Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway: progress updates

[Siemens Staines]

It is that one.

Thank you

 

[Andy1673]

It is that one, which seems to be 455 more often than not anyway.

thank you

 

[Goldfish62]

SWR don't look to be in a position to make changes yet. Introducing additional services requires more crew when there are already plenty of crew availability related cancellations. The current operating model makes time savings on 701s at peak time disappear far more than any ADBO saving. As more 701s get introduced capacity can be increased at peak times across the network at relatively low cost.

Doing relatively minor stuff such as restoring the half hourly evening service through to Reading doesn't require a complete timetable rewrite or a huge increase in resources. Neither does adjusting the times of AM Peak Up Weybridge services to restore connections to the Hounslow loop from Reading. Odd that SWR can add in extra minutes to Reading services as they did mid-timetable in February last year, but can't make minor adjustments that have an actual positive benefit for passengers.

That we've had to wait five years for the 701s then SWR are continuing to use them as an excuse to not even make minor timetable changes just shows how woefully the company has been managed over the past few years, and, outwardly at least, continues to be so (that's a pop at the top of the organisation, not anyone below).

Rant over.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Doing relatively minor stuff such as restoring the half hourly evening service through to Reading doesn't require a complete timetable rewrite or a huge increase in resources. Neither does adjusting the times of AM Peak Up Weybridge services to restore connections to the Hounslow loop from Reading.

Resurrecting the Houslow Loop service would be a favourite, to restore the 4tph service at Chiswick, Mortlake etc

 

[swr444]

Resurrecting the Houslow Loop service would be a favourite, to restore the 4tph service at Chiswick, Mortlake etc

Hopefully, they have abandoned their plans of terminating the 2V at Twickenham, which would have meant that Mortlake, N Sheen and St Margarets would have stayed at 2tph

 

[norbitonflyer]

Doing relatively minor stuff such as restoring the half hourly evening service through to Reading doesn't require a complete timetable rewrite or a huge increase in resources.

Rant over.

Restoring the service through Mortlake to 4tph by extending the Hounslow loop services back to Waterloo

 

[Big Jumby 74]

Back when there was actually some ambition to improve frequency and infrastructure…

These days it’s as if they want everything to stay the same.

There were some very good people and ideas being worked on, yes, but equally at that time Waterloo throat was already at capacity in the peaks, irrespective of how many more services could be squeezed in to the plan (on paper) further back down the line, be that via ABDO and consequential tightening up of head ways or any other means. Movements through Waterloo throat have/will always dictate the overall level of service possible in the wider context.
It is now generally accepted by many (even within the industry from what I am hearing) that the FG/MTR original bid was over ambitious, and in practice very likely unworkable on the ground. I accept some will disagree with that, so we will just have to see how things pan out over the next couple of years?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Nov 2025 ==

That we've had to wait five years for the 701s then SWR are continuing to use them as an excuse to not even make minor timetable changes just shows how woefully the company has been managed over the past few years, and, outwardly at least, continues to be so (that's a pop at the top of the organisation, not anyone below).

I can confirm Bigfoot's comments in post #15,595 about new TT, and can also say that in many ways it will involve a back to basics re write with a firm base, but no small task none the less. As such any temporary tinkering in the short term would very likely take the planning team involved away from their core objective in this regard, as much as I appreciate people aren't happy with some aspects of the TT as it is today.
Bare in mind the recent changes at 'the top', before 'one' pop's away too much. A TT change as is being proposed and worked on won't happen in five minutes.

I for one, have confidence in what is being proposed, just so long as those pesky politicians leave the professional railway people to get on with the job.

 

[pompeyfan]

There were some very good people and ideas being worked on, yes, but equally at that time Waterloo throat was already at capacity in the peaks, irrespective of how many more services could be squeezed in to the plan (on paper) further back down the line, be that via ABDO and consequential tightening up of head ways or any other means. Movements through Waterloo throat have/will always dictate the overall level of service possible in the wider context.
It is now generally accepted by many (even within the industry from what I am hearing) that the FG/MTR original bid was over ambitious, and in practice very likely unworkable on the ground. I accept some will disagree with that, so we will just have to see how things pan out over the next couple of years?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Nov 2025 ==


I can confirm Bigfoot's comments in post #15,595 about new TT, and can also say that in many ways it will involve a back to basics re write with a firm base, but no small task none the less. As such any temporary tinkering in the short term would very likely take the planning team involved away from their core objective in this regard, as much as I appreciate people aren't happy with some aspects of the TT as it is today.
Bare in mind the recent changes at 'the top', before 'one' pop's away too much. A TT change as is being proposed and worked on won't happen in five minutes.

I for one, have confidence in what is being proposed, just so long as those pesky politicians leave the professional railway people to get on with the job.

Can anyone advise whether there a thread regarding the SWR T/T change (which I believe is June 2027) and if not, whether it would be best placed in the speculative sub thread?

 

[FRSZMZ56]

Does anyone know which 701 unit number has been given the "Phoenix" name?

 

[Peter Sarf]

The number of not in passenger service 701/0s at the London end has been relatively consistent. There's 3 at Farnham, unallocated shuffles make it hard to say which ones are there currently. That leaves 12 between Clapham and Wimbledon broadly similar to before, 4 have joined the in service pool this month roughly offsetting the arrivals.

Some have an operational use e.g. 701028 for PTI testing and there might be others. There's a few on the SWR network since at least this summer without seeing service including 701004, 701015, 701024 and 701054. The next 701s to arrive have a good chance of jumping most of those into service in my opinion.

I have been wondering if the 701s coming out of Marchwood are more ready than those stored further afield. What you say about some newer arrivals jumping the queue reminds me of that.

Three out of four paths were published for a Marchwood to Wimbledon drag for Tuesday this week. Unclear what happened to the Marchwood to Wimbledon schedule to complete the set that didn't appear for whatever reason (light loco Leicester LIP to Eastleigh Yard, Eastleigh Yard to Marchwood and Wimbledon to Leicester LIP were published).

Thanks, I thought it was just me !. It was those paths facilitating the move that failed to materialise which have been driving my curiosity this week !.

SWR don't look to be in a position to make changes yet. Introducing additional services requires more crew when there are already plenty of crew availability related cancellations. The current operating model makes time savings on 701s at peak time disappear far more than any ADBO saving. As more 701s get introduced capacity can be increased at peak times across the network at relatively low cost.

I agree crew availability must be tight while crew are being diverted to training.

Doing relatively minor stuff such as restoring the half hourly evening service through to Reading doesn't require a complete timetable rewrite or a huge increase in resources. Neither does adjusting the times of AM Peak Up Weybridge services to restore connections to the Hounslow loop from Reading. Odd that SWR can add in extra minutes to Reading services as they did mid-timetable in February last year, but can't make minor adjustments that have an actual positive benefit for passengers.

That we've had to wait five years for the 701s then SWR are continuing to use them as an excuse to not even make minor timetable changes just shows how woefully the company has been managed over the past few years, and, outwardly at least, continues to be so (that's a pop at the top of the organisation, not anyone below).

Rant over.

+

Resurrecting the Houslow Loop service would be a favourite, to restore the 4tph service at Chiswick, Mortlake etc

+

Restoring the service through Mortlake to 4tph by extending the Hounslow loop services back to Waterloo

Extra services, although obvious improvements, will require drivers etc that are hopefully currently tied up with driver training on the 701s.

As @Big Jumby 74 says, the finite limit will be at the Waterloo end. So the sooner all these 10car units are in service the better.
(and the pairs of 5car units).

 

[bb21]

It is now generally accepted by many (even within the industry from what I am hearing) that the FG/MTR original bid was over ambitious, and in practice very likely unworkable on the ground. I accept some will disagree with that, so we will just have to see how things pan out over the next couple of years?

This was a proven fact, but only in hindsight, and has been the case since latter Stagecoach days. There were a couple of trains, most notoriously 2/9G90 and 2/9G92 which would completely break the mornig peak on a regular basis, and when 1 or 2 trains were cancelled especially on the fast lines, the morning peak PPM improved dramatically on those days where no other factors were in play.

 

[Nimbus020]

thank you

Yes, 5M03 tended to be a 455 on most Mondays anyway. A mixed bag this week: Mon = 455, Tue = 701, Wed = 701, Thur = 455, Fri (today) = 701

 

[Juniper Driver]

Does anyone know which 701 unit number has been given the "Phoenix" name?

Class 701/0 No. 021 is the South Western Railway (SWR) Arterio electric multiple unit nicknamed "Phoenix." This ten-car train (unit number 701021) was recently named in a nod to its "rebirth" after overcoming significant production and testing delays that sidelined the fleet for years. As of November 28, 2025, it's among the approximately 20 units now in regular passenger service on suburban routes from London Waterloo, including to Windsor & Eton Riverside, Shepperton, and Reading. The naming was spotted and shared by rail enthusiasts on social media, highlighting its symbolic return to operation after the class's troubled rollout.

Found this....Although I think there are more than 20 units out there.

 

[nctd2306]

Class 701/0 No. 021 is the South Western Railway (SWR) Arterio electric multiple unit nicknamed "Phoenix." This ten-car train (unit number 701021) was recently named in a nod to its "rebirth" after overcoming significant production and testing delays that sidelined the fleet for years. As of November 28, 2025, it's among the approximately 20 units now in regular passenger service on suburban routes from London Waterloo, including to Windsor & Eton Riverside, Shepperton, and Reading. The naming was spotted and shared by rail enthusiasts on social media, highlighting its symbolic return to operation after the class's troubled rollout.

Found this....Although I think there are more than 20 units out there.

I think the Phoenix name is more to do with Aldershot football club based on the online video that's been posted...
Their badge features a phoenix and the club were recently successful the FA trophy final.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

when 1 or 2 trains were cancelled especially on the fast lines, the morning peak PPM improved dramatically on those days where no other factors were in play.

No disrespect meant at all to your good self, but the point you mention re-inforces my point about the overall SW TT, in that the throat at Waterloo in the timetabling sense was, and still is the driving force in timetable capacity at Waterloo.

 

[Peter Sarf]

No disrespect meant at all to your good self, but the point you mention re-inforces my point about the overall SW TT, in that the throat at Waterloo in the timetabling sense was, and still is the driving force in timetable capacity at Waterloo.

Hence the need for a hole for the 701s to go down.
(called Crossrail Two)

So until then all that can be done is running all trains as the longest possible - hence the 10car 701s of course.
I wonder how much cheaper than making Waterloo bigger the costs of replacing all 5car stabling/depot capacity by 10car capacity is ?.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Restoring the service through Mortlake to 4tph by extending the Hounslow loop services back to Waterloo

Particularly an issue as the railway is now the only link across the Thames between Putney and Chiswick Bridges. Hammersmith Bridge has been closed for six years now and shows no signs of being reoPened any time soon.

 

[Flange Squeal]

The number of not in passenger service 701/0s at the London end has been relatively consistent. There's 3 at Farnham, unallocated shuffles make it hard to say which ones are there currently.

Currently five in the sidings there - 004, 011, 040, 043, 052

 

[wickham]

Beleive 701043 is the "in service" one stabled at Farnham for the diagram on Monday ?? (The other 4 are inbdeed "pre-service" units).

 

[norbitonflyer]

Beleive 701043 is the "in service" one stabled at Farnham for the diagram on Monday ?? (The other 4 are inbdeed "pre-service" units).

043 has been in service for nearly two years now, and was still in service as recently as yesterday

 

[Big Jumby 74]

I wonder how much cheaper than making Waterloo bigger the costs of replacing all 5car stabling/depot capacity by 10car capacity is ?

The major problem is that there is little if any space left at all locations for any further siding extensions in the suburban area. Every suburban depot was looked in to for the original SWT 10 car plan, and siding extensions and remodelling of track layouts was undertaken where ever possible to accommodate the 10 car 455+456, 458 and 707 formations.

 

[DMckduck]

043 has been in service for nearly two years now, and was still in service as recently as yesterday

One of a very few in the soft launch rotation too.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Nov 2025 ==

The major problem is that there is little if any space left at all locations for any further siding extensions in the suburban area. Every suburban depot was looked in to for the original SWT 10 car plan, and siding extensions and remodelling of track layouts was undertaken where ever possible to accommodate the 10 car 455+456, 458 and 707 formations.

There is still remit for ten extra 10 car roads at Feltham, it will take time of course but certainly doable.

Wouldnt be surprised to see it ramp up with the future timetable rewrite.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

There is still remit for ten extra 10 car roads at Feltham, it will take time of course but certainly doable.

I did see mention of that up thread somewhere, but hadn't heard anything about same from any other source. The main headache in this, will be enough 10 car sidings in the correct places to start (and finish) the service every day, whilst keeping associated empty moves, for which there may not be pathways, to a minimum.

To demonstrate by example: during the SWT suburban 10 car roll out (similar to what is going on today with 701s) there came a point that one of the weekday passenger service starts from Staines, could no longer be resourced from Staines/Strawberry Hill etc, due to insufficient stabling space in that area, at that point in the roll out, and so an empty move was planned from Wimbledon depot to Staines via Weybridge and Chertsey. Not a move that was planned lightly, given it was in the early part of the morning peak (think Up Main fast services passing Weybridge at that time of day). This also necessitated the removal of a-another west bound departure from Wimbledon depot to elsewhere to free up a pathway out of the depot.

The option of running from eg Clapham Yard DOWN to Staines via the Windsor lines in this instant was unworkable, due to lack of pathways both exiting Clapham Yard and at Staines where a shunt from Down to Up would have been required, so I hope that explains some of the complexities that can lead to many a planner pulling their hair out

If I were a betting man, Westbound departures formed of 10 car 701's from Wimbledon depot (ie; in sufficient quantity to provide service) will, as things stand, prove to be the most challenging aspect for 701 stabling going forward.

 

[Juniper Driver]

I think the Phoenix name is more to do with Aldershot football club based on the online video that's been posted...
Their badge features a phoenix and the club were recently successful the FA trophy final.

Thanks...Looks like you are correct...At least I know now.
I do remember them playing at Aldershot when I signed Alton between 1990 and 1994.

 

[norbitonflyer]

[701043] One of a very few in the soft launch rotation too.

It was the last of the first three to enter service, in January 2024. Another two entered service in February and March (one of them being 701028, which only ever ran three times in passenger service) and another two in the autumn.

 

[markle]

deleted

 

[Ian Hardy]

It is farcical how low the commitment to service on that branch is - for example today there is a 1tph service

This is because of engineering work through Wimbledon today and services being diverted via the Windsor lines and Chertsey. Probably because nobody uses - well pays to travel on the loop services as there are no gated stations so people don't tap in and out. The services might be busy but not according to the income from those stations.

 

[tfw756rider]

701/5s won't be seen until at least the middle of next year in passenger service.

A 2026 subclass entry-to-service for 701/5, wow...

 

[Goldfish62]

This is because of engineering work through Wimbledon today and services being diverted via the Windsor lines and Chertsey. Probably because nobody uses - well pays to travel on the loop services as there are no gated stations so people don't tap in and out. The services might be busy but not according to the income from those stations.

Well they're not going to use it if the service is so poor!

Jesus, the bus industry might be far from perfect but it learned this basic stuff decades ago!

 

[NSEWonderer]

Probably be mid July area to see any 701/5 movement, more so as the 458/4s become the next target of displacement in 2026.