Breaking: TransPennine Express Franchise Extension

[185]

http://www.tpexpress.co.uk/about-ftpe/media-centre/86/franchise-decision-welcomed.htm


Due to end on 31 January 2012 will now run for a further three years and 2 months until 1 April 2015.

 

[gordonthemoron]

is that until the completion of Manchester-WCML electrification?

 

[tbtc]

Similar deadline for Northern too?

I can't make my mind up over whether the Government deferring the hard decisions over franchises is a good thing or a bad. At least they aren't letting any *bad* franchises (like the no-growth ATW/ Northern), but I'd like an indication of which way things are going...

 

[Super Sprinter]

Who would have replaced them had the extension not been granted?

 

[Failed Unit]

Who would have replaced them had the extension not been granted?

Directly Operated Railways

April 2015 - interesting timing just before an election!

 

[Kingfisher200262]

Don't you think it's strange that there's been no DfT press notice on this? I thought that things of this nature had to be reported before the stock market opened, as this must have some effect of First Group's share price?

EDIT:: Philip Hammond has just issued a Statement on future franchising policy. Haven't had time to read it yet, but assume FTPE is included.

EDIT 2:: Hammond's statement says this: -

I have concluded an agreement with First Keolis TransPennine Express (TPE) which extends the current franchise. The extension incorporates the flexibility to terminate the franchise between April 2014 and March 2015. This flexibility could allow the start dates for the new Northern and TransPennine franchises to be aligned in April 2014, by also exercising the short extension provision in the current Northern franchise. Having both existing franchises end at the same date could allow for these franchises to be combined, or split in different ways. I will be considering the optimal configuration and intend to seek views on the optimum structure from local interested parties. The timescales outlined above will allow for proper consultation and consideration of the possibilities of a radical restructuring in the Northern/TPE area.

Technically therefore, the First Group headline is inaccurate, in that they may only go on until April 2014 and then be merged with Northern.

 

[Masbroughlad]

It all seems very fishy to me! No prpoper news anywhere beforehand.

The government seem to be afraid of doing anything with the franchises and just keep extending them. Does that mean we are heading for a big bang shake up that they are working on? Or is it that they aren't really that bothered?

Whatever, I am a bit disappointed that TPE are keeping this for longer without any competition. There shold have been more provision made for the terrible overcrowding we get on TPE.

 

[northwichcat]

Similar deadline for Northern too?

Can they extend the Northern franchise again as an extension option has already been taken up?

 

[jon0844]

I saw on Twitter that FCC won't get an extension and a new franchise will start in 2013? Is that true?

 

[northwichcat]

According to this site the extended franchise can be terminated at any time between April 2014 and March 2015: http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/08/05/firstgroup-brief-idUSL3E7J514P20110805
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I think this article has got it wrong, but I hope they haven't. It mentions 1,200 new carriages for TPE and Northern: http://www.sharecast.com/cgi-bin/sharecast/story.cgi?story_id=4416344

 

[Blindtraveler]

what a cop out! Leav things unchanged but yet he must know how bad certain aspects, e.g crouding are as i'm sure thousands have complained!

 

[sprinterguy]

It all seems very fishy to me! No prpoper news anywhere beforehand.

The government seem to be afraid of doing anything with the franchises and just keep extending them. Does that mean we are heading for a big bang shake up that they are working on?

Yes, the DfT have been working on rewriting the franchise structure, so that future franchises will be let under the third variant of rail franchising, with West Coast being the first under the new regime. Looking at Kingfishers' post, the DfT may have now completed the process.

Due to this restructuring, the DfT have avoided letting any more franchises under the old regime, and there is no reason whatsoever in the majority of cases why the various franchises should not be extended up to the maximum length as specified in the franchise contract as long as the various performance criteria are being met.

I'm surprised that the TPE franchise has not been extended to the full length of its' optional extension, which would have taken it up to 31st January 2017, which adds some credence to the theory that a TPE merger with Northern is on the horizon.

 

[Masbroughlad]

I'm surprised that the TPE franchise has not been extended to the full length of its' optional extension, which would have taken it up to 31st December 2017, and adds some credence to the theory that a TPE merger with Northern is on the horizon.

So going full circle again! TP used to be part of Northern Spirit! (OK without the NW trains bit).

 

[sprinterguy]

I think this article has got it wrong, but I hope they haven't. It mentions 1,200 new carriages for TPE and Northern: http://www.sharecast.com/cgi-bin/sharecast/story.cgi?story_id=4416344

It's probably just the same old speal about the additional carriages proposed for the whole country being quoted in a story out of context unfortunately.

I did notice this in that article:

The extension will allow greater flexibility in the refranchising of the future TransPennine Express and Northern franchises,

Sounds like a grouping together of the two could well become a reality...

 

[F Great Eastern]

First Capital Connect has been handed a 17 month extension.

Instead of ending on 31st March 2012 it will now end on 14 September 2013.

 

[northwichcat]

So going full circle again! TP used to be part of Northern Spirit! (OK without the NW trains bit).

The North West bits plus Manchester/Birmingham/Crewe to North Wales, Conwy Valley, Crewe-Chester and Bidston-Wrexham were all part of First North Western.

 

[Aictos]

5 August 2011 FIRSTGROUP PLC STATEMENT RE: FIRST TRANSPENNINE EXPRESS AND FIRST CAPITAL CONNECT RAIL FRANCHISES FirstGroup plc, the leading transport operator in the UK and North America, welcomed today's announcement on rail refranchising by the Department for Transport (DfT). The First TransPennine Express franchise will be extended for over three years to 1 April 2015, which will allow greater flexibility in the refranchising of the future TransPennine Express and Northern franchises. The Thameslink/Great Northern franchise, operated by First Capital Connect, will be refranchised in 2012/13 with a replacement franchise to commence from 15 September 2013. This will help to facilitate the continued project delivery of the Thameslink Programme, in particular the introduction of new rolling stock, which will be completed after the expiry date of the existing franchise. Commenting, Tim O'Toole, Group Chief Executive, said: "We are delighted that the DfT has taken the decision to extend the First TransPennine Express franchise to 1 April 2015. Since we started operating the franchise in 2004 we have delivered a number of improvements including the introduction of a GBP260m new train fleet and passenger numbers have grown from 13m to 24m per annum. We will continue to work closely with the DfT and our stakeholders in the region to develop plans for the future of rail in the north of England and to further develop the Anglo-Scottish services. "At First Capital Connect we have worked closely with the DfT and Network Rail to deliver the initial phase of the Thameslink Programme successfully. This is a major investment that is already bringing benefits to passengers and will transform a key part of London's transport network. Our unrivalled knowledge and experience of managing this key project gives us a strong foundation to continue to help deliver this programme in the future franchise."

 

[IanXC]

The full announcement and further details will apparently appear later, but apparently Ardwick Depot will be extended and electrified for Scottish services, and some Northern routes will transfer to TPE in 2013.

Does anyone know any more about this, or have a source for it?

 

[Kingfisher200262]

Does anyone know any more about this, or have a source for it?

I think this is a red herring. I think there will now be a status quo until the franchising process, which might begin with a consultation process on whether TPE and Northern should merge.

 

[185]

Does anyone know any more about this, or have a source for it?

Not heard anything about changes to AK depot yet. Only announcements are in relation to them having a short extension to the franchise.

So yes, two more years of people stood up on short formed trains.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It was obvious that something had to be done as an interim measure with the First TPE franchaise as the implications of the existing date termination of only a matter of months would have led to instability.

 

[swt_passenger]

It's probably just the same old speal about the additional carriages proposed for the whole country being quoted in a story out of context unfortunately.

No, I'm almost sure what happened is that the original news release from First covered both TPE and FCC, (as quoted in full later in the thread), and the 'sharecast' journalist accidentally dumbed it down by missing out the FCC stuff that came just before the 1200 new Thameslink carriages...

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Not heard anything about changes to AK depot yet. Only announcements are in relation to them having a short extension to the franchise.

Ardwick has been proposed as the likely depot for the Manchester - Scotland EMUs, on the assumption they will be Siemens maintained 350s, and a separate depot for around 10 units would be uneconomic.

 

[northwichcat]

Ardwick has been proposed as the likely depot for the Manchester - Scotland EMUs, on the assumption they will be Siemens maintained 350s, and a separate depot for around 10 units would be uneconomic.

Some online rail blog writers are suggesting it will be 380/2s for Manchester Airport to Scotland as the proposed 110mph wouldn't be possible with 350s but would be with a revised 380 spec.

 

[Kingfisher200262]

No, I'm almost sure what happened is that the original news release from First covered both TPE and FCC, (as quoted in full later in the thread), and the 'sharecast' journalist accidentally dumbed it down by missing out the FCC stuff that came just before the 1200 new Thameslink carriages...

Am I missing something? Under the new franchising timetable, not a single Thameslink vehicle will be delivered within the existing FCC franchise, and First might not be the franchisee when they do start to be delivered.

Ardwick has been proposed as the likely depot for the Manchester - Scotland EMUs, on the assumption they will be Siemens maintained 350s, and a separate depot for around 10 units would be uneconomic.

It makes sense that Siemens would propose Ardwick as the maintenance location for the Manchester-Scotland fleet. I assume that the Northampton depot is large enough for an additional units for LM, but maintaining the Ma-Sc units there would not make sense.

 

[northwichcat]

It makes sense that Siemens would propose Ardwick as the maintenance location for the Manchester-Scotland fleet. I assume that the Northampton depot is large enough for an additional units for LM, but maintaining the Ma-Sc units there would not make sense.

That's assuming LM get any extra 350s. It's not confirmed and it could well be the case that by the time DfT look in to that the production line is closed and it would be too expensive to reopen (as with the proposed 4th cars for 185s.)

LM have been able to click their fingers and get new stock up until now but I don't expect that to continue.

One point about Siemens is that they've got a huge Thameslink order and the Manchester-Scotland order is needed before Thameslink, so could giving the order to Siemens actually delay the Thameslink order?

 

[IanXC]

Some online rail blog writers are suggesting it will be 380/2s for Manchester Airport to Scotland as the proposed 110mph wouldn't be possible with 350s but would be with a revised 380 spec.

In which case would it be better to maintain these 380/2s with the existing 380 fleet at the Scottish end of the route?

 

[swt_passenger]

Am I missing something? Under the new franchising timetable, not a single Thameslink vehicle will be delivered within the existing FCC franchise, and First might not be the franchisee when they do start to be delivered.

I'm just going by the quote in ajax103's earlier post, which is clearly referring to the ongoing Thameslink rolling stock:

This will help to facilitate the continued project delivery of the Thameslink Programme, in particular the introduction of new rolling stock, which will be completed after the expiry date of the existing franchise...

I'm still convinced that is why the earlier report is confused about 1200 carriages - ie the very number announced for Thameslink...

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Some online rail blog writers are suggesting it will be 380/2s for Manchester Airport to Scotland as the proposed 110mph wouldn't be possible with 350s but would be with a revised 380 spec.

They can suggest all they like. More 350s was specified in the ITT, and 110 mph seems to be an imaginary requirement.

 

[northwichcat]

They can suggest all they like. More 350s was specified in the ITT, and 110 mph seems to be an imaginary requirement.

Have you got a link for that? The only mention of 350s in an official document I recall was cascaded 350s off LM services to run Manchester Airport to Scotland after IEP replaces 350s on Northampton-London. However, Northampton-London is not still being considered as an IEP route.

The new 350 suggestion seems to come from Tony Miles in Modern Railways, as reported on another thread and even then it's suggested as an interim solution, while the Network Rail WCML RUS suggests 110mph stock.

 

[swt_passenger]

They didn't explicitly state 350, (probably not allowed to for legal reasons) but used the wording "preferably operationally compatible with existing London Midland vehicle fleet"; which I think everyone took to mean more 350s. IIRC SWT siad much the same thing in their ITT.

The London Midland ITT is here:

http://www.publictenders.net/tenders/archive/80997

however the idea that the Manchester - Scotland was later tacked on I can only blame on various rail magazines.

 

[northwichcat]

The London Midland ITT is here:

http://www.publictenders.net/tenders/archive/80997

If you look at the document it's dated April 2009 and says the preferred tenders will be selected imminently and units will be service by May 2011.

I think that was the tender for replacing 323s should LM's 323s have gone to Northern with some extras tagged on as extra capacity and 321 replacement. I know it mentions FC but the tender's for 3 and 4 car units and only states 18 FC seats for 4 car trains.