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Elizabeth Line vs Overground as a driver?
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notadriver
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Elizabeth line.
What would you say your reasons are?
djsharff28
New Member
depends where you would be based (what depot) I think as different depots will do different things, especially the overground.
Jimbo12345
Member
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Closest depot to your home
djsharff28
New Member
I know, but it depends what you want from it, money? I think the Elizabeth line pays more through and after training, but if you want it for the stock both run the 710s depending on the depot for the overground. The thrill of driving you may get more at the Elizabeth line as it is less stop start than the Overground, especially around the Stratford-Highbury and Islington-Surrey Quays area. It's just up to what you want out of it
20atthemagnet
Member
I worked at one of these and know several people who work with the other.. I’ve also been at a non Metro TOC..
They are very different entities in how they are run, managed, the ultimately it will depend on what location you go to not necessarily just which company. For example, somebody working at New Cross will not feel the same about the job as somebody working in Watford or Chingford. Somebody working at Gidea Park will not feel the same as somebody working at Old Oak Common.
Paywise they about the same. T&Cs.. overground. Work intensity and routes, definitely not Overground… (depending on location some depots are very laid-back) The atmosphere generally at Overground is pretty chilled out. The atmosphere at the Elizabeth line, not so much. Both places you will be chasing your tail most of the day, very small turnarounds and basically no slack for late running unless you manage to get to one of the golden outlying depots ie Watford, Shenfield, Chingford etc. They are intensive operations and the waiting list to get out of the core locations can span years. There is a good reason why places like New Cross are advertised every other month. Nobody wants to stay there! The upside is that you will be paid alongside the top in the country and have quite a lot of perks like a free oyster, priv, FIP, salary sacrifice vehicle is on the way too.
So depending on what you find important about work generally, each will have its benefits. Both surprisingly are starting to have a few people leave/relocate further out of London that just want to chill out a bit more and don’t mind drop pay going elsewhere which was never the case before. But if overall money is your main concern them both are still top places to work.
They are very different entities in how they are run, managed, the ultimately it will depend on what location you go to not necessarily just which company. For example, somebody working at New Cross will not feel the same about the job as somebody working in Watford or Chingford. Somebody working at Gidea Park will not feel the same as somebody working at Old Oak Common.
Paywise they about the same. T&Cs.. overground. Work intensity and routes, definitely not Overground… (depending on location some depots are very laid-back) The atmosphere generally at Overground is pretty chilled out. The atmosphere at the Elizabeth line, not so much. Both places you will be chasing your tail most of the day, very small turnarounds and basically no slack for late running unless you manage to get to one of the golden outlying depots ie Watford, Shenfield, Chingford etc. They are intensive operations and the waiting list to get out of the core locations can span years. There is a good reason why places like New Cross are advertised every other month. Nobody wants to stay there! The upside is that you will be paid alongside the top in the country and have quite a lot of perks like a free oyster, priv, FIP, salary sacrifice vehicle is on the way too.
So depending on what you find important about work generally, each will have its benefits. Both surprisingly are starting to have a few people leave/relocate further out of London that just want to chill out a bit more and don’t mind drop pay going elsewhere which was never the case before. But if overall money is your main concern them both are still top places to work.
whoosh
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- 1,884
Overground pays more - well, basic pay, I think Elizabeth Line gets better pay for overtime.
Elizabeth Line has a lot of ATO (Abbey Wood/Whitechapel to Paddington)so I think less of a thrill.
I've seen diagrams for both, and Elizabeth Line looks a lot less intense than Overground, as well as having less really early starts and very late finishes - you have to go quite some way through the diagrams until you reach a post 05:00 book on for New Cross Gate!
Get Chingford depot* though and you're laughing!
*After a huge waiting list, no doubt!
Elizabeth Line has a lot of ATO (Abbey Wood/Whitechapel to Paddington)so I think less of a thrill.
I've seen diagrams for both, and Elizabeth Line looks a lot less intense than Overground, as well as having less really early starts and very late finishes - you have to go quite some way through the diagrams until you reach a post 05:00 book on for New Cross Gate!
Get Chingford depot* though and you're laughing!
*After a huge waiting list, no doubt!
20atthemagnet
Member
djsharff28
New Member
There are quite a few early starts at NXG.
Turnarounds are roughly 15 at either end on the line from Wat Jn - EUS.
Having googled the salaries they are similar abut the Elizabeth line just pips it with around 1k more
there can be some long turns for the Overground as well. Unsure of Elizabeth line though
Turnarounds are roughly 15 at either end on the line from Wat Jn - EUS.
Having googled the salaries they are similar abut the Elizabeth line just pips it with around 1k more
there can be some long turns for the Overground as well. Unsure of Elizabeth line though
Just over 78K
Elizabeth line
£78,301
RDW and Overtime paid at 1.5
RDW paid at min of 8.30
You can work RD's and take it as leave, Max 5 per year and that will last a year from the date you worked.
Boxing day - triple time
NY Day - double time on am turns - 2.25 on PM turns that finish before 22:59 - 2.75 for turn that fin after 23:00
RD on Xmas day - Lieu day or a extra of 8hr pay
10 Adhoc days
1 extra day per 1/4 if don't go sick (there are other conditions - you won't get it, I'm sure if medically restricted) . If you don't take the days (Max of 4 if you've been really good) Thats paid in January. I think they are paid at 8hrs per day.
21 sunday per year max which is capped
2 hours max for movements off spare
Full pay for 1 year if your redeployed then just over 59K there after if you can't return to driving, unless you go into another role which pays a higher wage.
OOC cover the full route as with Abbey Wood, and Plumstead.
Maidenhead don't cover the East.
East depots only go as far as Heathrow on the West.
Jobs range from 4am -ish to 1am -ish
4am jobs are low hours normally around 6 hours.
Nights at OOC and Gidea only.
East depots have long waiting lists as with Maidenhead. Anyone thinking of transfering, it would take years as most drivers are young.
You get an Oyster for you and your spouse
75% off National Rail and spouse
International travel after a year
I think, but not 100% you keep your Oyster after 25 years service.
Hope that helps
£78,301
RDW and Overtime paid at 1.5
RDW paid at min of 8.30
You can work RD's and take it as leave, Max 5 per year and that will last a year from the date you worked.
Boxing day - triple time
NY Day - double time on am turns - 2.25 on PM turns that finish before 22:59 - 2.75 for turn that fin after 23:00
RD on Xmas day - Lieu day or a extra of 8hr pay
10 Adhoc days
1 extra day per 1/4 if don't go sick (there are other conditions - you won't get it, I'm sure if medically restricted) . If you don't take the days (Max of 4 if you've been really good) Thats paid in January. I think they are paid at 8hrs per day.
21 sunday per year max which is capped
2 hours max for movements off spare
Full pay for 1 year if your redeployed then just over 59K there after if you can't return to driving, unless you go into another role which pays a higher wage.
OOC cover the full route as with Abbey Wood, and Plumstead.
Maidenhead don't cover the East.
East depots only go as far as Heathrow on the West.
Jobs range from 4am -ish to 1am -ish
4am jobs are low hours normally around 6 hours.
Nights at OOC and Gidea only.
East depots have long waiting lists as with Maidenhead. Anyone thinking of transfering, it would take years as most drivers are young.
You get an Oyster for you and your spouse
75% off National Rail and spouse
International travel after a year
I think, but not 100% you keep your Oyster after 25 years service.
Hope that helps
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Mattplans
Member
It surprises me that all depots don't sign the entire line. Why is this?
iphone76
Member
For us in the East, we were told that there were not enough jobs going out to Maidenhead or Reading. Quite a few East drivers did learn the route, but it was abruptly stopped a few years ago.
We were told that Maidenhead drivers were going to learn out to Stratford and Liverpool Street high level to cover for diversions. I am not sure if that did happen.
Personally I enjoy working on the EL (East). As mentioned above - some good conditions, especially if you want time off and can get your job covered with RDW - which you mainly can. Also interesting working with TPWS, CBTC and ETCS - never a dull moment - and now new trains and Old Oak Station coming along in the next few years. I'd also say that management are also very supportive and approachable which makes a big difference.
We were told that Maidenhead drivers were going to learn out to Stratford and Liverpool Street high level to cover for diversions. I am not sure if that did happen.
Personally I enjoy working on the EL (East). As mentioned above - some good conditions, especially if you want time off and can get your job covered with RDW - which you mainly can. Also interesting working with TPWS, CBTC and ETCS - never a dull moment - and now new trains and Old Oak Station coming along in the next few years. I'd also say that management are also very supportive and approachable which makes a big difference.
That came in just a year or so ago. So if you’re in a good state of Health!!!! you could get an extra 4 days over the year. If you didn’t choose to use the days every 1/4 it gets banked, so you will get an extra £1400 in January if your entitled to 4, and if you do loads of OT, you also get your Holiday pay that month.
You have to use the extra day in the next 1/4
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There are no direct trains from Shenfield is one.
If you have an East driver that had Reading diagrams they would have to relive somewhere. Though you can change at Padd, it’s not ideal, as if the service goes down, drivers will be at wrong locations.
East drivers would have to start at Abbey Wood for Reading work, this means passing so not productive in the company’s eyes. Productive in the drivers eyes…lol
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Mattplans
Member
Would it not allow for better flexibility if they could sign those services regardless though? If due to lack of train crew etc? I understand this isn't really a problem at the moment
What are the current changeover points? Is that only done at the termini?
Fair enough - thanks !
It's not productive for East drivers to drive to Reading. The only case would be if GTSR had direct trains from Sheffield, which is not happening as no more paths are available on the West.
Drivers relieve at Padd low level but its rare or if you're driving on the East, that will be Gidea Park and Shenfield, or Abbey Wood and Maidenhead.
Maidenhead does know as far as Stratford I believe, primarily because it is all within CBTC.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
It doesn't really manifest in any problems as there are enough drivers that do from the natural directions of the routes (Abbey Wood / Plumstead / OOC). Can't see a time where it would.
Mostly termini but some at Paddington, Gidea Park and Maidenhead (sometimes as a terminus).
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Do you know how long the waiting lists are to move to maidenhead?
How many years would you roughly say it would take to transfer to a maidenhead?
Looking at the OOC transfer list, there are loads waiting to move to Maidenhead. Problem is, GTSR is quite a young company for drivers, so unless there is a massive exit from Maidenhead you have no chance in getting there.
NSEWonderer
Established Member
What was interesting was when Maidenhead first opened, no one wanted to go there, what made the difference was that they ended up not signing the East past stratford. Workload as a result is a lot better managed at Maiden vs OOC. Ilford which they no longer are taking anyone know the waiting list (much less will a trainee driver role ever come out for that depot) as it was quite extensively long, person number 1 on the list i believe has waited Donkey years for a move.
Damn, thanks for the heads up, I'm joining as a trainee and thought this would be a 5 year maximum wait for some reason, boy was I wrong. I'm assuming to transfer to any depot out of OOC will take over 5 years then minimum.
I'm assuming with maidenhead and OOC, there will be no new west depots opening up anytime soon right?
The Elizabeth line is effectively “finished” and a stable product for the foreseeable future. So no new depots, probably just expansion on those two as required for any service enhancements.
astronautjaye
Member
Hope someone doesn't mind me replying here...
The waiting lists are huge for all depots other than Old Oak, Plumstead and Abbey Wood. This is because these 3 depots sign the whole line - not something everyone is interested in. When I last looked at Abbey Wood (the other day), the depots with the largest waiting list were Shenfield, Gidea Park, and Ilford + Maidenhead. Mainly because drivers are also from those areas but maybe got unlucky with a depot that signs the whole line.
Ah I see, thanks for the breakdown I guess it’s hard to estimate but from previous comments I assume it’s probably a 10 year plus waiting list. I guess that being these zones are also away from central London (mainly Maidenhead and shenfield) make them more desirable. Which depot out of those do you reckon will be a shortest wait?Hope someone doesn't mind me replying here...
The waiting lists are huge for all depots other than Old Oak, Plumstead and Abbey Wood. This is because these 3 depots sign the whole line - not something everyone is interested in. When I last looked at Abbey Wood (the other day), the depots with the largest waiting list were Shenfield, Gidea Park, and Ilford + Maidenhead. Mainly because drivers are also from those areas but maybe got unlucky with a depot that signs the whole line.
Hope someone doesn't mind me replying here...
The waiting lists are huge for all depots other than Old Oak, Plumstead and Abbey Wood. This is because these 3 depots sign the whole line - not something everyone is interested in. When I last looked at Abbey Wood (the other day), the depots with the largest waiting list were Shenfield, Gidea Park, and Ilford + Maidenhead. Mainly because drivers are also from those areas but maybe got unlucky with a depot that signs the whole line.
I think a major part of it is also commute time and location and stability. A lot of Eastern depot drivers probably live around Essex and Maidenhead drivers further out in Berkshire. Probably work comes into a little and not having such long trips to Reading / Maidenhead for those Eastern depots, but I doubt it's a major factor. There's lots of ex-GA and a fair few GWR drivers who TUPE'd over who are pretty stable now.
I wouldn't expect any new staff to realistically even think about moving depot within the next 5 years.
Pretty similar to overground with some differences
£80,846
Overtime paid at 8hrs min/1.0 with a £75 booking on fee on weekends
Boxing day - x4 pay or have a few options of taking back some Ad Hoc + £75 booking on fee
NY Day its the same
New cross gate depot work is a lot more intense than Chingford, Wilesden etc
3 year pay deal has come to an end, 2026 talks pending
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