are fixed 10 cars.

 

[Goldfish62]

It's a fairly rubbish claim. Capacity across the SWR network has been slashed since 2020. This tiny increase barely registers, especially given it isn't true on most days as there are inevitably short forms on a daily basis.

Indeed. Pre-Covid the Reading line had four 10 coach trains per hour for several hours across each peak. Now it has two 8-10 coach trains per hour, when they're not cancelled or skip stops because they're running only a few minutes late.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Indeed. Pre-Covid the Reading line had four 10 coach trains per hour for several hours across each peak. Now it has two 8-10 coach trains per hour, when they're not cancelled or skip stops because they're running only a few minutes late.

Calling @JonathanH! Another pesky SWR commuter like me who doesn’t realise that they don’t need to travel on the line anymore, as COVID happened

In seriousness though, the fact that most former 455s are now 701s (still got a lot of 450s to clear mind you!) is a great thing, however, it’s a very cheeky claim to brag about increasing capacity when they’ve still got some of the most brazen cuts to commuter routes nationwide in place. Epsom 4 and Hounslow 4 need restoring ASAP.

 

[Goldfish62]

In seriousness though, the fact that most former 455s are now 701s (still got a lot of 450s to clear mind you!) is a great thing, however, it’s a very cheeky claim to brag about increasing capacity when they’ve still got some of the most brazen cuts to commuter routes nationwide in place. Epsom 4 and Hounslow 4 need restoring ASAP.

And the Bracknell to Reading evening service restored to 2tph. Every single MP and council on the route have now called for this. Surely a very simple tweak that can be introduced in May. I don't buy the excuse that all timetable changes take X number of years to implement. As we saw during and after Covid timetable changes were done extremely quickly. It's not like it needs a full recast.

 

[Snow1964]

A path has appeared for Tuesday to get the final 701 out of Marchwood

Realtime Trains | 5Q84 1056 Marchwood Mod Gbrf to Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs | 23/12/2025

Real-time train running information for 5Q84 1056 departure from Marchwood Mod Gbrf to Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs on 23/12/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Am I correct in thinking after this, there will be about 32 passed for service, about 18 on SWR (but not yet fully passenger service ready), about 10 still in store in Warwickshire

Been so little news recently on 5car units, can't remember where they are, is it about 12 in SWR territory, and 18 elsewhere ?

 

[norbitonflyer]

This is absolute rubbish from SWR "they have increased capacity by 12%".

The 456s created space - a little under 25% (25% more carriages but 50% more driving cabs). The extra two cars also restored the number of seats to the pre-refurbishment total of the 8 car trains. The 707s a bit more by having only four cabs in a 10 car train.

12% more space might be beleivable if you you comparing a 701 with 2x455. It's only the equivalent of one extra carriage, and the 701s have two (and also only two cabs instead opf four), but some space is lost because of the toilets

 

[Goldfish62]

12% more space might be beleivable if you you comparing a 701 with 2x455. It's only the equivalent of one extra carriage, and the 701s have two (and also only two cabs instead opf four), but some space is lost because of the toilets

A lot more than one extra carriage!!! There's a lot more standing space that more than cancels out the small amount of space that the toilets take up. Plus the walk through carriages create loads of extra space around the gangways. I'd put the realistic additional space compared to 455-455-456 at very roughly somewhere around 35%. SWR have clearly taken the seats plus the exact measurement of the extra floor area for standing to come up with 50%, which is probably not completely realistic in practice. But then remember that SWT claimed some huge additional capacity increase for the refurbished 455s compared to the original 2+3 seating configuration on the basis that passengers could stand two abreast in the aisles - that never happened in practice because the aisles weren't quite wide enough.

 

[OneTrackMinded]

12% more space might be beleivable if you you comparing a 701 with 2x455. It's only the equivalent of one extra carriage, and the 701s have two (and also only two cabs instead opf four), but some space is lost because of the toilets

Class 455 capacity (2x4): 946 people (seating: 488 and standing: 458)
Class 701 capacity: 1302 people (seating: 556 and standing: 746)

Result: 37.6% capacity increase per train.

 

[wickham]

Am I correct in thinking after this, there will be about 32 passed for service, about 18 on SWR (but not yet fully passenger service ready), about 10 still in store in Warwickshire

Been so little news recently on 5car units, can't remember where they are, is it about 12 in SWR territory, and 18 elsewhere ?

As of today 21.12.25, the situation is:
701/0: To service = 33 (including the rouge 701028), On 3rd Rail network not yet in service 19: Marchwood = 1, Long Marston = 6, Derby Works =1 (Total 60):
701/5: To service NIL: On 3rd rail network not yet in service = 6: Derby Works = 3, Bicester = 15, Long Marston = 6 (Total 30):

 

[Peter Sarf]

As of today 21.12.25, the situation is:
701/0: To service = 33 (including the rouge 701028), On 3rd Rail network not yet in service 19: Marchwood = 1, Long Marston = 6, Derby Works =1 (Total 60):
701/5: To service NIL: On 3rd rail network not yet in service = 6: Derby Works = 3, Bicester = 15, Long Marston = 6 (Total 30):

For 701/5s I have on SWR (Wimbledon and Clapham) x 5, Derby Works x 4, Bicester x 15, Long Marson x 6.
I am not aware of any relocations of 701/5s recently.

 

[Goldfish62]

Class 455 capacity (2x4): 946 people (seating: 488 and standing: 458)
Class 701 capacity: 1302 people (seating: 556 and standing: 746)

Result: 37.6% capacity increase per train.

My very rough estimate was quite accurate then!

 

[778]

A lot more than one extra carriage!!! There's a lot more standing space that more than cancels out the small amount of space that the toilets take up. Plus the walk through carriages create loads of extra space around the gangways. I'd put the realistic additional space compared to 455-455-456 at very roughly somewhere around 35%. SWR have clearly taken the seats plus the exact measurement of the extra floor area for standing to come up with 50%, which is probably not completely realistic in practice. But then remember that SWT claimed some huge additional capacity increase for the refurbished 455s compared to the original 2+3 seating configuration on the basis that passengers could stand two abreast in the aisles - that never happened in practice because the aisles weren't quite wide enough.

I don't know why the 701/5s and 720s do not have end gangways like the 730s?