Great British Railways livery: Alternative suggestions/variations

[Uncle Buck]

Absolutely, but the Government doesn't want to bring that back because it would make sense. It always has to be GREATER because it's this government wanting to look compotent

It has a slightly desperate feel to it.

 

[nilvaj395]

It has a slightly desperate feel to it.

Yeah, exactly. It's like going 'we're great now I promise' 'we are so much better than things before' and to be honest it does nothing but making the feeling around using the word great in things absolutely feel tacky. You don't be great by just saying you're great. British Rail as a set of words for a name is direct, clear and with no pompous and egotistical connotations.

I get others points around how we have to look towards the future instead of the past, but the past is very important when it comes to decisions like this because I feel like BR probably came to the same conclusion on many of the same things decades ago that still apply today.

 

[Mike Machin]

I would much prefer 'Rail England' if we really can no longer have British Rail anymore. Besides, it probably better suits the fact that this is purely an England rebrand as TfW and SR are staying.

Yep, Rail England with the Greater Anglia livery and branding would have looked so sophisticated!

And all of other light grey or white based stock could have been re-branded quickly with an interim livery, simply vinyl covering the blue area on Northern or South Western for example with grey and red areas and new Rail England branding.

C2C, South Western, Northern, Thameslink, Cross Country and LNWR could all have been very quickly changed and Greater Anglia would be ‘good to go’ at the very start.

I appreciate that the trains will make incursions into Scotland and Wales, but ScotRail and TfW work into England! Train England and Network Rail could work as two complimentary organisations under a single ownership, just different brands.

Meanwhile, back in the real world…

 

[frankmoh]

Yep, Rail England with the Greater Anglia livery and branding would have looked so sophisticated!

And all of other light grey or white based stock could have been re-branded quickly with an interim livery, simply vinyl covering the blue area on Northern or South Western for example with grey and red areas and new Rail England branding.

Meanwhile, back in the real world…

Have this terrible render from me of a prospective look with a 465. Covering up various bits of the NSE livery seemed to be all the rage in the late 90s.

A crudely doctored image of a Network Southeast 465 but with the blue removed. Original picture by Trevor Stone.

 

[WAB]

Train England and Network Rail could work as two complimentary organisations under a single ownership, just different brands

So what would the staff at Kings Cross have on their uniform? Infrastructure and passenger train operations are being knitted together. Drivers and signallers now report to the same director at South Eastern Railway, and so do fleet and infrastructure engineers. We'll see the old boundaries being broken down more and more over the next few years, and the idea that different staff within the same department will wear different logos is very odd.

 

[PLY2AYS]

Finally got Gemini to play ball and extend the livery along the side - user error.

(picture is of an LNER 80X Azuma with the livery changed from white to blue)

 

[Krokodil]

(picture is of an LNER 80X Azuma with the livery changed from white to blue)

From Norweigan to Icelandic!

 

[PLY2AYS]

From Norweigan to Icelandic!

 

[dorsetdesiro]

I reckon "Rail England" should have a predominantly red livery with white detailing as a white livery with red detailing is already in use by TfW as the two could get confused?

It isn't a problem for Greater Anglia as theirs & TfW's fleets are hardly seen at the same time.


"Rail England" could work if it is a TOC or passenger service of GBR. While the rest such as Network Rail etc would be all GBR as they also manage infrastructure in Wales & Scotland. "National Rail" should signify TfW in Wales, ScotRail in Scotland and Rail England (GBR) in England plus the devolved operators.

Rail England trains could have a small wordmark "operated by GBR" with the double arrow signs.

Bletchleyite is right, there are no issues with TfW & ScotRail trains crossing the border so why not English ones? This English self-punishing & apologising really must stop as after all this what the country is called as the new GBR operated services replacing the TOCs really only applies to England.

This absurdity also could be seen with "National Highways" which does not operate outside England so what was wrong with its previous name "Highways England" which was more appropriate. Same for Scottish & Welsh branded milk sold in supermarkets but "British Milk" for sale in England.

The political correctness of deeming England/English as toxic and forcing the globalised British label on us is ridiculous so why this is not done to the Welsh & Scots.

 

[Leyland Bus]

Finally got Gemini to play ball and extend the livery along the side - user error.

(picture is of an LNER 80X Azuma with the livery changed from white to blue)

Really like that and I knew it reminded me of sth!!

97204 is seen at Derby on 24 June 1989 with 1247 Llandudno - Derby.

Explore 47413PART2's 9526 photos on Flickr!

flic.kr

 

[nilvaj395]

I reckon "Rail England" should have a predominantly red livery with white detailing as a white livery with red detailing is already in use by TfW as the two could get confused?

It isn't a problem for Greater Anglia as theirs & TfW's fleets are hardly seen at the same time.


"Rail England" could work if it is a TOC or passenger service of GBR. While the rest such as Network Rail etc would be all GBR as they also manage infrastructure in Wales & Scotland. "National Rail" should signify TfW in Wales, ScotRail in Scotland and Rail England (GBR) in England plus the devolved operators.

Rail England trains could have a small wordmark "operated by GBR" with the double arrow signs.

Bletchleyite is right, there are no issues with TfW & ScotRail trains crossing the border so why not English ones? This English self-punishing & apologising really must stop as after all this what the country is called as the new GBR operated services replacing the TOCs really only applies to England.

This absurdity also could be seen with "National Highways" which does not operate outside England so what was wrong with its previous name "Highways England" which was more appropriate. Same for Scottish & Welsh branded milk sold in supermarkets but "British Milk" for sale in England.

The political correctness of deeming England/English as toxic and forcing the globalised British label on us is ridiculous so why this is not done to the Welsh & Scots.

That was my concern when it comes to doing a more English-based design idea, but I would still much prefer two red and white liveries over the obsession with the Union Jack. I agree it would be different to have it primarily red. Agree with all of your points too. Why is Wales represented as Wales, Scotland as Scotland, yet England is British... We also had Public Health England which then became "UK Health Security Agency" despite Wales and Scotland having their own bodies with the old 'Public Health (country)' name. The only thing I can come up with is obviously the negative connotations that might be related to using 'English', but if someone has an issue with those, they probably have an equal hatred for 'British' too.

 

[Sorcerer]

Talk of a "Rail England" brand gave me the idea to create an English-themed livery for Northern services that will be absorbed by GBR. Not to toot my own horn too loudly but I actually think it has this subtle Englishness that works despite looking similar to Transport for Wales. I think the red line alone the body along with the doors helps to create a sort of St. George's flag look. Originally I wanted to put add some distinctiveness to some sets with Lancashire and Yorkshire roses but they turned out too small to notice.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Dec 2025 ==

Finally got Gemini to play ball and extend the livery along the side - user error.

(picture is of an LNER 80X Azuma with the livery changed from white to blue)

This actually looks quite excellent even though I'm not a fan of the LNER livery. I think the fact it's not primarily white works in it's favour.

 

[Krokodil]

Talk of a "Rail England" brand gave me the idea to create an English-themed livery for Northern services that will be absorbed by GBR. Not to toot my own horn too loudly but I actually think it has this subtle Englishness that works despite looking similar to Transport for Wales. I think the red line alone the body along with the doors helps to create a sort of St. George's flag look. Originally I wanted to put add some distinctiveness to some sets with Lancashire and Yorkshire roses but they turned out too small to notice.

Reminds me of Intercity, only the whole unit appears to be formed of catering vehicles.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Dec 2025 ==

Moving away from flag-based designs, I mocked up an IET in LNER Coronation livery.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

The brand name "Rail Britain" or "Rail England" would've been a much better name, or even better, just keep the existing franchise / regional identities under government ownership.

But since 2016 everything has had to be "Great Britain" and "world beating" etc.......

Or just British Rail…

If there ever was a separate English railway it should be called English Railways or something. Rail England sounds too Whitehall.

 

[Senex]

That was my concern when it comes to doing a more English-based design idea, but I would still much prefer two red and white liveries over the obsession with the Union Jack. I agree it would be different to have it primarily red. Agree with all of your points too. Why is Wales represented as Wales, Scotland as Scotland, yet England is British... We also had Public Health England which then became "UK Health Security Agency" despite Wales and Scotland having their own bodies with the old 'Public Health (country)' name. The only thing I can come up with is obviously the negative connotations that might be related to using 'English', but if someone has an issue with those, they probably have an equal hatred for 'British' too.

The old-established political parties have been ashamed of “England” and “English” for a good many years whilst the Scots Nd the Welsh have become more proud of their heritage — which all leaves the field wide open for the Reform lot and others like them.
As for “Great British Railways”, I suppose most of us know that the first two words are not supposed to be a value judgement but just refer to the big island. However, when it’s read out, most people seem to stress the three words evenly, so it does sound highly pretentious (or perhaps American boasting), whereas if the first word is lightly stressed so as to be just descriptive, the whole thing sounds odd.

 

[generalnerd]

The names not very slick, we could change that maybe

Enrail?
Brittrack?
Great British railway journeys?
National rail?
Supertrain?

We could steal the name they use in Germany, Deutsche Bahn (would be British rail in our case, sounds all to familiar

Pinch from the French and call it the British National Railway Company (BNRC)

Pinch from the Spanish (Renfe) which would be National Network of British railways

The Dutch have Nederlandse Spoorwegen (Dutch railways) which would be British railways for us…

What I’m getting at here is that the name isn’t so slick, many European operators have some variation of ‘national/country rail/ways in some capacity, why do we have to add the unnecessary ‘great’ onto something that will almost definitely not be ‘great’ but will be ‘ok, I guess, idk I only use it once or twice a week’ or ‘it’s absolutely rubbish, the train is late and the seats are tiny’

 

[PMN1]

Reminds me of Intercity, only the whole unit appears to be formed of catering vehicles.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Dec 2025 ==

Moving away from flag-based designs, I mocked up an IET in LNER Coronation livery.

Wasn't there a toothpaste this colour?

 

[Sorcerer]

What I’m getting at here is that the name isn’t so slick, many European operators have some variation of ‘national/country rail/ways in some capacity, why do we have to add the unnecessary ‘great’ onto something that will almost definitely not be ‘great’ but will be ‘ok, I guess, idk I only use it once or twice a week’ or ‘it’s absolutely rubbish, the train is late and the seats are tiny’

In a technical sense because they will be railways operating on the island of Great Britain, hence why they were called Great British Railways, and it fits in alongside Northern Ireland Railways (or perhaps Great Britain Railways would've been the better name in that case).

Of course there was elements of nationalist flag-waving involved, but this was a product of the previous Conservative government riding on post-Brexit nationalism when GBR was planned to be a concession-based model rather than proper renationalisation. The name just stuck for convenience.

I think British Railways would've sufficed as a simple name that differed from British Rail, but the current name isn't the worst thing in the world. I'd consider it the second or third best option personally. Had BritRail not already been used as a name for the travel pass that could've possibly been a good option.

 

[nilvaj395]

The names not very slick, we could change that maybe

Enrail?
Brittrack?
Great British railway journeys?
National rail?
Supertrain?

We could steal the name they use in Germany, Deutsche Bahn (would be British rail in our case, sounds all to familiar

Pinch from the French and call it the British National Railway Company (BNRC)

Pinch from the Spanish (Renfe) which would be National Network of British railways

The Dutch have Nederlandse Spoorwegen (Dutch railways) which would be British railways for us…

What I’m getting at here is that the name isn’t so slick, many European operators have some variation of ‘national/country rail/ways in some capacity, why do we have to add the unnecessary ‘great’ onto something that will almost definitely not be ‘great’ but will be ‘ok, I guess, idk I only use it once or twice a week’ or ‘it’s absolutely rubbish, the train is late and the seats are tiny’

Aside from Enrail or an English-only name, I mean BNRC like the French is the only way we could go as all of the others are just going back to British Rail(ways). It is almost like that name was figured out for very good reasons a long time ago, we just refuse to use it because we always must be 'greater'

 

[PLY2AYS]

The names not very slick, we could change that maybe

Enrail?
Brittrack?
Great British railway journeys?
National rail?
Supertrain?

Rail Britannia?

 

[HighlandStorm]

At risk of veering off topic like one of the overturned HGVs on the M74 during Storm Bram - the reason England was dropped from Highways England and Public Health England was nothing to do with wishing to avoid using England in names - it was part of the last Tory Government's strategy of 'Muscular Unionism' as unleashed by Boris Johnson and Alastair Jack.

Next year this Labour government will probably rename National Highways to Great British Roads. Motorways will stay blue but be numbered G*** for the 'great roads', Trunk/Primary roads will see green replaced by red and A will be replaced by B*** for 'British roads' and existing B roads will become R for 'Regional roads' and keep their white signs.

The A1(M) will become the B1(G) - its a really big important road after all.

 

[nilvaj395]

At risk of veering off topic like one of the overturned HGVs on the M74 during Storm Bram - the reason England was dropped from Highways England and Public Health England was nothing to do with wishing to avoid using England in names - it was part of the last Tory Government's strategy of 'Muscular Unionism' as unleashed by Boris Johnson and Alastair Jack.

Next year this Labour government will probably rename National Highways to Great British Roads. Motorways will stay blue but be numbered G*** for the 'great roads', Trunk/Primary roads will see green replaced by red and A will be replaced by B*** for 'British roads' and existing B roads will become R for 'Regional roads' and keep their white signs.

The A1(M) will become the B1(G) - its a really big important road after all.

Quite, quite tired of the political cycle of conservatives doing stupid/bad things and then Labour comes along and then turns said things up to 11 using what the conservatives have started. I would say more but that would be off-topic. But it is pretty much everywhere.

No surprise the Americanisation 'muscular unionism' was originally a Boris Johnson idea, another idea that shoots itself in the foot as it only makes a stronger case for why there should be more devolution. Renaming parts of the English system to call it the 'UK system' when it has little to no authority on the develoved nations' equivalents, will only ever seek to increase the tension within the union and resistance to it.

Anyways, apologies for off-topic.

 

[devonexpress]

I hope people don't mind me joining in the discussion. This is my own idea for the brand taking inspiration from LNER, Chiltern and the previous Intercity Swallow livery.

This would be the livery for all Intercity/Express services and could be modified for the service it provides i.e GBR CrossCounty, GBR Transpennine Express or just known as GBR Intercity. The regional look would be slightly different similar to the Chiltern livery on a Class 172 & 196.

 

[Sorcerer]

I hope people don't mind me joining in the discussion. This is my own idea for the brand taking inspiration from LNER, Chiltern and the previous Intercity Swallow livery.

This would be the livery for all Intercity/Express services and could be modified for the service it provides i.e GBR CrossCounty, GBR Transpennine Express or just known as GBR Intercity. The regional look would be slightly different similar to the Chiltern livery on a Class 172 & 196.

That's pretty good actually. I've found it quite tricky to get a livery that flows equally as well on both a Pendolino and an IET but you've managed it quite nicely here. This could also work as a livery for a non-GBR company as well in my opinion.

 

[Northerngirl]

I hope people don't mind me joining in the discussion. This is my own idea for the brand taking inspiration from LNER, Chiltern and the previous Intercity Swallow livery.

This would be the livery for all Intercity/Express services and could be modified for the service it provides i.e GBR CrossCounty, GBR Transpennine Express or just known as GBR Intercity. The regional look would be slightly different similar to the Chiltern livery on a Class 172 & 196.

That looks fantastic

 

[Bletchleyite]

That looks fantastic

It does. It's not wildly different from the older Swiss livery. Maybe a red stripe under the windows?

Main thing I dislike about the proposed one is that it doesn't match the curves of the unit - that can easily be adjusted so it does.

 

[Callum450]

Here is my redesign!

I decided to keep the colour pallet the same and retain the sharp angles but I made the livery more appealing (for me at least) to look at.

I created an alternative livery variants for both ‘Long distance’ and ‘Local’ trains and brought back sectors because I think they look nice.

Any thoughts?

 

[Leyland Bus]

Here is my redesign!

I decided to keep the colour pallet the same and retain the sharp angles but I made the livery more appealing (for me at least) to look at.

I created an alternative livery variants for both ‘Long distance’ and ‘Local’ trains and brought back sectors because I think they look nice.

Any thoughts?

View attachment 193804

My absolute favourite so far! Excellent work!

Now please send it to SGBR!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Here is my redesign!

I decided to keep the colour pallet the same and retain the sharp angles but I made the livery more appealing (for me at least) to look at.

I created an alternative livery variants for both ‘Long distance’ and ‘Local’ trains and brought back sectors because I think they look nice.

Any thoughts?

View attachment 193804

Wow, that really does work. Presumably just the blue with dark window surround on the intermediates?

 

[PMN1]

Angry eyes on the long distance version.