December 2025 East Coast Timetable

[D1537]

Have they accounted for the loss of seats on existing services which are reduced to 5 car though? Whilst I would have thought they had, that calculation doesn't seem too.

Based on M-F timetable
Old timetable: 103x9-car services, 14x10-car, 38x5-car
New timetable: 117x9-car services, 9x10-car, 52x5-car

Doing some back of a fag packet maths on 600 seats per 9-car and 300 per 5-car, this comes to
Old timetable: 81,600 seats per day
New timetable: 91,200 seats per day

Since Saturday is pretty much identical to M-F, that's around 57,500 extra seats on those 6 days. I haven't looked at Sunday, but I suspect that will be higher but not by as much.

Obviously, some places (and Durham is the poster child for this) will seriously lose LNER capacity. Previously they had an hourly 9-car service plus the York shuttles - now it's simply an hourly service and 13 of those are 5-car.

 

[mityellow]

Based on M-F timetable
Old timetable: 103x9-car services, 14x10-car, 38x5-car
New timetable: 117x9-car services, 9x10-car, 52x5-car

Doing some back of a fag packet maths on 600 seats per 9-car and 300 per 5-car, this comes to
Old timetable: 81,600 seats per day
New timetable: 91,200 seats per day

Since Saturday is pretty much identical to M-F, that's around 57,500 extra seats on those 6 days. I haven't looked at Sunday, but I suspect that will be higher but not by as much.

Obviously, some places (and Durham is the poster child for this) will seriously lose LNER capacity. Previously they had an hourly 9-car service plus the York shuttles - now it's simply an hourly service and 13 of those are 5-car.

Thanks, for the detail that's really helpful.

Obviously still frustrated by the changes at Durham (all of total capacity from Durham, timings, destinations and the knock on effect on cheaper advance availability), but good to see the additional fleet utilisation.

 

[The Planner]

Not as many trains overall on a Sunday from other operators especially the Freight TOCs compared to weekdays.

Unless it goes badly wrong this week, I don't think it will kick off in a bad way, if its going to, until W/C Monday 5 January.

Pointless trying to assess anything until all of the WCML engineering works are done in mid Jan. Only then will you see how it performs.

 

[The Foghorn]

Whilst extra counting seats on additional services, nobody seems to factor in the two carriages removed from the MK4 sets

 

[weeklycommuter]

Based on M-F timetable
Old timetable: 103x9-car services, 14x10-car, 38x5-car
New timetable: 117x9-car services, 9x10-car, 52x5-car

Doing some back of a fag packet maths on 600 seats per 9-car and 300 per 5-car, this comes to
Old timetable: 81,600 seats per day
New timetable: 91,200 seats per day

Since Saturday is pretty much identical to M-F, that's around 57,500 extra seats on those 6 days. I haven't looked at Sunday, but I suspect that will be higher but not by as much.

Obviously, some places (and Durham is the poster child for this) will seriously lose LNER capacity. Previously they had an hourly 9-car service plus the York shuttles - now it's simply an hourly service and 13 of those are 5-car.

According to the website https://225group.org.uk (which lists details of IC225 operations by LNER and by Transport for Wales) LNER also operate from 14 December 2025 four IC225s to run 18 services Monday to Friday (2 to/from York 16 to/from Leeds) 16 services on Saturday (2 to/from York 14 to/from Leeds) and 14 services on Sunday (2 to/from York 12 to/from Leeds). Real Time Trains today confirms the IC225s are running in the new 7-coach formation.

LNER has ordered ten 10-car Class 897 tri-mode Civity trains from CAF to replace the remaining IC225s. These ten additional 10-car trains should also hopefully replace some of the 5-car Azumas freeing them to combine with others to form more 10-car Azumas.

 

[marsker]

I've just had a look at RTT for Newark Northgate and taken 10.00 - 12.00 as a representative 2 hour slot. In that time, there are 31 trains noted to pass (+ 1 unused Q path). All of these trains are to or from Kings Cross, so feed into the "Congested" line south of Peterborough. Of the 31 trains, 16 are only 5 coaches, one has to question whether this is the best use of a "Congested" section of railway.

 

[D1537]

According to the website https://225group.org.uk (which lists details of IC225 operations by LNER and by Transport for Wales) LNER also operate from 14 December 2025 four IC225s to run 18 services Monday to Friday (2 to/from York 16 to/from Leeds) 16 services on Saturday (2 to/from York 14 to/from Leeds) and 14 services on Sunday (2 to/from York 12 to/from Leeds). Real Time Trains today confirms the IC225s are running in the new 7-coach formation.

Yes, I didn't involve the 225s in my calculations because their diagrams are similar in both timetables and the sets were already down to 7 cars. It's the Azuma diagrams where the increase in seats comes from.

Whilst extra counting seats on additional services, nobody seems to factor in the two carriages removed from the MK4 sets

It's around 14,800 seats per week.

 

[David Bullock]

I guess it’s not quite as simple as “Durham had 9 car, now it has 5 car” either. Previously it had an hourly 9 car train but shared with passengers north of Newcastle.

Because there are so many options from NCL that should hopefully keep the stopper from being too full. Obviously pricing comes into this and because it’s the stopper it probably will be the cheapest LNER service.

I get that this is an optimistic take but it’s not a like for like replacement of a 9 car with a 5 car.

 

[55002]

All seems to be running ok so far

 

[Bletchleyite]

Because there are so many options from NCL that should hopefully keep the stopper from being too full. Obviously pricing comes into this and because it’s the stopper it probably will be the cheapest LNER service.

The York stopper always used to be cheapest, but I just had a look at Kings Cross-Newcastle for the next few hours and it appears to be a bit more random than that now, presumably because they will in some cases want to price people onto the 9 car services including the "super fast" one.

 

[D1537]

I guess it’s not quite as simple as “Durham had 9 car, now it has 5 car” either. Previously it had an hourly 9 car train but shared with passengers north of Newcastle.

Because there are so many options from NCL that should hopefully keep the stopper from being too full. Obviously pricing comes into this and because it’s the stopper it probably will be the cheapest LNER service.

I get that this is an optimistic take but it’s not a like for like replacement of a 9 car with a 5 car.

That seems not unreasonable for southbound services, but for northbound ones most people on those flows will be boarding at King's Cross anyway, so there's an obvious disadvantage with a 5-car there if you're coming from London. Having said that, it will be interesting to see what the southbound loadings are like on 1Y10 (0940 from Durham, first train that railcards are valid on) and 1Y19 (1740, popular commuter service) with only 250 standard seats.

The pricing for the Newcastle services from Newcastle to KX appears to be slightly cheaper, but not much. For example, the price on the fast services seems to be £70-74 advance and the stoppers are £66. Whether it is enough to pull people onto a slower service for the sake of a few quid will remain to be seen.

The York stopper always used to be cheapest, but I just had a look at Kings Cross-Newcastle for the next few hours and it appears to be a bit more random than that now, presumably because they will in some cases want to price people onto the 9 car services including the "super fast" one.

One thing that I did notice - this Friday there are advances available at around £70-£98 for every King's Cross-Newcastle train ... apart from 1N10, the 15:33 (a 5-car) ... which will set you back £200 for an Anytime. And if you try to book the anytime, it won't reserve you a seat. In other words, it's full apart from half of Coach C.

 

[mityellow]

There's been a historic pricing disparity for advances from places like Durham and Morpeth(?) (from memory it was disproportionately more expensive than advances from Newcastle and Darlington). Morpeth might have altered with Lumo competing now. I can't remember the full details but someone previously posted about it.

We'll see what happens though with which services have seats, at least Durham still has off peak tickets to London unlike Newcastle for the time being.

Tickets offered by most booking sites to Edinburgh already are more expensive - Crosscountry has always tended to have less advances and now no direct LNER. At least if you don't mind a wait in Newcastle the TPEs heading Edinburgh have some very reasonably priced tickets.

 

[YorksLad12]

Apart from forum members, no-one in West Yorkshire seems to have clocked the reduced seats to/from Leeds. No outcry from our political leaders, and the BBC Yorkshire website just regurgitated a triumphal LNER release about there being "more services".

 

[IrishDave]

Pointless trying to assess anything until all of the WCML engineering works are done in mid Jan. Only then will you see how it performs.

I'd go as far to say it's not worth assessing anything until the Church Fenton blockade is complete on 26th January - from Christmas until then, Leeds will be operating quite differently to normal with TPE reversing (to divert via Castleford) and XC terminating.

 

[D1537]

Apart from forum members, no-one in West Yorkshire seems to have clocked the reduced seats to/from Leeds. No outcry from our political leaders, and the BBC Yorkshire website just regurgitated a triumphal LNER release about there being "more services".

Although the seat numbers are down slightly at the moment, when the three deferred services start again in the Spring (1D01, 1D19 and 1A33), there will actually be slightly more seats than there were in the previous timetable.

Edit: no there won't (see below)

 

[xotGD]

Although the seat numbers are down slightly at the moment, when the three deferred services start again in the Spring (1A01, 1D19 and 1A33), there will actually be slightly more seats than there were in the previous timetable.

Whilst the 225s have been shortened (and the number of services reduced), and the 10-car services reduced, there are 10 more 9-car services in the diagrams than there were before (13 from Spring).

Can you show your workings?

9 going to 7, 10 going to 9 or 5, does not strike me as a means to increase seats.

 

[D1537]

Can you show your workings?

9 going to 7, 10 going to 9 or 5, does not strike me as a means to increase seats.

(Deleted nonsense due to being unable to count, though you can read it in the quoted posts below!)

 

[xotGD]

Don't forget a 9 actually has more seats than a 10! But here's what I calculated (this is based on M-S, I haven't done Sunday)

9-cars: 10 more per day (34 vs 24) = +6,110 seats
5-cars: 4 more per day (13 vs 9) = +1,208 seats
10-cars: 8 fewer per day (6 vs 14) = -4,832 seats
225s: now 16 x 411-seat trains, previously 20 x 535-seat trains, = -4,124 seats

Total current = -1,638 seats per day

After the three deferred services start in the Spring, that's another 1,833 seats, leaving a net increase of a whopping 195 seats a day.

Thank you. So there will be an increase in services from 67 to 69 even before the three deferrals commence?

 

[mernrith]

I guess it’s not quite as simple as “Durham had 9 car, now it has 5 car” either. Previously it had an hourly 9 car train but shared with passengers north of Newcastle.

Because there are so many options from NCL that should hopefully keep the stopper from being too full. Obviously pricing comes into this and because it’s the stopper it probably will be the cheapest LNER service.

I get that this is an optimistic take but it’s not a like for like replacement of a 9 car with a 5 car.

Not everyone heads to London - Lost of more than half of Edinburgh directs and a couple of destinations via changes at PBO (albeit some can be done in SVG, for instance Cambridge, credit to members who've kindly mentioned previously).

 

[YorksLad12]

Don't forget a 9 actually has more seats than a 10! But here's what I calculated (this is based on M-S, I haven't done Sunday)

9-cars: 10 more per day (34 vs 24) = +6,110 seats
5-cars: 4 more per day (13 vs 9) = +1,208 seats
10-cars: 8 fewer per day (6 vs 14) = -4,832 seats
225s: now 16 x 411-seat trains, previously 20 x 535-seat trains, = -4,124 seats

Total current = -1,638 seats per day

After the three deferred services start in the Spring, that's another 1,833 seats, leaving a net increase of a whopping 195 seats a day.

Do the 9s still have more seats than 2x5s, given that the windowless seats opposite the luggage racks were converted to luggage racks around the pandemic (but only on the 9s, by the look of things)?

 

[weeklycommuter]

Looking at the Azuma seat maps on https://www.lner.co.uk/our-trains the 5-car Azumas are shown to have 254 standard class and 48 first class total 302 seats (so the 10-car Azumas would be 508 standard class and 96 first class total 604 seats) and the 9-car Azumas are shown to have 490 standard class and 100 first class total 590 seats. There are in addition two wheelchair seat/spaces in each 5-car Azuma and four wheelchair seat/spaces in each 9-car Azuma.

 

[D1537]

Do the 9s still have more seats than 2x5s, given that the windowless seats opposite the luggage racks were converted to luggage racks around the pandemic (but only on the 9s, by the look of things)?

Good point. It looks like a 9 now has 593 seats (with the 5 still having 302).

Thank you. So there will be an increase in services from 67 to 69 even before the three deferrals commence?

Unless I've miscounted, yes. I'm going to check it again though.

Yes, I have miscounted, and I'll tell you why - I counted all the trains with a headcode of "A" as West Yorkshire services in the new timetable. Schoolboy error - 1A03 starts from Donny, and 1A09 from Hull. An even more silly error considering (a) I didn't do that in the old timetable, and (b) I didn't count the deferred 1A01, because I knew it started at Donny!!

So yes, there is a deficit of seats (once the deferred services start) by around 1,200 a day.

 

[waverley47]

And just to confirm, the first Lumo service to Glasgow made it into Queen Street this afternoon, to meet a violinist and some souvenirs for the passengers. There was quite a fanfare as I walked through about five minutes ago.

 

[dk1]

And just to confirm, the first Lumo service to Glasgow made it into Queen Street this afternoon, to meet a violinist and some souvenirs for the passengers. There was quite a fanfare as I walked through about five minutes ago.

It had a decent amount of passengers to as it arrived at Falkirk High.

 

[dan4291]

And just to confirm, the first Lumo service to Glasgow made it into Queen Street this afternoon, to meet a violinist and some souvenirs for the passengers. There was quite a fanfare as I walked through about five minutes ago.

Arrived bang on time as well. The First Group management were there either onboard or at Queen Street for the first service hence the fanfare!

It had a decent amount of passengers to as it arrived at Falkirk High.

Encouraging for Lumo, hopefully that will be the norm going forward.

 

[xotGD]

Good point. It looks like a 9 now has 593 seats (with the 5 still having 302).


Unless I've miscounted, yes. I'm going to check it again though.

Yes, I have miscounted, and I'll tell you why - I counted all the trains with a headcode of "A" as West Yorkshire services in the new timetable. Schoolboy error - 1A03 starts from Donny, and 1A09 from Hull. An even more silly error considering (a) I didn't do that in the old timetable, and (b) I didn't count the deferred 1A01, because I knew it started at Donny!!

So yes, there is a deficit of seats (once the deferred services start) by around 1,200 a day.

Thank you for rechecking.

 

[ZJ517]

Some limited observations from my commute today on the Cambridge Line into London, with the caveat that today being a Monday, things are relatively quiet.

My morning Brighton train previously would follow the Letchworth peak that runs 6 mins ahead. With the latter train now becomes a stopper, and the Brighton train running marginally earlier (1 min) than before, we largely caught up with it near Knebworth and ran slow until after Digswell viaduct. Likewise, on the way back on the the newly extended 1724 Cambridge train from King's Cross (which now, predictably, has more punters onboard than before), we were being held on approach of Letchworth whilst the preceding stopper was shunted to the siding.

I can see the peak King's Cross - Letchworth stoppers to have some adverse impact to service timekeeping in both directions, as my first impression is that the gap between it and following service seems quite limited. In the past, the Letchworth peak services get fairly regularly delayed coming into Letchworth by late running northbound trains, so it makes me wonder how, in particular, morning Brighton trains could be affected.

Nonetheless, I see the new timetable to be a positive thing for London commuters on the line if run reliably. Cambridge, Royston and Letchworth, for instance, now gets a fast (or fast-ish) service to and from London every 10 mins regularly during peak, almost making the services a turn up and go for commuters.

 

[dk1]

First weekday and LNER’s PPM looks to currently stand at a very respectable 95% with zero cancellations.

 

[bramling]

First weekday and LNER’s PPM looks to currently stand at a very respectable 95% with zero cancellations.

For a day when not much has happened, GTR’s Kings Lynn and Ely services haven’t been great - some noticeable late running on certain service. One thing about this timetable is that issues shouldn’t cross over as much between the Fen Line service and the Cambridge stopping service, but the flip side of this coin is the Kings Lynn service in particular is now even more exposed to delays propagating than it was before, not helped by the way the timetable is now structured for down services between Hitchin and Cambridge.

 

[route101]

And just to confirm, the first Lumo service to Glasgow made it into Queen Street this afternoon, to meet a violinist and some souvenirs for the passengers. There was quite a fanfare as I walked through about five minutes ago.

Can you travel on this service between Glasgow and Edinburgh with a regular ticket?

Hopefully more services are to come and at different times of day.