WWTownEnth
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Can anyone tell me how many 450s are, under the new timetable, operating diagrams that will eventually be worked by 701s?
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Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway: progress updates
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5Q84 Has run !
Big Jumby 74
Established Member
I haven't checked the latest (December LTP timetable) diagrams as per the SWR site, but I would suspect any use of same on the inner area services will be by STP issue only going forward, as per the last days of 455 use and associated changes (to other diagrams), and therefore those on here who have been providing detail, won't know themselves until may be just a few days in advance of operation. That's the nature of planning in these scenarios!
Depends what you mean by the new timetable. In the Long Term Plan until February there are 12 pairs of 450 diagrams that would be worked by 701s (ignoring route retention and the various 12-car 450s in the 701 area). This week there are 14 pairs of 450s on such work. The LTP looks to have 4 450s redistributed to long distance work that's not happening yet.
Would need five extra 701s, the two which aren't running yet and the three 455 pairs for that to happen. At the moment there are 32 701s for 32 701 diagrams so would suggest need another seven or eight trains in service before considering lengthening long distance trains.
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norbitonflyer
Established Member
...for 32 diagrams
Oops. Though with the number of short forms one could be mistaken that they are trying to run a crazy number of diagrams.
Hopefully a few more 701s will enter service soon, lots of 701 activity out of Clapham recently.
The_Train
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Confirmed as 032?
Reported as such elsewhere: There are now 18 x 701/0s on the electrified network which have not enterered service yet (plus 701028) but progress seems to be rather slow, it seems that only 1 unit is being prepared at a time.
Goldfish62
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And today as well!
Christmas / Engineering work between Waterloo and Clapham so I doubt you'll see any new ones until the new year.
Goldfish62
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It's shrunk again - was a single 455 this morning!
Assuming the rollout of 701/0 and 701/5 is completed in full, there is likely to be a surplus of 450s, hence the proposal to convert some to electric/battery opperation for use on the Salisbury/Exeter line - a proposal which has gone very quiet of late - perhaps it is not possible after all?
WWTownEnth
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Maybe the surplus will be far less than anticipated once the fully reworked timetable is implemented?
Spekejunction
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Maybe one day a connection from Waterloo to London Bridge would give better access across South London utilising the extra units.
Might be pie in the sky but didn’t Thameslink start that way ?
Juniper Driver
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Thanks!
mansonlo49
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5Q84 1101 Marchwood Mod Gbrf to Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs Departing today，any info which? Thanks
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GW43125
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47727 + 701029
Big Jumby 74
Established Member
Agree
norbitonflyer
Established Member
Thamelink sttartred as a way tio reduce the amount of rolling stock neeeded, by eliminatuing layover times at Holborn Viaduct and St Pancras
SE won’t want another micro fleet. Best to keep them at SWR, which can be used for future service increases
Multiple 701s are in the pipeline at once, with many of the November arrivals having done trips now. There are capacity and resource limitations which mean can't have all in flight at once. None have entered service recently which will limit others joining the commissioning process. A couple might be close based on recent movements, but haven't made it into service yet.
There are also might be temporary moves to free up stabling capacity, this move that ended up at Eastleigh due to flooding might have been a pre-service 701 based on the headcode.
Welcome to the forum. Without wanting to drag this into speculation territory, the 701s are pretty much accounted for with the current timetable.
When the 450s, 458/4s, 458/5s and 455s in the 701 area switch over that would be 63 10-car 701 diagrams on weekdays assuming everything can be run as 10-car. Modern fleets often manage 90% utilisation which would be 68 available, 450s utilisation would be around 70. Either way there be a small number left over for additional services but not enough to be worth loaning out elsewhere.
24 450s would be freed up, though many could lengthen peak services or run a small number of additional services if added in future timetables. There probably wouldn't be enough left over worthwhile to allocate or share elsewhere.
TT-ONR-NRN
Veteran Member
Correction: SE won't want another fleet.
They don't have a micro fleet now.
norbitonflyer
Established Member
Depends how micro you mean. There are thirty 701/5s, 36 class 376s and thirty class 707s. All these classes need to double up to form ten car trains.
But as another poster has observed, 68-70 x 10car are needed for the SWR suburban services, leaving only about 12 x 5car units (give or take a couple) spare. They would be much better employed on a restored Hounslow Loop service (83 minutes each way, so six trains required) .
Goldfish62
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But these forums in general are obsessed with "microfleets" which for some even cover fleet sizes up to 30!
Meanwhile, back to the actual topic of this thread, 2C16 is again a single 458/5 today, having only managed a 701 once this week, on Monday.
Snow1964
Established Member
There will be a surplus of 450s due to cutting back timetables since the plan was announced in March 2027 (nearly 9 years ago)
Back then was supposed to have been 52,000 extra seats into Waterloo each day, using 750 new carriages (701), 90 extra refurbished carriages (originally 18 x 442s, later changed to 28 x 458/4) and using all 123 x 450 and 45 x 444 to lengthen some 8 carriage trains to 10 or 12
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Although usage has gone back up (especially Tuesday-Thursday), Mondays are not as strong, and Friday has remained weak (arguably quieter than weekends on some lines), but SWR has stayed wedded to thinned out timetables Monday-Friday.
Crowding suggests they need all the 450s as planned (but nearer 3.5 days than 5 days per week). Remains to be seen if they ever restore the timetable to utilise all the units, or if like Anglia effectively will have spare electric units which may/may not be used for growth.
Invincible
Member
More likely retrofit batteries to 450s, speculation thread here
Battery 450s replacing 159s on West of England line?
Moderator note - split from: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/swr-refurbishing-class-158-and-159.275269/ To be honest, they should just do away with it now, it is never enforced, any morning train into and afternoon train out of Exeter first is just full of students with their feet on the...
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