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Class 730 LNR & WMR Delivery/test Updates

Russel

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Apologies for slightly digressing and if the answer is buried somewhere in the previous 125 pages of the thread;

From the timetable change later this month, am I correct in believing the intended 350 / 730 usage will be as follows;

730 (5-car batch) - Euston to Crewe, and Euston to Tring / MK locals
350 - Euston to Birmingham via Northampton, Birmingham to Liverpool, and Watford to St. Albans Abbey

Many thanks in advance for any confirmation / correction.

Was about to ask the same question myself, regarding what the planned final allocations will be for these.

Will there be many 350 diagrams remaining on the Trent Valleys?

I've used the 730s quite a lot recently and I've really grown to like them, really nice units, they are what the GA 720s should have been.
 
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Peeled Apples

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Was about to ask the same question myself, regarding what the planned final allocations will be for these.

Will there be many 350 diagrams remaining on the Trent Valleys?

I've used the 730s quite a lot recently and I've really grown to like them, really nice units, they are what the GA 720s should have been.
The LNWR summary of services timetable shows the amount of carriages and according to that there’s one round trip of 8 carriages M-F 08.46 from Euston and 11.13 from Crewe.
 

Russel

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The LNWR summary of services timetable shows the amount of carriages and according to that there’s one round trip of 8 carriages M-F 08.46 from Euston and 11.13 from Crewe.

That's good news, as much as I don't have an issue with the 350s, the extra capacity is needed on the majority of services.
 

Bayum

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What sort of speed and ease do the 730s have on the Lickey? Found an old 323 cab view journey last night which showed the EMU travelling with ease but didn’t pick up much speed.
 

boxerdog

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What sort of speed and ease do the 730s have on the Lickey? Found an old 323 cab view journey last night which showed the EMU travelling with ease but didn’t pick up much speed.
It's possible to be faster than you want to be at the top of the Lickey-I'll leave that to you to understand what I mean. They're certainly (quite a bit) faster than 323s (although we're mandated to use less power on starting away than a 323-so it'll be rare that you see a 'launch control' start), it's taken drivers some adjustment, in slippery conditions under power they're not the greatest and WMT now uses a lot more sand than they used to, as 730s have an amazing appetite for it.
 

Russel

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It's possible to be faster than you want to be at the top of the Lickey-I'll leave that to you to understand what I mean. They're certainly (quite a bit) faster than 323s (although we're mandated to use less power on starting away than a 323-so it'll be rare that you see a 'launch control' start), it's taken drivers some adjustment, in slippery conditions under power they're not the greatest and WMT now uses a lot more sand than they used to, as 730s have an amazing appetite for it.

I do recall a few "launch control" starts when they were first being introduced!

I guess it takes a while to loose the 323 muscle memory.
 

Bayum

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It's possible to be faster than you want to be at the top of the Lickey-I'll leave that to you to understand what I mean. They're certainly (quite a bit) faster than 323s (although we're mandated to use less power on starting away than a 323-so it'll be rare that you see a 'launch control' start), it's taken drivers some adjustment, in slippery conditions under power they're not the greatest and WMT now uses a lot more sand than they used to, as 730s have an amazing appetite for it.
I mean, aside from riding trains, I’m none the wiser about driving/track conditions.
 

Omnishambles

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The LNWR summary of services timetable shows the amount of carriages and according to that there’s one round trip of 8 carriages M-F 08.46 from Euston and 11.13 from Crewe.
Have you a link ? Looked on the site and couldn’t see anything showing number of coaches
 

ABB125

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Both cross city services I went on today had the gangway between units closed off (looked like some sort of doorway beyond the sliding glass doors had been shut). Is this a new thing/new policy, or was I just unlucky twice? I don't recall this occuring on previous trips...
Also, the toilet was out of use in both units on this morning's train (yes, I got off and walked along the platform in order to board the other unit).
 

Russel

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Both cross city services I went on today had the gangway between units closed off (looked like some sort of doorway beyond the sliding glass doors had been shut). Is this a new thing/new policy, or was I just unlucky twice? I don't recall this occuring on previous trips...
Also, the toilet was out of use in both units on this morning's train (yes, I got off and walked along the platform in order to board the other unit).

I don't think I've been on an X-City 730 that I've been able to walk through, which sort of makes the gangways a bit pointless.
 

SCDR_WMR

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The policy re:closed gangways is this is allowed, but must be agreed with control prior. The XCity services will see this happen regularly due to the intensive nature of the service/diagrams and guards requesting a guaranteed seat.

You will find some 10 car units that run with the gangways closed off too. The doors are difficult to use during travel, with very fiddly and hard to turn locks so those staff that struggle to stand up for 2hrs on a moving train will likely request the same.

Its seen as poor optics to have a guard sitting in the saloon when working a train, so the cabs can be utilised for that the issue this creates being the driver's side cab can only be used standing behind the chair, so can't be used unless in cab mode
 

Russel

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You must have been really unlucky, they've been open everytime I've been on them.

Closed more often than not.

Its seen as poor optics to have a guard sitting in the saloon when working a train, so the cabs can be utilised for that the issue this creates being the driver's side cab can only be used standing behind the chair, so can't be used unless in cab mode

Can the guards not use the rearmost cab, leaving the middle cabs open as a gangway for passengers?
 

800001

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The policy re:closed gangways is this is allowed, but must be agreed with control prior. The XCity services will see this happen regularly due to the intensive nature of the service/diagrams and guards requesting a guaranteed seat.

You will find some 10 car units that run with the gangways closed off too. The doors are difficult to use during travel, with very fiddly and hard to turn locks so those staff that struggle to stand up for 2hrs on a moving train will likely request the same.

Its seen as poor optics to have a guard sitting in the saloon when working a train, so the cabs can be utilised for that the issue this creates being the driver's side cab can only be used standing behind the chair, so can't be used unless in cab mode
Another poorly designed train/despatch process/guard office location if the gangway allowing customers to freely move throughout the train is locked out of use a lot of the time!
 

Kite159

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Another poorly designed train/despatch process/guard office location if the gangway allowing customers to freely move throughout the train is locked out of use a lot of the time!
Especially when the toilets are not the most reliable.
 

Laurencemcd

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What sort of speed and ease do the 730s have on the Lickey? Found an old 323 cab view journey last night which showed the EMU travelling with ease but didn’t pick up much speed.
I always found that some 323 units were faster than others, in particular 210, which I’ve clocked reaching 67mph before the summit, subject to GPS accuracy. I think 730s can pretty much hit line speed by the summit, which again is subject to GPS accuracy.
 

Peter Mugridge

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I don't think I've been on an X-City 730 that I've been able to walk through, which sort of makes the gangways a bit pointless.
Interesting. I've been able to walk through on most and only ever had two instances where I couldn't.
 

SCDR_WMR

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Closed more often than not.



Can the guards not use the rearmost cab, leaving the middle cabs open as a gangway for passengers?
Depends on the station, many would not be safe due to curvature/fixtures blocking the view of the PTI. That and it's not really the best option given you've got to then judge what's happening 240m away.
Another poorly designed train/despatch process/guard office location if the gangway allowing customers to freely move throughout the train is locked out of use a lot of the time!
If only they had specced a TM office, alas they were ordered to be DOO and then bodged into the current situation.
Especially when the toilets are not the most reliable.
Indeed. Though much of this stems from the space-saver not being utilised as it doesn't look like a toilet. Which leads to the universal being used all the time and getting full rather quickly.

There is a 'toilet taskforce' within the TOC but nobody knows what they do, certainly don't seem to be helping. Being unable to tank away from a depot is another blunder on the order form.
 

185

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Especially when the toilets are not the most reliable.
Which in a brand new train is unforgivable - putting the tanking pipes below plaform level and generally poor reliability.

Both cross city services I went on today had the gangway between units closed off...
Which begs the question why the 5-car 730/0 Cross City order was abandoned. Could they expand them 3-car to 5-car, I wonder?

.

These fleet decisions need to be examined & investigated after DfT take over in February, as long term, they are affecting operation performance.
 

Russel

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Indeed. Though much of this stems from the space-saver not being utilised as it doesn't look like a toilet. Which leads to the universal being used all the time and getting full rather quickly.


There's a space saver toilet on the 730/0s?

Can't say I've spotted it on the 730/2s either, but I've never really looked.
 

185

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I don't think any of the 5 cars were ever planned to be used on the cross city? Rather on services out of Euston

Google AI came up with this
Cyberdyne Systems said:
The order amendment for the Class 730 fleet was made to increase the proportion of three-car units, resulting in the delivery of 48 three-car units and 36 five-car units instead of the original plan for 36 three-car units and 45 five-car units. This amendment was announced in 2022 and is part of a larger investment to enhance the fleet's capacity and modern features.

More redundant coupled cabs = less seats, more gangways blocked. An enhancement!
 

ABB125

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Google AI came up with this


More redundant coupled cabs = less seats, more gangways blocked. An enhancement!
That's correct, but as far as I'm aware cross city was always planned to only use 3 car sets. The original order of 36 units was specified to allow 6tph operation on the route (16 diagrams) with double sets all day (so 32 units needed out of 36). The coaches in both the 5 and 3 car units are the same length, so a pair of 3 cars has a higher capacity than 5 cars. Also platform lengths are based around 6 cars, so it makes sense to maximise length to fit.
Subsequently the plan was changed so more 3 car sets were built to be used on other local services around Birmingham. I'm guessing that prior to this change, the idea was that the 5 cars would displace most of the class 350s on services out of Euston, and these class 350s would then be redeployed around Birmingham; now, there are fewer 5 cars so more class 350s are remaining out of Euston, with the additional 3 car class 730s filling the gap around Birmingham.

(Ignoring the temporary use of pairs of 3 cars on peak time services out of Euston)
 

Peter Mugridge

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Yesterday ( 8th December ) at around 14.30, I saw 730 204 behind a 37 in the loop at Melton Mowbray; the 37 was facing west.

If that helps anyone?
 

185

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The original order of 36 units was specified to allow 6tph operation on the route (16 diagrams) with double sets all day (so 32 units needed out of 36).
Think you are right, looking at the press releases from some time ago, but I could have sworn the operator was telling people about 5-car sets for cross-city at one point, wouldn't be surprised if the people contracted to do their press releases also got confused.
 

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