Class 810 for East Midlands Railway Construction/Introduction Updates

[liamf656]

thanks - useful reminder. Can you recall how many seats were on an EMR HST by any chance (before they started shortening them in the final period)?

I can't remember the direct answer, but also remember the 360s helped replace the HSTs through cascade so if we compare the capacity of 222/HST vs 810/360 we have to include all fleets (not saying that's why you're asking but others may not understand fully)

 

[AlterEgo]

I think they should have just ordered enough to run the vast majority as tens.

Maybe, but that's precious wasted space with two extra cab cars in the middle of the consist (the vehicles already needed to be shorter to cram into St Pancras). In the UK units are rarely strengthened according to sudden demand so I think he we need to assess whether buying so *many* 5 car units serves any purpose other than satisfying the bean counters.

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In standard class there are still more seats in an 810 than that of a 7 car 222.

That isn't correct. Given the 7 cars have a declassified first class vehicle, a 7 car 222 has more standard seats.

 

[YorksLad12]

RTT is showing slightly extended dwell times at Long Eaton, Loughborough and Leicester, losing a total of about 6 minutes. I wonder what the reason is? Staff being extra careful about the dispatch and door operation process due to lack of familiarity?

To let passengers off to use the station toilets?!

But more seriously…phew. Glad to see (read about) one finally running in passenger service. Just in time for a C6 overhaul ‍

 

[dosxuk]

It's not that long ago that this service would have been a 8 car HST set, with even more seats

 

[43074]

That isn't correct. Given the 7 cars have a declassified first class vehicle, a 7 car 222 has more standard seats.

No they don't, there is no declassified First on the 7-cars. Some of the 5-car sets do where they were reformed from 4 or 7 car sets but an 810 has around 10 more standard seats than a 7 car 222.

 

[liamf656]

That isn't correct. Given the 7 cars have a declassified first class vehicle, a 7 car 222 has more standard seats.

None of the 7 car 222s have declassified areas unless decided by traincrew

You're thinking of the reformed sets (222005/6 and 103/104) which do have declassified areas to match the capacity of a regular 5 car

Edit: beaten to it!!

 

[AlterEgo]

No they don't, there is no declassified First on the 7-cars. Some of the 5-car sets do where they were reformed from 4 or 7 car sets but an 810 has around 10 more standard seats than a 7 car 222.

Whoops, you are right. I stand corrected!

 

[Spartacus]

Although the diagram it's on today is replacing a 7 car set.

Aren't there more standard seats on a 5 car 820 than a 7 car 222?

 

[fat_boy_pete]

Social media post with photos of today's first run

Today's Railways UK (@todaysrailwaysuk.bsky.social)

Great to be on the first East Midlands Railway “Aurora” to enter passenger service this morning - 810010 working the 07.00 Sheffield-St Pancras as its first train. More on the 810s in the next TR UK

bsky.app

 

[Spartacus]

I think they should have just ordered enough to run the vast majority as tens.

Then you'd have to reduce the service as you wouldn't be able to double up at St Pancras any more.

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It's almost like 5 car trains are not suitable for Intercity trains travelling into our capital city. Who'd have thought it?

It's the relatively short platforms, and there only being a pathetic 4 of them, at St Pancras that's the problem. Build more and they can run longer trains, as they are they need to double up.

 

[43102EMR]

That isn't correct. Given the 7 cars have a declassified first class vehicle, a 7 car 222 has more standard seats.

The 7 car 222s don’t have a declassified first class vehicle. All 3 are active first class

 

[NSEWonderer]

Social media post with photos of today's first run

Today's Railways UK (@todaysrailwaysuk.bsky.social)

Great to be on the first East Midlands Railway “Aurora” to enter passenger service this morning - 810010 working the 07.00 Sheffield-St Pancras as its first train. More on the 810s in the next TR UK

bsky.app

Didn't expect them to run this early, the special engineer for the toilet must have worked some magic on that unit.

 

[43102EMR]

It's almost like 5 car trains are not suitable for Intercity trains travelling into our capital city. Who'd have thought it?

They should have at least ordered more to allow most services to be 10 car. Or at least a like-for-like replacement with the 7 car 222s for some of the sets, it’s clearly obvious 33 5 car sets were not enough. Weren’t EMR even planning on retaining the 180s at one stage as they admitted the amount of 810s ordered was insufficient?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Dec 2025 ==

Then you'd have to reduce the service as you wouldn't be able to double up at St Pancras any more.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Dec 2025 ==



It's the relatively short platforms, and there only being a pathetic 4 of them, at St Pancras that's the problem. Build more and they can run longer trains, as they are they need to double up.

Even then, the 810s stepped away from the base 80X design in part to accommodate the shorter STP platforms to allow 10 car trains to fit.

 

[Trainman40083]

Then you'd have to reduce the service as you wouldn't be able to double up at St Pancras any more.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Dec 2025 ==



It's the relatively short platforms, and there only being a pathetic 4 of them, at St Pancras that's the problem. Build more and they can run longer trains, as they are they need to double up.

And one platform almost exclusively used by the 360s on the Corby. Then we have the times when Thameslink has to use the main station... And the days when both the Sheffield and the Nottingham trains have to use the same platform.

 

[WesternLancer]

For completeness here are EMT 222 and HST seats:

810/5: 54 first, 247 standard
810/10: 108 first, 494 standard

HST 2+8: 109 first, 359 standard
HST 2+6: 65 first, 252 standard
222/10: 100 first, 380 standard
222/9: 83 first, 338 standard
222/7: 106 first, 236 standard
222/5: 50 first, 190 standard
222/4: 33 first, 148 standard

many thanks!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Dec 2025 ==

I can't remember the direct answer, but also remember the 360s helped replace the HSTs through cascade so if we compare the capacity of 222/HST vs 810/360 we have to include all fleets (not saying that's why you're asking but others may not understand fully)

fair point too

 

[InTheEastMids]

I can't remember the direct answer, but also remember the 360s helped replace the HSTs through cascade so if we compare the capacity of 222/HST vs 810/360 we have to include all fleets (not saying that's why you're asking but others may not understand fully)

And even doing that neglects fleet utilisation, which I recall posts here saying was pretty poor when the fleet was more diverse. Didn't a number of the HST fleet sit at Cricklewood all day. And wasn't there also a very long turnaround at Nottingham that effectively soaked up one diagram?

Probably best to look at peak-time seats into/out of the 4 key destinations to get a good feel about what's changed.

 

[Spartacus]

And one platform almost exclusively used by the 360s on the Corby. Then we have the times when Thameslink has to use the main station... And the days when both the Sheffield and the Nottingham trains have to use the same platform.

Tell me about it. The rebuild of St Pancras is a great example of how not to do it, at least if you don't want to hobble the entire service forever more.

 

[ChrisC]

They’ve got far more capacity than most Meridians and it’s also a first run in service, so it’ll be full to the brim with enthusiasts and railway press.

They do have far more capacity than the trains they are replacing and I agree about today’s train being full of enthusiasts and railway press. However, many of the journeys currently being operated by the 5 carriage 222’s are full and standing and some, especially at weekends, are absolutely rammed. The extra seating capacity on these busy trains will allow some of the standing passengers to sit down but I’m not sure that a 5 carriage 810 will be enough.

 

[liamf656]

And even doing that neglects fleet utilisation, which I recall posts here saying was pretty poor when the fleet was more diverse. Didn't a number of the HST fleet sit at Cricklewood all day. And wasn't there also a very long turnaround at Nottingham that effectively soaked up one diagram?

Yes that was pretty much the case for both of those points

 

[Trainman40083]

Tell me about it. The rebuild of St Pancras is a great example of how not to do it, at least if you don't want to hobble the entire service forever more.

Maybe the plan was for HS2 to take some of the load. Now they seem to talk of enhanced Euro services, so fat chance of more EMR services unless you build out over the road or go deep underneath.

 

[norbitonflyer]

On board the 1132 now. Still got that new train smell.

 

[720144]

On board the 1132 now. Still got that new train smell.

Departed 2 minutes late due to arriving late from cricklewood.

 

[XCTurbostar]

Has anyone tried getting locked in the bog yet?

 

[duffield]

Toilet related question: On the 222's the non-accessible toilets have manual sliding doors with manual locks. Is that the same on the 810s?
Also, a question for anyone who's covered the Leicester to Market Harborough section today, what's the noise difference like when the diesels start/stop?

 

[720144]

Has arrived 1 minute late into Leicester. Departed 2 mins late.

 

[Killingworth]

EMR's video just sent to Stakeholders;

 

[eastwestdivide]

Has arrived 1 minute late into Leicester. Departed 2 mins late.

Then it was catching up a late-running container train by Syston, so another few mins lost, but otherwise pretty much keeping up with the timings to Derby.

 

[Trainman40083]

Has anyone tried getting locked in the bog yet?

Maybe we need to be briefed on the operation.

 

[liamf656]

Just a heads up for those wanting a ride on the 810, EMR services may get busy as LNER tickets are now being accepted due to a fatality

 

[Banham7]

Just a heads up for those wanting a ride on the 810, EMR services may get busy as LNER tickets are now being accepted due to a fatality

Will be interesting to see how it will cope with ECML pax as well on the 17.05 to Nottingham if the incident isn't resolved by then.