Avanti West Coast via Settle (for WCML Bridge replacement next January?)

[AlterEgo]

I went on the Avanti web site to look at ticket availability for around the 13th/14th of January, it shows a 9 car train, am I correct in saying that the train will be 2 x 805's with one first class carriage not used.

It will be 2x805s but it is unclear whether one carriage will be *unused* or whether it is simply closed for reservations.

 

[voyagerdude220]

I went on the Avanti web site to look at ticket availability for around the 13th/14th of January, it shows a 9 car train, am I correct in saying that the train will be 2 x 805's with one first class carriage not used.

Someone earlier in the thread highlighted this a few weeks ago. My theory is that the second First Class carriage has been left unreservable so Avanti can allocate one fewer catering staff to each train to increase the probability of First Class recieving the full advertised catering service.

 

[38Cto15E]

Thanks Paul etc.
For my dates Standard class return works out about £20 and First £60 so I will probably treat myself and have an individual seat.

 

[Big Sam]

Someone earlier in the thread highlighted this a few weeks ago. My theory is that the second First Class carriage has been left unreservable so Avanti can allocate one fewer catering staff to each train to increase the probability of First Class recieving the full advertised catering service.

I'm struggling to understand what this means. I'm planning on travelling on one of these services with a rail pass in First Class, and I won't be reserving a seat. If I sit in the unreserved first class coach, will I not be served any catering?

 

[voyagerdude220]

I'm struggling to understand what this means. I'm planning on travelling on one of these services with a rail pass in First Class, and I won't be reserving a seat. If I sit in the unreserved first class coach, will not be served any catering?

I don't know if catering will be provided in both First Class carriages. It was just a random theory as to why Avanti are only offering seat reservations in one of the two First Class carriages on trains formed of 2x5-cars coupled together on the diversions.

 

[Big Sam]

I don't know if catering will be provided in both First Class carriages. It was just a random theory as to why Avanti are only offering seat reservations in one of the two First Class carriages on trains formed of 2x5-cars coupled together on the diversions.

OK, thanks.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Contemplating a day trip to Carlisle during the WCML closure.
The strange early start of the 0820 Wrexham-Carlisle 805 via the S&C doesn't work very well for a day trip.
It arrives at Wrexham ECS from Crewe, and then works to Carlisle via Crewe, Wigan, Hellifield and the S&C. Great option.
You can pick up the same train at Warrington using a coast-Manchester service.
Carlisle arrival is at 1232, just missing the 1221 return to Wigan (both trains use P3).

After a couple of hours to kick heels, the 1421 Carlisle-Wigan, presumably the same 805 sets, then means a 4h23m leg to Chester (changing at either Warrington or Crewe), but most of the return journey will be in the dark.
The last option is the 1605 Carlisle-Crewe which has a better connection to Chester (3h44m), but then the whole journey will be in the dark.

I recommend the bridge work is deferred until May, when there will be a lot more daylight to see the .S&C at its best...

 

[duffield]

I'm struggling to understand what this means. I'm planning on travelling on one of these services with a rail pass in First Class, and I won't be reserving a seat. If I sit in the unreserved first class coach, will I not be served any catering?

I'm planning on doing exactly the same, and I will be working on the assumption there will be no catering in the unreserved 1st coach.

 

[lrbvoyager]

I don’t think the second coach will be unreserved I think it will be completely out of use. On the seat picker for 390s coach C is still there but you can’t pick seats in it whereas in these trains there is only 9 coaches.

 

[voyagerdude220]

I don’t think the second coach will be unreserved I think it will be completely out of use. On the seat picker for 390s coach C is still there but you can’t pick seats in it whereas in these trains there is only 9 coaches.

Why would it be locked out of use?

 

[lrbvoyager]

Why would it be locked out of

No idea but it’s just what I think

 

[DavidK]

I don’t think the second coach will be unreserved I think it will be completely out of use. On the seat picker for 390s coach C is still there but you can’t pick seats in it whereas in these trains there is only 9 coaches.

I am booked just in standard on one of the days, and I could pick my seat, and I went for L3, but when I was booking it, I am sure I could have picked any spare seat over the 2 coaches.

 

[Falcon1200]

I don’t think the second coach will be unreserved I think it will be completely out of use.

That seems unlikely, being a waste of seats! A different operator obviously, but on some Cross Country trains formed by two Voyagers catering is only offered in one First Class vehicle, but the other is still available to use. As long as passengers are advised of the situation there is not a problem.

 

[duffield]

That seems unlikely, being a waste of seats! A different operator obviously, but on some Cross Country trains formed by two Voyagers catering is only offered in one First Class vehicle, but the other is still available to use. As long as passengers are advised of the situation there is not a problem.

It's not always available. The rear coach is sometimes locked out on XC 5+5 coach sets, I assume due to short platforms somewhere, but I'm not sure where (I've been turfed out after they opened it up accidentally). But I wouldn't think that would apply in the Avanti case.

 

[Big Sam]

I'm planning on doing exactly the same, and I will be working on the assumption there will be no catering in the unreserved 1st coach.

That seems unlikely, being a waste of seats! A different operator obviously, but on some Cross Country trains formed by two Voyagers catering is only offered in one First Class vehicle, but the other is still available to use. As long as passengers are advised of the situation there is not a problem.

But I guess you could still go to the on-board shop and get your complimentary refreshments?

 

[voyagerdude220]

But I guess you could still go to the on-board shop and get your complimentary refreshments?

That's usually the case where no at seat service is available, however, I'd be very surprised if they could offer the full menu from the Shop, given certain menu items need heating up in the oven.

 

[Big Sam]

That's usually the case where no at seat service is available, however, I'd be very surprised if they could offer the full menu from the Shop, given certain menu items need heating up in the oven.

Thanks.

 

[raveon]

The sensible thing for them to do would be to offer the second FC coach as standard premium if they’re not providing catering.

 

[Big Sam]

The sensible thing for them to do would be to offer the second FC coach as standard premium if they’re not providing catering.

What about people with First Class tickets who haven't reserved a seat?

 

[voyagerdude220]

What about people with First Class tickets who haven't reserved a seat?

They usually leave a few seats unreserved.

I know when Avanti used to run their 221s roughly half of the seats in First Class were permanently unreservable.

 

[D1024]

Interestingly, it looks like for the first 2 Southbound services (0726 & 0923 Carlisle to Preston) for at least Monday to Wednesday 5th to 7th January you can only book into one 5-car unit. 4 coaches Standard and one 1st. The respective returns show 9 coaches (minus one 1st class).

From seat availability they are not exactly selling like hot cakes - My 0923 on 7th has only 7 1st class seats taken and total of 5 in Standard.

 

[mgood]

Looking at a trip from Chester but really dislike travelling backwards.

I'm assuming the train will run in reverse formation from Crewe so do you think the 'train direction' is correct for Chester ? (On seat picker the train direction is the same for Chester, Crewe and Preston !!!)

 

[voyagerdude220]

Looking at a trip from Chester but really dislike travelling backwards.

I'm assuming the train will run in reverse formation from Crewe so do you think the 'train direction' is correct for Chester ? (On seat picker the train direction is the same for Chester, Crewe and Preston !!!)

Whilst the train should have First Class at the London end, I wouldn't rely on this being the case because of the reversals which Everos sometimes do.

If it's not too busy sit in an unreserved forward facing seat if it transpires you've got a backwards facing seat.

 

[mgood]

I had booked for 2nd Jan, Chester to Carlisle leaving at 08.43 but now had an email from Avanti to say journey is cancelled. Had a look on Avanti website and although the Chester to Crewe section has gone, tickets are still available from Crewe to Carlisle - RTT shows it from Crewe as well.

Why say my whole journey is cancelled when it appears only the Chester to Crewe part is, or will all this change again and it will all get cancelled ?

 

[38Cto15E]

I have booked First class on the 6th and 8th, I am sure my reservation is in coach J.

 

[raveon]

I’m booked on in First for 10th Jan and had the choice of pretty much any seat in either First Class carriage to choose from, so I think these services will carrying plenty of fresh air.

 

[duffield]

I’m booked on in First for 10th Jan and had the choice of pretty much any seat in either First Class carriage to choose from, so I think these services will carrying plenty of fresh air.

That's good to hear, I'm planning a trip in 1st but can't schedule or book it in advance.

 

[tram21]

I'm looking to travel on the 09.09 Crewe to Carlisle train on the 14th January, but its shown as 'sold out' online? I'm right in thinking you can just get on with a flexible ticket?

 

[voyagerdude220]

I'm looking to travel on the 09.09 Crewe to Carlisle train on the 14th January, but its shown as 'sold out' online? I'm right in thinking you can just get on with a flexible ticket?

Yes you certainly can. I suspect the reason it's not been released for reservations yet is related to it originally being planned to come from Wrexham, which doesn't seem to be the case anymore.

 

[tram21]

Yes you certainly can. I suspect the reason it's not been released for reservations yet is related to it originally being planned to come from Wrexham, which doesn't seem to be the case anymore.

I'll keep an eye out for any reservations becoming available- I think they were available a few days ago but I may be wrong with that! Thanks for your speedy reply!