Class 175s to GWR

[Anonymous10]

008 is 2 of the units that caught fire. The good coach was swapped with a fire damaged of 101.

The fire the actual coach from 008 had did appear pretty severe compared to most of the others. Having seen (and smelt) the burnt coach of 101 there wasn't much left in the vicinity of the engine that hadn't melted either.

Sounds like it was fully alit.

 

[XFeed]

There's not too much on the underframe of a 180's that's common to the 175's, given 008 can be stripped if required can't see Angel wanting the 180's stripped of parts yet.

The assumption of lack of underframe component commonality between 175/180 is probably correct as I dont know enough concerning the 180, certainly engine and gearbox rafts are different.
Cooler groups and Battery chargers were always identified as class specific and probably bogies and final drives considering the maximum speed differences.

There will be more commonality of parts within the units especially electrical/electronic equipment albeit at differing software levels along with toilets and their control systems.

I suspect saloon HVAC units with be the same but cab HVACs maybe not ?

I would suspect the damaged car of 008 has already been robbed, to an inch of its life regarding parts that are regularly required.

 

[Russel]

Where is the damaged car from 008 now?

 

[XFeed]

008 is 2 of the units that caught fire. The good coach was swapped with a fire damaged of 101.

The fire the actual coach from 008 had did appear pretty severe compared to most of the others. Having seen (and smelt) the burnt coach of 101 there wasn't much left in the vicinity of the engine that hadn't melted either.

Unfortunate that the fires have been regarding the fleet they have not all been caused by the same issues and some were just pure bad luck in particular 008 appeared jinxed as a number of years ago it also had a fire near Preston station caused by a debris strike on a gearbox flexible hose that then ruptured causing extremely high temperature gearbox oil to be sprayed onto a hot exhaust system.

They are a good unit and I think they come in for some bad press and pre conceived ideas at times.

 

[Wyrleybart]

The assumption of lack of underframe component commonality between 175/180 is probably correct as I dont know enough concerning the 180, certainly engine and gearbox rafts are different.
Coolers groups and Battery chargers were always identified as class specific and probably bogies and final drives considering the maximum speed differences.

There will be more commonality of parts within the units especially electrical/electronic equipment albeit at differing software levels along with toilets and their control systems.

I suspect saloon HVAC units with be the same but cab HVACs maybe not ?

I would suspect the damaged car of 008 has already been robbed, to an inch of its life regarding parts that are regularly required.

Not totally sure but IIRC class 175 had the Cummins N14 wheras the 180 had the Cummins QSK19. IIRC the final drives were something like T2 for the 175 and T3 for the 180. Also we were told that the 180 hasd lots of pipe and cable runs over the top of the engine on the 180, so yes, I imagine few under floor components common to both, even though the bodyshells look similar.

 

[GilfachFargoed]

A colleague over at ARRIVA advised that even within the 180s there are some detail differences 'as built', and that's not including the one that required some substantial re-wiring after a particularly bad conflagration in a previous life...

 

[Wolfie]

The assumption of lack of underframe component commonality between 175/180 is probably correct as I dont know enough concerning the 180, certainly engine and gearbox rafts are different.
Cooler groups and Battery chargers were always identified as class specific and probably bogies and final drives considering the maximum speed differences.

There will be more commonality of parts within the units especially electrical/electronic equipment albeit at differing software levels along with toilets and their control systems.

I suspect saloon HVAC units with be the same but cab HVACs maybe not ?

I would suspect the damaged car of 008 has already been robbed, to an inch of its life regarding parts that are regularly required.

Any component compatibility with the contemporary Alstom EMUs? I'm thinking the surplus 458s initially.

 

[XFeed]

Not totally sure but IIRC class 175 had the Cummins N14 wheras the 180 had the Cummins QSK19. IIRC the final drives were something like T2 for the 175 and T3 for the 180. Also we were told that the 180 hasd lots of pipe and cable runs over the top of the engine on the 180, so yes, I imagine few under floor components common to both, even though the bodyshells look similar.

You are totally correct regarding the engine specs and I bow to your knowledge regarding final drives.

Also 175, like 180, had far too many cable trays and pipework above the engine raft.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Dec 2025 ==

Any component compatibility with the contemporary Alstom EMUs? I'm thinking the surplus 458s initially.

I have no personal knowledge of Alstom EMUs sorry but I`m sure someone with the relevant knowledge and information would be on this site somewhere

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Dec 2025 ==

A colleague over at ARRIVA advised that even within the 180s there are some detail differences 'as built', and that's not including the one that required some substantial re-wiring after a particularly bad conflagration in a previous life...

That would also apply to the 175 in regard to detail differences.

101 was the original test unit, dont know which 2 car unit it was, and the maintenance staff will come across its internal hidden differences in time.

Although they all look the same each unit is practically bespoke in certain parts of the build.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Dec 2025 ==

175008 has got you covered. Any usable parts (which is probably a fair few) will be used to keep the rest going. Not a bad shout about the 180s though, if anyone knows any more about if that's compatible please say.

I`m unaware at the moment where the undamaged car from 008 is, possibly part of another unit ? as hybrids are not uncommon.

There will not be enough "useable parts" on the damaged car of 008 to keep other units supplied for long if at all, when all 26 are in service.

I suspect over the coming months Alstom will embed numerous parts and components within GWR for day to day operations and component failures.

 

[Anonymous10]

You are totally correct regarding the engine specs and I bow to your knowledge regarding final drives.

Also 175, like 180, had far too many cable trays and pipework above the engine raft.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Dec 2025 ==


I have no personal knowledge of Alstom EMUs sorry but I`m sure someone with the relevant knowledge and information would be on this site somewhere

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Dec 2025 ==


That would also apply to the 175 in regard to detail differences.

101 was the original test unit, dont know which 2 car unit it was, and the maintenance staff will come across its internal hidden differences in time.

Although they all look the same each unit is practically bespoke in certain parts of the build.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Dec 2025 ==


I`m unaware at the moment where the undamaged car from 008 is, possibly part of another unit ? as hybrids are not uncommon.

There will not be enough "useable parts" on the damaged car of 008 to keep other units supplied for long if at all, when all 26 are in service.

I suspect over the coming months Alstom will embed numerous parts and components within GWR for day to day operations and component failures.

The undamaged car was formed into 101 with its damaged car forming the second part of 008.

 

[XFeed]

The undamaged car was formed into 101 with its damaged car forming the second part of 008.

Thanks for the reply.

What is the damage to 101s car that has occurred as I cant recall at the moment ?

Just reviewed the recent parts of the thread and sd0733 points out that 101 was fire damaged

 

[driverd]

I note many comments on here commending the comfort of 175 seats - and that’s clearly the case for most people, but I always found they leaned back a little further than was comfortable for me personally, and more than was the norm across UK rolling stock. When in wales I always preferred the (refurbished, i.e. current) 158 seats. A nice wide base and gently sloping back with a decent head rest. But I am someone on the larger side and I’m sure that’s a factor as well. Just my own experience, as I said, and I still think the 175s are great trains and will be planning a trip when a few more are in service!

Sadly this is the age old seat debate. I personally find the Grammar seats used in the 158s quite awful and uncomfortable for long journeys (to be fair, the same applies to the vast majority of grammar products for me). Its always going to be a personally subjective debate.

From my perspective, I find the 175s very comfortable indeed and a more than worthy replacement for the HSTs - in terms of seat comfort and interior layout, perhaps superior. I very much look forward to enjoying the fabulous Cornish scenery from one.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Dec 2025 ==

In terms of the 175/180 parts commonality debate, I suspect the only common parts will be body structure/physical doors etc. Perhaps things like toilet modules, seat frames etc.

Otherwise, the units have different engines/gearboxes etc - do they share identical bogies even?

Personally I'd suspect you'd be better just placing 180 vehicles into a 175, rather than robbing them for spares - you'd end up with each 175 vehicle being a bespoke hybrid using non-standard parts.

Assuming they use similar software, it may well be a better shout to just use spare 180 MS vehicles to swap out 175 MS vehicles for longer stints of maintenance.

 

[Goldfish62]

From my perspective, I find the 175s very comfortable indeed and a more than worthy replacement for the HSTs - in terms of seat comfort and interior layout, perhaps superior. I very much look forward to enjoying the fabulous Cornish scenery from one.

Yes, I find the seats to be very good on the 175s and 180s, and certainly better than the Grammer IC3000s on the Castle HSTs. I remember Ian Walmesley commenting in Modern Railways a couple of years ago that the 175/180s were among the last trains to be built where the importance of seat comfort was a major factor in the specification.

Since then of course the DfT and the industry seem to think that we all like sitting bolt-upright on concrete slabs - although the EMR 810s give some hope that we are past peak seat discomfort

 

[ThatBloke]

Personally I'd suspect you'd be better just placing 180 vehicles into a 175, rather than robbing them for spares - you'd end up with each 175 vehicle being a bespoke hybrid using non-standard parts.

Although they are nominally sister fleets. I suspect that the work/cost required to even consider such an interoperability question, let alone develop/write/approve and then implement the changes required would be prohibitively costly.

 

[GhostManDN91]

Will the Class 175s be used out of Cardiff/Bristol in the future? Will have to come down that way for a trip to ride on one again.

 

[GoneSouth]

Rolling stock of TOCs that are still to be nationalised won't be done until they are in public ownership.

So, for XC you wait 25 years for a lick of paint and then 2 come along within 2 years!

 

[Snow1964]

Will the Class 175s be used out of Cardiff/Bristol in the future? Will have to come down that way for a trip to ride on one again.

Not likely to see one north east of Exeter in 2026.

Possibly will get to Bristol or Cardiff once all are in service, and the Exeter split timetable changes (if it does change back)

 

[REVUpminster]

Not likely to see one north east of Exeter in 2026.

Possibly will get to Bristol or Cardiff once all are in service, and the Exeter split timetable changes (if it does change back)

I think the split is here to stay with maybe a tweak.
The Cardiff-Taunton could be extended to Exeter and the Penzance-Exeter extended to Taunton. They then could serve Wellington and Cullompton with a decent service.

 

[XFeed]

Although they are nominally sister fleets. I suspect that the work/cost required to even consider such an interoperability question, let alone develop/write/approve and then implement the changes required would be prohibitively costly.

As we know, 175 and 180 are only coupler compatible with each other, and many moons ago I was told that they were able to run together, suggesting that at the time both were built each unit's cab could control the other unit in all aspects of operation, as both TMS software levels would have been equal.

However, as the years have passed with numerous software level updates, and maybe now both at totally different levels, which would cause a TMS non configuration fault to occur when coupled.

I don't know whether a 175/180 coupling was ever achieved even as an experiment. I appreciate that this pre-amble is off-topic, but I got distracted.

Back on topic, I totally agree with "ThatBloke" comments and is probably more of a non starter than a Russian Porsche at this moment in time.

Also, the TMS software would have to be rewritten as 175s are only programmed as 2 or 3 cars and if the TMS found something it wasn't expecting, like an extra car, it would probably have a melt down.

 

[northernbelle]

As we know 175 and 180 are only coupler compatible with each other and many moons ago I was told that they were able to run together suggesting that at the time both were built each units cab could control the other unit in all aspects of operation as both TMS software levels would have been equal but as the years have passed with numerous software level updates and maybe now both at totally different levels which would cause a TMS non configuration fault to occur when coupled. I dont know whether a 175/180 coupling was ever achieved even as an experiment. I appreciate that this pre amble is off "ThatBloke" topic but I got distracted.

Back on topic I totally agree with "ThatBloke" comments and is probably more of a non starter than a Russian Porsche at this moment in time. Also the TMS software would have to be rewritten as 175s are only programmed as 2 or 3 cars and if the TMS found something it wasnt expecting, like an extra car, it would probably have a melt down.

I believe some tests were recently conducted at the Ely storage site to establish the feasibility of the two types working together. I'm not sure of the outcome though.

 

[XFeed]

I believe some tests were recently conducted at the Ely storage site to establish the feasibility of the two types working together. I'm not sure of the outcome though.

Really and thanks, I would be interested to know the outcome if any couplings were carried out.

 

[thelongestroad]

I don't think the people of Cornwall are ready for a 180-175 mutilation, not least for the screaming brakes waking up half of Saltash.

 

[Wolfie]

I don't think the people of Cornwall are ready for a 180-175 mutilation, not least for the screaming brakes waking up half of Saltash.

Hmmm.... This was a place that had Pacers for years, don't forget, ....

 

[tfw756rider]

I'm hoping to ride on 175001 on 2C26 from Plymouth to Par today - as it will be my first time in the area, which side is the best to sit on?

(the left or right being the left or right in the direction of travel, facing forwards - same as the driver's left and right - and "best side to sit on" meaning the same side as the best views)

Realtime Trains | 2C26 1340 Plymouth to Penzance | 19/12/2025

Real-time train running information for 2C26 1340 departure from Plymouth to Penzance on 19/12/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[BayPaul]

I'm hoping to ride on 175001 on 2C26 from Plymouth to Par today - as it will be my first time in the area, which side is the best to sit on?

(the left or right being the left or right in the direction of travel, facing forwards - same as the driver's left and right - and "best side to sit on" meaning the same side as the best views)

Realtime Trains | 2C26 1340 Plymouth to Penzance | 19/12/2025

Real-time train running information for 2C26 1340 departure from Plymouth to Penzance on 19/12/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

I like sitting on the left, especially from Plymouth to St Germans. Great views over the dockyard and over the Tamar and Lynher river from all the viaducts.

 

[cjw714]

I like sitting on the left, especially from Plymouth to St Germans. Great views over the dockyard and over the Tamar and Lynher river from all the viaducts.

Agreed, the stretch from St Budeaux to St Germans is stunning in both directions but marginally better looking in the direction of the sea.

 

[Harpo]

Hmmm.... This was a place that had Pacers for years, don't forget, ....

Pacers were rare. ‘Skippers’ had been before though.

 

[Roger B]

Pacers were rare. ‘Skippers’ had been before though.

Wasn't 'Skippers' just the branding the GWR applied to class 142 pacers? Admittedly they weren't that long-lived in the south-west, but the class 143s are also part of the pacer family (alogg with 140, 141, 142 and 144) - and there were in the south-west for many years.

 

[Harpo]

Wasn't 'Skippers' just the branding the GWR applied to class 142 pacers?

Yes! Brazen pedantry on my part.

 

[Goldfish62]

Hmmm.... This was a place that had Pacers for years, don't forget, ....

They were removed very quickly in Cornwall due to excessive wheel wear on the Cornish branches. Don't think they even lasted a year.

 

[Harpo]

They were removed very quickly in Cornwall due to excessive wheel wear on the Cornish branches. Don't think they even lasted a year.

There were safety concerns too with multiple non-activations of track circuits and concerns around the actual contact levels of wheels on the low rails on curves.