Class 730 LNR & WMR Delivery/test Updates

[778]

Google AI came up with this


More redundant coupled cabs = less seats, more gangways blocked. An enhancement!

It is a good thing that that the oder was changed as a lot of the 5 car units would have had 3+2 seating.

 

[Russel]

That's correct, but as far as I'm aware cross city was always planned to only use 3 car sets. The original order of 36 units was specified to allow 6tph operation on the route (16 diagrams) with double sets all day (so 32 units needed out of 36). The coaches in both the 5 and 3 car units are the same length, so a pair of 3 cars has a higher capacity than 5 cars. Also platform lengths are based around 6 cars, so it makes sense to maximise length to fit.
Subsequently the plan was changed so more 3 car sets were built to be used on other local services around Birmingham. I'm guessing that prior to this change, the idea was that the 5 cars would displace most of the class 350s on services out of Euston, and these class 350s would then be redeployed around Birmingham; now, there are fewer 5 cars so more class 350s are remaining out of Euston, with the additional 3 car class 730s filling the gap around Birmingham.

(Ignoring the temporary use of pairs of 3 cars on peak time services out of Euston)

Why not just order the 730/0s as 6 car units?

 

[ABB125]

Why not just order the 730/0s as 6 car units?

Possibly something to do with depot space? Soho depot (where the class 730s and class 323s before them are maintained) appears only be set up for 3 car operation - measurement via Google Maps suggests that the main shed is only 94m long, whereas a 6 car class 730 would be somewhere around 140-145m long.
I would agree that fixed formation 6 car sets would be good for Cross City, but would probably be overkill for some of the other Birmingham local routes - however I'm not familiar with loadings other than Cross City so am happy to be corrected.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Why not just order the 730/0s as 6 car units?

A train booked 2x3 can still run 1x3 in the event of a fault. With 1x6, it would more likely be an outright cancellation. However, doesn't mean some units couldn't have been delivered as 6.

 

[Russel]

A train booked 2x3 can still run 1x3 in the event of a fault. With 1x6, it would more likely be an outright cancellation. However, doesn't mean some units couldn't have been delivered as 6.

I've never really been convinced by this argument, time and time again we see TOCs take the easy route and just cancel the service entirely.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Dec 2025 ==

Not on the/0. There are 2 on a /2 though

Had a walk through my 730/2 on the way home, I see what you mean about the small toilet not being obvious, it does look a lot like some kind of equipment cupboard!

 

[40029 Saxonia]

Gascoigne Wood to Old Dalby.

So I think that now means that other than 219 (BY) the other seven left to enter service (201/2/3/4/6/27/36) are at Old Dalby

 

[Bald Rick]

I've never really been convinced by this argument, time and time again we see TOCs take the easy route and just cancel the service entirely.

And time and again there are shortforms which counter this argument!

 

[800001]

201/2/3/4/6/27/36

I believe 203 is at Gascoigne Wood.

 

[rogercov]

730219 on 2B06 Bletchley-Euston and 1W51 Euston-Northampton today according to RTT
First time in passenger service?

 

[Liverpool 507]

Is there any likelihood of a 730 on Liverpool services in the future or of a weekend?

 

[Chris172]

Is there any likelihood of a 730 on Liverpool services in the future or of a weekend?

They are going to be booked 350s from tomorrow and all week. The 730/2s are going on the Trent Valley services and London services mixed with the 350.

Maybe more 12 car services on the BHM to EUS services

 

[185]

Is there any likelihood of a 730 on Liverpool services in the future or of a weekend?

Not booked, but knowing the random unit allocation, all trains will turn up on both routes somehow.

I remember in 2020 being laughed at on this forum when I suggested one of those "little squat 3 car orange things" would find it's way to London, on a peak time commuter service. Well, yep, no surprise there.

 

[Russel]

I remember in 2020 being laughed at on this forum when I suggested one of those "little squat 3 car orange things" would find it's way to London, on a peak time commuter service. Well, yep, no surprise there.

I still find it odd whenever I'm at Euston and I see one of my local units!

 

[bnsf734]

Looking at RTT this morning every Euston - Crewe service on the Trent Valley line is formed of 2x730/2 today. Travelled on one yesterday Nuneaton to Milton Keynes and they really have the capacity to move the crowds. Quite an increase in service from 4 car 350s a few years ago. Hopefully no more standing Nuneaton to London!

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Looking at RTT this morning every Euston - Crewe service on the Trent Valley line is formed of 2x730/2 today. Travelled on one yesterday Nuneaton to Milton Keynes and they really have the capacity to move the crowds. Quite an increase in service from 4 car 350s a few years ago. Hopefully no more standing Nuneaton to London!

No guarantee of that. Certainly more chance of a seat.

Vast majority of services will be 10 car from today, at a huge detriment to the Liverpool service. Personally I'd rather them be split over the routes

 

[Russel]

Looking at RTT this morning every Euston - Crewe service on the Trent Valley line is formed of 2x730/2 today. Travelled on one yesterday Nuneaton to Milton Keynes and they really have the capacity to move the crowds. Quite an increase in service from 4 car 350s a few years ago. Hopefully no more standing Nuneaton to London!

I've been really looking forward to this myself, the Trent Valley has been a real success story and 8 car 350s haven't been enough on a lot of service over the las couple of years, the extra capacity is gratefully received! I know there is the odd 12 car diagram at the weekends, but they seem to be the exception to the rule.

As you say, from the 4 car service a few years ago, it's come a long way!

 

[sufian123]

Bit of topic looks like they getting 350 allocations wrong and that’s wht been fed back to RTT. For Liverpool routes. X has confirmed it. It’s internal. I wonder how many 730s are wrong today.

 

[Peeled Apples]

I've had a quick look RTT it looks like there's one Trent Valley round trip with 350s and the 730s that take over the diagram come in from New Street.

 

[Omnishambles]

I've been really looking forward to this myself, the Trent Valley has been a real success story and 8 car 350s haven't been enough on a lot of service over the las couple of years, the extra capacity is gratefully received! I know there is the odd 12 car diagram at the weekends, but they seem to be the exception to the rule.

As you say, from the 4 car service a few years ago, it's come a long way!

..and even further away from when I first moved to Lichfield when there was only a few VTs up to London AM and back PM with maybe a couple off peak and a local Stafford to Nuneaton single car 153 at no particular clock face times if I remember rightly (!)… How times have changed for the better.
Now to get the CrossCity back to City and Trent Valley terminators with more than 2tph

 

[rogercov]

Since the new timetable started, there should be 11 x 10-car diagrams (Mon-Fri), ignoring the odd 5-car services at the start and end of each day.
However, yesterday and today, one diagram has been only 5-car all day.

This would imply that there are currently only 21 serviceable units.

As far as I can see, 29 of the 36 units have been in passenger service at some time in the past so 7 of them may currently have issues. This does imply a rather high number of faulty units. Is this to be expected?

 

[Russel]

..and even further away from when I first moved to Lichfield when there was only a few VTs up to London AM and back PM with maybe a couple off peak and a local Stafford to Nuneaton single car 153 at no particular clock face times if I remember rightly (!)… How times have changed for the better.
Now to get the CrossCity back to City and Trent Valley terminators with more than 2tph

I remember the dark days of the 153s on the Trent Valley well!

 

[Jamesrob637]

Are not all Birmingham to Liverpool booked 8 following the introduction of the 730s?

 

[38Cto15E]

I was on a Euston to Crewe 2x 5 car on Monday and both myself and the TM could not lock the toilet door.

 

[45076]

I remember the dark days of the 153s on the Trent Valley well!

153's, I can remember 117's and 304's doing the locals up and down the valley.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Are not all Birmingham to Liverpool booked 8 following the introduction of the 730s?

In a word. No.

 

[Peeled Apples]

153's, I can remember 117's and 304's doing the locals up and down the valley.

I remember the 304s well and the occasional 303 when they moved south.

 

[45076]

I remember the 304s well and the occasional 303 when they moved south.

bouncing down the valley, happy days

 

[Peter Sarf]

I remember the 304s well and the occasional 303 when they moved south.

I remember those 4car 304s back in the 70s on the Trent Valley, one every two hours iirc ?.

How far we have come to 2 x 5 car 730s at a tempting frequency.

 

[Peeled Apples]

I remember those 4car 304s back in the 70s on the Trent Valley, one every two hours iirc ?.

How far we have come to 2 x 5 car 730s at a tempting frequency.

IIRC one unit did round trips from Stafford to Rugby, at Rugeley Trent Valley that was our only service now we get half hourly to New Street and 10 carriage hourly to Euston all with new trains times have certainly changed.

 

[Peter Sarf]

IIRC one unit did round trips from Stafford to Rugby, at Rugeley Trent Valley that was our only service now we get half hourly to New Street and 10 carriage hourly to Euston all with new trains times have certainly changed.

I think you are right. When I spent whole days at Tamworth I think I kept seeing the same 304.
The Trent valley has gone from being a service that perhaps BR did not want cluttering up that section of the WCML to a proper service as indicated by the 730s (and 350s before). Of course the superior acceleration of the 730s will mean less cluttering up of the slow lines.