Why don't you cycle?

[Shimbleshanks]

Covid certainly seems to have been the point that driving standards went down the toilet

And yet the driving test is harder to pass than it ever was - as I know to my cost as the Missus had to have three goes before she passed hers. I suppose a stereotype a lot of us carry in our heads is the Uber driver straight off the boat who transfers the driving habits picked up in Calcutta or Chittagong to the streets of Britain, but then there are some awful 'native' drivers too. I don't think the apparent deterioration in standards is solely down to an influx of foreign delivery drivers. Perhaps, as you say, Covid is a factor. Did the lockdown somehow lead to people losing their situational awareness or something?

 

[Krokodil]

And yet the driving test is harder to pass than it ever was

We test people once and never reassess their abilities after ten years.

Did the lockdown somehow lead to people losing their situational awareness or something?

Or their emotional self-control.

 

[Julia]

I have a Brompton and, except in bad weather, it's great for getting into London - 3 miles from the nearest station and an hourly bus which doesn't connect at all well, compared to a cycle route that is nearly all segregated paths or deserted residential cul-de-sacs; it's less useful at the London end as I end up in Moorgate and the office is ten minutes walk, while carrying it on the escalators and in queues is not fun.

However, my other half is progressively more argumentative that I'm going to get flattened, or ride into a ditch, be mugged etc. etc., and should go out with not just helmet but protective padding and more in order to "be responsible" (I hate helmets, they don't fit me well and they make my hair go really skanky, just what you don't want for a job where I need to be presentable!) to the point where it's starting to feel like, sure, I won't cycle when there's only a 50 yard stretch where I ever go near a motor vehicle moving, I'll stand at a deserted bus stop every evening for 50 minutes instead...

 

[stuu]

Anecdotally, I think the number of people using their phones whilst driving is going (back) up lately

 

[Bikeman78]

Are you sure about that? I still see a lot of hostility to cycling on the internet, even on this forum.

Agreed. There is plenty of hostility online and in the real world. But I'm a stubborn sod so I'll dig my heels in and carry on. It doesn't help that South Wales Police has given up dealing with offences against cyclists, unless they are dead on the street, which is a bit late.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Dec 2025 ==

Is it just me, or has the standard of driving deteriorated markedly in the last few months or years? I've just come home after nearly being hit by a driver at a roundabout who was coming from my left but who was adamant that I should have given way. A heated discussion ensued. I wish now that I'd grabbed his keys and at least put him off the road for the rest of the evening.

Most of these people seem to be foreigners working for food delivery firms, though to be fair some of our home-grown idiots run them pretty close for stupidity and lack of awareness. In the course of a three mile ride earlier this evening I was twice cut up by drivers who were either unaware or simply didn't care that I was there.

I personally classify a serious near miss as one where the vehicle comes within three feet of physically hitting me and I've had three of those in the last month.

Maybe I'm getting too old for this urban cycling game...

It doesn't help that juries let off people that kill in their cars. See news item below.

As far as I can tell, everyone was still moving at the point of impact so clearly none of them were moving at a speed that they could stop short of oncoming traffic. So the responsibility ought to be split 50/50. I'm also surprised that the Police could not determine the speed of the car. I watch the Crash Detectives and it says that modern cars store several seconds of information prior to a collision, e.g. speed, steering input, whether accelerator or brake was being pressed down.

Driver 'was not distracted' before fatal crash near Ipswich

Thomas Gibbs is on trial at Ipswich Crown Court over a collision that killed cyclist Ben Jacobs.

www.bbc.co.uk

A driver was "concentrating" and "took necessary action" as soon as he could to try to avoid a collision which killed a cyclist, a court has been told.

Ben Jacobs died following a collision with a silver Volkswagen Passat while cycling on Church Road, Bentley, near Ipswich, on 17 May 2023.

The car was being driven by Thomas Gibbs, 43, of Church Road, who denies causing death by careless or inconsiderate driving.

Cyclists who were with Mr Jacobs at the time said Mr Gibbs had been in a hurry to get home to his children, but today Ipswich Crown Court heard he was "not distracted" and believed he was travelling no faster than 30mph.

 

[JohnMcL7]

I don't think the data stored is any sort of standard so it's up to the manufacturer if they do store the data and in some cases the recording is only triggered if the car has a serious collision so potentially hitting a cyclist may not trigger that. I've also seen some cases where it's been extremely difficult to get the data and involved a time consuming process with the modules being sent back to Japan. The article only mentions the car is a Passat but not the age, given they were a lot more popular years ago than they are now it may simply be too old since I'm pretty sure my 2011 car wouldn't support such a function.

I find the Crash Detectives a fascinating series to watch although it can be difficult when it involves cyclists, the one this series with the TT cyclist was quite chilling when they were looking at the crash scene with the damaged bike lying where it had come to a stop knowing the cyclist was dead and had done nothing wrong.

 

[Bikeman78]

I find the Crash Detectives a fascinating series to watch although it can be difficult when it involves cyclists, the one this series with the TT cyclist was quite chilling when they were looking at the crash scene with the damaged bike lying where it had come to a stop knowing the cyclist was dead and had done nothing wrong.

Yes that one was particularly awful. He openly admitted seeing the cyclist long before he hit her and "thought he'd left her enough room." How could he get that so wrong, especially with an entirely empty second lane to move into? The red rear light was still flashing on the remains of the bike.

 

[styles]

It doesn't help that juries let off people that kill in their cars. See news item below.

As far as I can tell, everyone was still moving at the point of impact so clearly none of them were moving at a speed that they could stop short of oncoming traffic. So the responsibility ought to be split 50/50. I'm also surprised that the Police could not determine the speed of the car. I watch the Crash Detectives and it says that modern cars store several seconds of information prior to a collision, e.g. speed, steering input, whether accelerator or brake was being pressed down.

Driver 'was not distracted' before fatal crash near Ipswich

Thomas Gibbs is on trial at Ipswich Crown Court over a collision that killed cyclist Ben Jacobs.

www.bbc.co.uk

The thing that gets me is this bit:

It was accepted the views of the cyclists and Mr Gibbs were obstructed by foliage and the cyclists would not have entered his line of sight until 1.6 seconds before impact.

Then he was driving too fast. You should drive such that you can stop in the distance of road you can see to be clear in front of you. If you can only see say 20 metres of road then you need to be able to stop within 20 metres. This means slowing suitably for corners and brows of hills.

Unfortunately this driving to 'limit points' has been consigned to advance driving courses so most are never taught it.

 

[Bikeman78]

The thing that gets me is this bit:



Then he was driving too fast. You should drive such that you can stop in the distance of road you can see to be clear in front of you. If you can only see say 20 metres of road then you need to be able to stop within 20 metres. This means slowing suitably for corners and brows of hills.

Unfortunately this driving to 'limit points' has been consigned to advance driving courses so most are never taught it.

I agree, although at least four of the people were guilty of that. Which is probably why he was let off. Though it does make a mockery of the idea that people should lookout for vulnerable road users. The tightening of the law is meaningless if it's not going to be enforced. I wonder who Mr car driver would have blamed if the collision had been with an oncoming lorry or tractor?

 

[ChrisC]

Then he was driving too fast. You should drive such that you can stop in the distance of road you can see to be clear in front of you. If you can only see say 20 metres of road then you need to be able to stop within 20 metres. This means slowing suitably for corners and brows of hills.

This is very much the reason why I never cycle directly from home but have a folding bike which I can put in my car. I only cycle for leisure so drive to a location to park up with quiet country lanes, country parks or off road cycle trails. Busy winding B roads in rural areas are often the most dangerous roads to cycle along and indeed walk along if there are no pavements. Two of the roads out of the village where I live are very busy roads with hills and bends and they also are through wooded areas where trees create lots of dark shaded areas. Both of them have no pavement and steep banks each side with nowhere to stand out of the way of traffic if walking. Cars travel too fast along them without consideration of the lack of visibility around the bends and over the brows of hills. More experienced cyclists than me do occasionally cycle along these roads through the village but I have very rarely seen anyone walk along them in recent years.

 

[Falcon1200]

Cars travel too fast along them without consideration of the lack of visibility around the bends and over the brows of hills. More experienced cyclists than me do occasionally cycle along these roads through the village but I have very rarely seen anyone walk along them in recent years.

I belong to a local walking group and we often use minor pavement-less roads, especially at this time of year when off-road routes become wet and muddy. The number of motorists who come flying round bends without any consideration of what might be there, is unbelievable. I cycle these roads too and the same worry applies (unfortunately the plan to convert an old railway into a path, which would have benefitted everyone, has been abandoned due to lack of cash).

 

[styles]

I belong to a local walking group and we often use minor pavement-less roads, especially at this time of year when off-road routes become wet and muddy. The number of motorists who come flying round bends without any consideration of what might be there, is unbelievable. I cycle these roads too and the same worry applies (unfortunately the plan to convert an old railway into a path, which would have benefitted everyone, has been abandoned due to lack of cash).

For 3 years I lived in a village where the only way to leave the village by road was on a national speed limit single carriageway, with no footpaths, no street lighting, blind corners, blind summits, and more potholes that you can shake a stick at. I used to cycle to town or to go do food shopping, and I really didn't enjoy the stretch between our village and the next (where a decent off-road cycle path was). This was in Scotland, so arguably I could've put some phat tyres on the bike and gone along the edge of some fields, but in autumn when it's just mush, this isn't really practical. I love getting muddy, but not when I'm heading to Co-op. The natural shift was for me to just drive, which I did, but low-key resented having to do. People came bouncing over the blind summits and no normal bike light is going to make me visible until it's too late in that situation. Just as I was leaving the village to live elsewhere, we did get permission from a bunch of landowners to build a proper path which could be used for walking and cycling, and it was fantastic even when it was only half complete. Things like that can be a bit easier in Scotland where the right to walk/cycle/horseride is more enshrined (unless you have certain neighbours on the Far North Line I suppose). Most of it was done informally with some council rubber stamping. I dread to think how it would go down in England.