Class 175s to GWR

[83G/84D]

Aside from the rumours of ex TfW class 150’s moving to the South West.

The class 175 diagrams from next month, were released this week.
Subject to the caveats of unit and crew availability there are three diagrams on weekday's from 15 December, three on Saturdays from 20 December and two on Sundays from 14 December.
Diagrams are broadly similar to those of the castle class HST’s.

There are also expected to be spare units available at Laira and others available for training.

Other diagrams are due to be added from early April 2026.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Nov 2025 ==

Aside from the rumours of ex TfW class 150’s moving to the South West.

The class 175 diagrams from next month, were released this week.
Subject to the caveats of unit and crew availability there are three diagrams on weekday's from 15 December, three on Saturdays from 20 December and two on Sundays from 14 December.

Other diagrams are due to be added from early April 2026.

For those not aware, engineering work is scheduled on the Exeter - Barnstaple/Oakhampton route Sat 21 to Sun 29 March (although after last weeks flood closure causing lot of local displeasure that might not go down well)

Sat 28 March is start of 2 weeks school Easter school holidays, which is when lot of South West tourist items (and trains) get busier again.

So not totally clear why GWR are waiting until early April to add more 175s

Lack of qualified train crew is the reason.

 

[Express380]

Aside from the rumours of ex TfW class 150’s moving to the South West.

The class 175 diagrams from next month, were released this week.
Subject to the caveats of unit and crew availability there are three diagrams on weekday's from 15 December, three on Saturdays from 20 December and two on Sundays from 14 December.
Diagrams are broadly similar to those of the castle class HST’s.

There are also expected to be spare units available at Laira and others available for training.

Other diagrams are due to be added from early April 2026.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Nov 2025 ==

Aside from the rumours of ex TfW class 150’s moving to the South West.

The class 175 diagrams from next month, were released this week.
Subject to the caveats of unit and crew availability there are three diagrams on weekday's from 15 December, three on Saturdays from 20 December and two on Sundays from 14 December.

Other diagrams are due to be added from early April 2026.

Are the diagrams able to be shared please? Would be good to know what services should be ran by them.

 

[brad465]

I think the whole point of it is to prevent having to reduce the Exmouth-Paignton services from 4 to 2, so I doubt making Oke up to 4 car, which would be complete overkill with the exception of one train a day, is unlikely.

As for 175's, they do seem to be getting through the training, not as quick as they'd liked, all of the crew that I've spoken to who have completed their 175 training have all been quiet positive about them as well.

Fair enough, this was based on the notion 175s taking over Okehampton will lead to 3-car formations.

I assume these 150s will get a quick GWR sticker applied to the sides and then remain in TfW white/grey as they won't be around long.

 

[REVUpminster]

Fair enough, this was based on the notion 175s taking over Okehampton will lead to 3-car formations.

I assume these 150s will get a quick GWR sticker applied to the sides and then remain in TfW white/grey as they won't be around long.

These 150s if they come in time might be to replace the three 158 diagrams until enough 175s are available. Bristol still want them.
Can't understand what Wolverton is doing with the 175s that have been there months.

 

[Snow1964]

These 150s if they come in time might be to replace the three 158 diagrams until enough 175s are available. Bristol still want them.
Can't understand what Wolverton is doing with the 175s that have been there months.

I think Wolverton currently has 12 units, some have been there months
175 006, 011 (2x2 car)
175 101, 102, 106, 107, 108, 111, 112, 113, 115, 116 (10x3 car)

Laira now has 2 that have passed through Wolverton & 4 training sets
175 001, 003 (2x2 car with Wolverton updates)
175 002, 007, 009 (3x2 car for training)
175 114 (1x3car for training).

Still stored at Ely
175 004, 005, 010 (3x2 car)
175 103, 104, 105, 109, 110 (5x3 car)
and 175008 which is not formed as a unit

 

[grecian ern]

The 175's seem to be out each weekday on training runs. Speaking to a GWR driver yesterday, he said that it has been agreed between unions and management that every driver will get twenty hours of training and in his opinion this was excessive to say the least.

 

[GBM]

The 175's seem to be out each weekday on training runs. Speaking to a GWR driver yesterday, he said that it has been agreed between unions and management that every driver will get twenty hours of training and in his opinion this was excessive to say the least.

That's 20 more hours than their bus compatriots received for type training!

 

[507 001]

That's 20 more hours than their bus compatriots received for type training!

Hardly comparable.

 

[craigybagel]

Speaking as someone who used to sign 175s and still signs 150s and 158s, from a driver's perspective they have almost nothing in common other than being DMUs. It is not a straightforward conversion between them by any means.

 

[Class172]

I suppose the only drivers that might conceivably claim to have any form of familiarity with them would be those who formerly signed the 180s during their time with FGW, given the shared heritage of the two Alstom-built classes. But even that is clutching at straws given we're talking probably 15+ years ago and I suspect there's a good few differences between the two classes anyway.

 

[Anonymous10]

Speaking as someone who used to sign 175s and still signs 150s and 158s, from a driver's perspective they have almost nothing in common other than being DMUs. It is not a straightforward conversion between them by any means.

Is it possible as 150s arent going for scrap from tfw that gwr want them?

 

[northernbelle]

Fair enough, this was based on the notion 175s taking over Okehampton will lead to 3-car formations.

I assume these 150s will get a quick GWR sticker applied to the sides and then remain in TfW white/grey as they won't be around long.

The three car 175s on Okehampton will support the opening of Okehampton Interchange station and the anticipated growth that will result.

 

[Snow1964]

Is it possible as 150s arent going for scrap from tfw that gwr want them?

GWR passenger numbers in west are still growing, even adding the 175s (and it is only part of fleet that are extra as Castle HSTs get replaced) there could easily be a shortage of DMUs if growth continues. Remember there are extra services due for Devon metro, Portbury etc too, which need DMUs

It is looking like it will be 4 or 5 years before any Project Churchward BEMUs enter service (and that could easily slip to 6 or 7 years). So GWR could do few more DMUs after the 175. But if DfT (or GBR or whoever controls railway in next few years) allows it is different question.

 

[83G/84D]

Are the diagrams able to be shared please? Would be good to know what services should be ran by them.

I will post them on the allocations, diagrams and timetable s etc part in due course.

 

[150249]

Again, this is all very much unconfirmed rumours at the moment.

Very true, probably straying off topic too!

 

[co-tr-paul]

Possible subject for new thread......

 

[Cowley]

Possible subject for new thread......

There’s the start of a new thread on the subject here now.

Could some ex TfW 150s go to GWR?

Fair enough, this was based on the notion 175s taking over Okehampton will lead to 3-car formations. I assume these 150s will get a quick GWR sticker applied to the sides and then remain in TfW white/grey as they won't be around long. mods note - split from this thread...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Bornin1980s]

Speaking as someone who used to sign 175s and still signs 150s and 158s, from a driver's perspective they have almost nothing in common other than being DMUs. It is not a straightforward conversion between them by any means.

What are the big differences? Mechanically, they appear to be very similar, with the same makes of engine and transmission.

Also, does the fire suppressant still smell like washing up liquid (as in the 180)?

 

[fgwrich]

What are the big differences? Mechanically, they appear to be very similar, with the same makes of engine and transmission.

Also, does the fire suppressant still smell like washing up liquid (as in the 180)?

Alstom TMS for a start.

 

[DaveHarries]

Its occasional services to Falmouth, I think the Newquay will be double 150s or maybe 158..

given the fact that they are end-doored it’s odd they should be being considered for Falmouth which has more of a Metro-like churn as opposed to Newquay where the majority of the traffic will be end-to-end (and where the trains will be going to Falmouth by then anyway)

I guess that the choice of traction for the Newquay line will depend on how the trains are diagrammed. By that I mean that if all the Newquay trains only do Falmouth and return then the train types will always be the same but if train A is diagrammed to do Newquay - Falmouth, then Falmouth to Truro only and return, then Falmouth back to Newquay before that sequence repeats itself then perhaps there will be no way of guaranteeing that 175s won't turn up on the Newquay line a few timers a day so yes it would indeed make sense to clear 175s for the Newquay line.

Long story short, the cascade looks to be the following:[...]
175 replaces 158 on Barnstaple (for Cardiff Portsmouth services)
158 replaces 16x on Portsmouth Cardiff (for Gloucester/Worcester)
16x replaces 80x on local Gloucester/Worcester (back to HSS work)

Hmm. 158s on Cardiff to Portsmouth will be fine provided there is enough capacity at peak times but I think that the use of 800s and 802s is a good thing in the peak hours between Cardiff, Bristol TM, WsM and Taunton for the extra capacity. I also think that getting rid of 800 / 802 between Cardiff Central and Bristol TM might not work very well when there are events on in Cardiff such as rugby so if the above proves to be correct then I will be very surprised if 800s & 802s don't turn up on Bristol TM services on such occasions.

The 175s are nice trains and I enjoyed them for the years I used them on the Marches. GWR have done quite well with this.

I agree that the 175s are good trains but my only issue with them when they were in Wales was capacity. Back in the days of the 175s between Cardiff and Swansea I would avoid the 175s because I could never get a seat on one and would frequently end up standing so I would wait the extra time at Cardiff Central and hop on an 800 / 802 from London Paddington.

Dave

 

[driverd]

What are the big differences? Mechanically, they appear to be very similar, with the same makes of engine and transmission.

Also, does the fire suppressant still smell like washing up liquid (as in the 180)?

Things like the transmission or engine type make next to no difference to drivers. Generically speaking, the main points covered in traction training are:
1. Rules and regs, non-standard procedures (eg: speed restrictions - do they comply with MU/SP/HST differentials, any location specific details).
2. Cab layout
3. Below solebar arrangements
4. Interior equipment locations
5. Fault finding
6. Train failure arrangements

Followed by supervised train handling, especially if the unit has significant differences (eg: CPBC when drivers have only ever used seperate handles for power/brake, variable brake when drivers have only used stepped brake etc).

The big points that take a lot of time to cover are things like faults and failures and rules that apply to these. Whilst the rule book covers some catch all examples, there are plenty of traction specific quirks/exceptions.

In terms of handling, 20 hours may be overkill for some, but if there are drivers who have only driven sprinters for some years, the handling characteristics are going to be somewhat different and its almost as much about unlearning things that might be unhelpful (eg: muscle memory of how much you move your hand for a certain brake step might equate to too much/too little brake - for a perfect example of how important and how critical this can be, see the RAIB report for the collision at Neville Hill).

As someone who has no experience of 175s and no knowledge of the GWR program for training, I'm sure others can give a more comprehensive overview - this is just the simple summary.

 

[craigybagel]

What are the big differences? Mechanically, they appear to be very similar, with the same makes of engine and transmission.

Thank you @fgwrich and @driverd for your replies. To expand on them:

Alstom TMS for a start.

That's a fairly big part alright. You can tell it's an old system, it doesn't have the functionality of modern TMS systems but it's still a big step up from Sprinters. They aren't much use on their own for fixing things but they're very handy for fault finding.

Things like the transmission or engine type make next to no difference to drivers. Generically speaking, the main points covered in traction training are:
1. Rules and regs, non-standard procedures (eg: speed restrictions - do they comply with MU/SP/HST differentials, any location specific details).

Yes to MU&HST, no to SP

2. Cab layout

Completely different from Sprinters - and not the most obvious to work out. I'd love to know the reasoning behind the placement of the engine on and off switches... ..

3. Below solebar arrangements

Also pretty different, further complicated by the skirts. At TfW drivers didn't touch anything behind the skirts but even the essential stuff that was kept accessible was still pretty different from Sprinters

4. Interior equipment locations
5. Fault finding

See my comment on TMS above. And also there's all the many and magical things you can do inside the cabinets in the vestibules at the opposite end from the cab. You need to isolate an engine? Good luck trying to find the relevant switches without training - they're not in the most intuitive locations.

6. Train failure arrangements

Lots of special switches in the cab to use in various failure situations. Plus even when they're in full squadron service there's still going to be lots of incompatible units around, so presumably they will want to have plans in place to cover this.

Followed by supervised train handling, especially if the unit has significant differences (eg: CPBC when drivers have only ever used seperate handles for power/brake, variable brake when drivers have only used stepped brake etc).

The big points that take a lot of time to cover are things like faults and failures and rules that apply to these. Whilst the rule book covers some catch all examples, there are plenty of traction specific quirks/exceptions.

In terms of handling, 20 hours may be overkill for some, but if there are drivers who have only driven sprinters for some years, the handling characteristics are going to be somewhat different and its almost as much about unlearning things that might be unhelpful (eg: muscle memory of how much you move your hand for a certain brake step might equate to too much/too little brake - for a perfect example of how important and how critical this can be, see the RAIB report for the collision at Neville Hill).

The way they handle is definitely the biggest difference. For starters, they are both quicker to get going and quicker to stop than any kind of Sprinter. Even with the hydrodynamic brake permanently isolated (something I assume GWR will continue) the friction brakes are still very good - but with no steps between initial and full service it does take some getting used to, and you'll be using it from higher speeds.

They're genuinely nice units to drive, and I think you'll struggle to find a driver at TfW who doesn't miss them - but they take a bit of getting used to. Plus, it's probably in passengers best interests for it to take a little longer to get the units into service if it means the crews have more experience and there's less likely to be failures as a result when they do finally enter service. They have a reputation for being temperamental, and they've been in storage for a while, so there are likely to be challenges. Fingers crossed GWR can iron out all the issues now, and that they have a successful second career in the West Country.

 

[mmh]

Doesn't look like GWR has had much (or indeed anything) done to the interior in that photo. The ends of the tables may be more rounded than before - not sure?

I'd say they've changed nothing - right down to the "Wifi am ddim" sign.

That picture really does show just how good an interior they had, including when compared with the 197s that replaced them.

 

[irish_rail]

Things like the transmission or engine type make next to no difference to drivers. Generically speaking, the main points covered in traction training are:
1. Rules and regs, non-standard procedures (eg: speed restrictions - do they comply with MU/SP/HST differentials, any location specific details).
2. Cab layout
3. Below solebar arrangements
4. Interior equipment locations
5. Fault finding
6. Train failure arrangements

Followed by supervised train handling, especially if the unit has significant differences (eg: CPBC when drivers have only ever used seperate handles for power/brake, variable brake when drivers have only used stepped brake etc).

The big points that take a lot of time to cover are things like faults and failures and rules that apply to these. Whilst the rule book covers some catch all examples, there are plenty of traction specific quirks/exceptions.

In terms of handling, 20 hours may be overkill for some, but if there are drivers who have only driven sprinters for some years, the handling characteristics are going to be somewhat different and its almost as much about unlearning things that might be unhelpful (eg: muscle memory of how much you move your hand for a certain brake step might equate to too much/too little brake - for a perfect example of how important and how critical this can be, see the RAIB report for the collision at Neville Hill).

As someone who has no experience of 175s and no knowledge of the GWR program for training, I'm sure others can give a more comprehensive overview - this is just the simple summary.

Too be clear, every single GWR driver that is going to learn 175s Is competent on driving 80x (ie trains with TMS and combined PBC etc). No one is going from Sprinters only to 175s.

 

[Roylang]

Comment has been made that Wolverton have been slow to address the work needed on the 175s, but do we actually know this is the case? Is it possible that GWR have not wanted them delivered yet owing to, for example, siding space or even financial reasons?

If GWR are delaying things, perhaps we could see a lot delivered quickly?

Roy

 

[hwl]

Comment has been made that Wolverton have been slow to address the work needed on the 175s, but do we actually know this is the case? Is it possible that GWR have not wanted them delivered yet owing to, for example, siding space or even financial reasons?

If GWR are delaying things, perhaps we could see a lot delivered quickly?

Roy

On the financial reasons - there is the potential that far more work was found to needed when they turned up at Wolverton and started doing the work adding to costs and the need to DfT sign off on more budget?

 

[REVUpminster]

Comment has been made that Wolverton have been slow to address the work needed on the 175s, but do we actually know this is the case? Is it possible that GWR have not wanted them delivered yet owing to, for example, siding space or even financial reasons?

If GWR are delaying things, perhaps we could see a lot delivered quickly?

Roy

I did wonder this and that GWR do not want stock lying idle at Laira where they do have plenty of room. I'm hoping that three of four units will come down together in the next few weeks.

 

[paultucker1012]

I did wonder this and that GWR do not want stock lying idle at Laira where they do have plenty of room. I'm hoping that three of four units will come down together in the next few weeks.

How many 175's (units or vehicles) can be operated together in multiple?

 

[REVUpminster]

How many 175's (units or vehicles) can be operated together in multiple?

I would have thought the only restriction would be signalling blocks and if more than one driver for safety reasons if one became ill. I would think a minimum of three 3 car units.

 

[Ashley Hill]

How many 175's (units or vehicles) can be operated together in multiple?

IIRC the number is dependent to the number of cabs in the formation.