Project Oval: TfL win DfT contract to expand contactless system to 233 rail stations by May 2024, Railcards coming to contactless payment cards

[Jaydubya]

I think White Notley might see an increase in passenger numbers ?

Battlesbridge will be cheaper than Wickford for an off peak return as well!

 

[SAPhil]

I don't understand why weekend Super off peak tickets are no longer available from Luton, Leagrave and Harlington but are still available from stations further in - not that I'm complaining!

 

[MrJeeves]

I don't understand why weekend Super off peak tickets are no longer available from Luton, Leagrave and Harlington but are still available from stations further in - not that I'm complaining!

Because the locations closer to London than Luton already had contactless fares, therefore have not been touched as part of the expansion.

 

[SAPhil]

Because the locations closer to London than Luton already had contactless fares, therefore have not been touched as part of the expansion.

I know that but I don't understand why they haven't already lost these fares.

 

[CyrusWuff]

The one that really gets me, though, is how there are simple splitting anomalies in the Ovalised Anytime Day Single/Return fares on both the WCML and Chiltern Aylesbury branch (and probably others). You'd think they would have bothered to stick the fares in an Excel spreadsheet and run a quick script to make sure they hadn't created them in such a simple, entirely new fare set, but oh no

You'd like to think so, but in most cases all that's been done is looking at the current return price in both directions, taking the higher of the two and halving it (rounding to a multiple of 10p) to get the new Single/Contactless fare.

There's been little to no attempt to sense check anything.

 

[Mark J]

In the case of London Liverpool Street to Southend Victoria.

(Prices include railcard discount, and are day returns.)

Pre-Project Oval

Anytime (SDR): £22.30
Off-Peak (CDR) : £19.30
Super Off-Peak (SOB): £16.30

Project Oval prices from 7th December 2025.

Anytime (SDR): £26.75
Off-Peak (CDR) : £19.30
Off-Peak (DDR): £17.80

----

The Anytime fare has increased by £4.45.

Off-Peak (CDR) has remained the same

The cheapest fare has increased by £1.50, with the abolition of the Super Off-Peak (SOB) , and replaced with an Off-Peak (DDR) fare.

So once again, this is little more than raising prices by the back door - disguised as 'fares simplification'.

This is the very reason I want Project Oval nowhere near my local Station.

These prices will also increase again during the annual price rises in March 2026.

 

[JonathanH]

The biggest losers will be families, Off-Peak departures will now start an hour or more later, meaning arrival in London with kids will be an hour later, then can no longer return between 4pm and 7pm without a massive increase in fares.

The terms for travelcards, and family travelcards, have not changed and don't have an evening peak restriction. Yes, they can no longer get a off-peak day return and return at the original times, but at least the increase is capped.

There are, of course, other journeys where travelcards are not helpful in this regard, but the damage to the London market (which represents most travel affected by Project Oval) is mitigated by this.

 

[Mark J]

GA have, as I expected, made some bizarre and frankly unjustifiable changes to the Stansted Airport <-> London fares.

The Anytime Return (currently £38) is abolished, with the Off-Peak Day Return (CDR, £28) being the only remaining return fare. This means that most airline passengers (likely making period return journeys) will pay quite a bit more.

Those travelling at "off-peak" times in both directions will now pay £42. Those travelling at peak times in one direction pay £44 and those travelling at peak times both ways pay £46, an increase of 21%. The only people who benefit from these changes are those making a one-way journey at peak times, as the Anytime single is reduced from £25 to £23.

These aggressive fare increases (arising from GA's refusal to charge half the existing return fare) lead to split ticketing opportunities galore. Bishops Stortford is the obvious option since all Stansted "Express" trains stop there - saving up to £7.30 for those travelling off-peak both ways. Splitting at Stansted Mountfitchet, Harlow or Sawbridgeworth also offer savings but restricts your choice of trains due to the skip-stop pattern.

Of course GA will be banking on lots of people simply using contactless and not querying the cost. But it's very disreputable in my view.

It is these sneaky ways of ripping off passengers even more, that I cannot stand.

Fine, do fares simplification.

However, why does it always have to result in the cheapest tickets disappearing, and replaced with more expensive options.

The double whammy, as I've previously stated, is these fares rising in December, then again in March 2026.

 

[MikeWh]

The terms for travelcards, and family travelcards have not changed and don't have an evening peak restriction.

Indeed. This also matches the off-peak daily cap on contactless which applies after 0930 (or earlier in some cases).

 

[Bletchleyite]

In the case of London Liverpool Street to Southend Victoria.

(Prices include railcard discount, and are day returns.)

Pre-Project Oval

Anytime (SDR): £22.30
Off-Peak (CDR) : £19.30
Super Off-Peak (SOB): £16.30

Project Oval prices from 7th December 2025.

Anytime (SDR): £26.75
Off-Peak (CDR) : £19.30
Off-Peak (DDR): £17.80

That looks a weird half job that hasn't followed the standard Oval pattern. The old CDR has remained in addition to the new Ovalised DDR, and there's no Off Peak Day Single added at half the return. Anyone know why that is?

 

[Mark J]

That looks a weird half job that hasn't followed the standard Oval pattern. The old CDR has remained in addition to the new Ovalised DDR, and there's no Off Peak Day Single added at half the return. Anyone know why that is?

Yes.

Only an Anytime day single will be offered at £13.35, so not half the Off-Peak return fare.

 

[Starmill]

The one that really gets me, though, is how there are simple splitting anomalies in the Ovalised Anytime Day Single/Return fares on both the WCML and Chiltern Aylesbury branch (and probably others). You'd think they would have bothered to stick the fares in an Excel spreadsheet and run a quick script to make sure they hadn't created them in such a simple, entirely new fare set, but oh no

I suppose that's no worse than the contactless fares to/from stations Coulsdon South - Horley often being more expensive than the equivalent paper single.

Horley - Waddon Anytime Day Single £6.80
Horley - Waddon Cpay Off Peak £9.00
Horley - Waddon Cpay Peak £11.00

The above has been the case for what, a decade or so? I wouldn't expect anything good to come out of expanding a system that does that... The tech is solid. The prices are a dog's dinner.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Nov 2025 ==

That looks a weird half job that hasn't followed the standard Oval pattern. The old CDR has remained in addition to the new Ovalised DDR, and there's no Off Peak Day Single added at half the return. Anyone know why that is?

I guess that's partly the issue. There are just so, so many exceptions to the standard Oval pattern.

 

[Haywain]

but at least the increase is capped.

Capped to the higher price of the Travelcard? I'm not sure I see that as "capped" so much as costing more for validity people don't want or need.

 

[JonathanH]

I suppose that's no worse than the contactless fares to/from stations Coulsdon South - Horley often being more expensive than the equivalent paper single.

Horley - Waddon Anytime Day Single £6.80
Horley - Waddon Cpay Off Peak £9.00
Horley - Waddon Cpay Peak £11.00

The above has been the case for what, a decade or so? I wouldn't expect anything good to come out of expanding a system that does that... The tech is solid. The prices are a dog's dinner.

I've always thought that is some system limitation about Oyster zones. In the case of Waddon the paper fares are in a cluster including Croydon, but the Cpay fares aren't.

The Project Oval fares for Reigate and Oyster / Contactless fares for Redhill with different paper fare overlays, peak treatment are going to a complete mess from 14 December. Way to complicated to summarise in one go.

 

[chalky80]

The official plan is to extend contactless to all the South Western Railway metro network but so far contactless has been extended to very few SWR stations outside London. The prospect of a weekday afternoon peak with contactless when there is none without probably means users of those stations are not clamouring for contactless.

Email received today from SWR informing customers that "in the coming months" existing smartcard validators will be temporarily unavailable (1-2 weeks per device) to allow for contactless travel roll out. I'll take it is as a sign that the work has reached a fairly mature schedule if it's got to the point of an email to passengers.

Stations where these upgrades are taking place:
• Addlestone
• Bookham
• Byfleet & New Haw
• Chertsey
• Clandon
• Claygate
• Cobham & Stoke D'Abernon
• Effingham Junction
• Esher
• Guildford
• Hersham
• Hinchley Wood
• Horsley
• London Road (Guildford)
• Oxshott
• Walton-on-Thames
• West Byfleet
• Weybridge
• Woking
• Worplesdon

 

[MikeWh]

Email received today from SWR informing customers that "in the coming months" existing smartcard validators will be temporarily unavailable (1-2 weeks per device) to allow for contactless travel roll out. I'll take it is as a sign that the work has reached a fairly mature schedule if it's got to the point of an email to passengers.

Stations where these upgrades are taking place:
• Addlestone
• Bookham
• Byfleet & New Haw
• Chertsey
• Clandon
• Claygate
• Cobham & Stoke D'Abernon
• Effingham Junction
• Esher
• Guildford
• Hersham
• Hinchley Wood
• Horsley
• London Road (Guildford)
• Oxshott
• Walton-on-Thames
• West Byfleet
• Weybridge
• Woking
• Worplesdon

That's encouraging. Everything from Surbiton to Guildford plus Bookham and the line from Weybridge to Virginia Water. It'll be interesting to see how they price fares from Weybridge to Clapham Junction/Waterloo.

 

[Chriso]

They should be prioritising railcard discount before extending further

 

[philjo]

I noticed that some local fares on the GN route could be confusing.
Off peak in both directions it is slightly cheaper to pay 2 off peak singles than an off peak return.
Peak hours - the anytime return is slightly cheaper than 2 anytime singles.

 

[Farigiraf]

They should be prioritising railcard discount before extending further

Presumably they don't because one of the (unspoken) reasons why they're doing Project Oval is to introduce evening peak restrictions in the home counties - i.e. make more money, so railcard discounts - which lose them money - are low on the priority list.

 

[Sonic1234]

Presumably they don't because one of the (unspoken) reasons why they're doing Project Oval is to introduce evening peak restrictions in the home counties - i.e. make more money, so railcard discounts - which lose them money - are low on the priority list.

Yes. I've always said this, it's about increasing fares, hiding fares from passengers and breaking the psychological link between paying for travel and the act of travel.

People on here are a minority analysing every detail of the new fares and debating when paper is better or buying from further afield. Most will just tap the magic card and go. An aggregated fare will appear on a bank statement which is never checked.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes. I've always said this, it's about increasing fares, hiding fares from passengers and breaking the psychological link between paying for travel and the act of travel.

That at least brings rail in line with car. It's also quite convenient, no need to faff about buying a ticket beforehand. And with most of Oval you pay the same whether you choose paper, e-ticket or contactless, Railcards and quirks of time restrictions aside.

It is an issue where the fares approach is so different from the Oval approach, though - the change (increase) was much less on the WCML than GTR.

 

[Starmill]

I've always thought that is some system limitation about Oyster zones. In the case of Waddon the paper fares are in a cluster including Croydon, but the Cpay fares aren't.

The Project Oval fares for Reigate and Oyster / Contactless fares for Redhill with different paper fare overlays, peak treatment are going to a complete mess from 14 December. Way to complicated to summarise in one go.

Yes. The prices are a disaster story basically everywhere except for the straightforward last station in Zone 6 first station outside it on Oval e.g. Knockholt. Nowhere more so than the Redhill area, though Grays, Amersham, Reading, Luton Airport and so on all have quirks.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Nov 2025 ==

That at least brings rail in line with car. It's also quite convenient, no need to faff about buying a ticket beforehand. And with most of Oval you pay the same whether you choose paper, e-ticket or contactless, Railcards and quirks of time restrictions aside.

It is an issue where the fares approach is so different from the Oval approach, though - the change (increase) was much less on the WCML than GTR.

I think a lot of people will be getting some nasty "bill shock" like the scam that was mobile roaming of old.

 

[misar]

Yes. I've always said this, it's about increasing fares, hiding fares from passengers and breaking the psychological link between paying for travel and the act of travel.

Introducing a major change to the ticketing system is bound to change some fares but paranoia like this is bizarre. Having a uniform, contactless system across a wide area is a major benefit to customers which most welcome. The change also helps to improve the efficiency of the railway. Do any of those crying foul have factual evidence that the overall effect on fares will be a substantial increase? More likely the effect will be largely neutral as any increases and decreases balance out.

 

[Mcv378]

Introducing a major change to the ticketing system is bound to change some fares but paranoia like this is bizarre. Having a uniform, contactless system across a wide area is a major benefit to customers which most welcome. The change also helps to improve the efficiency of the railway. Do any of those crying foul have factual evidence that the overall effect on fares will be a substantial increase? More likely the effect will be largely neutral as any increases and decreases balance out.

I'm sure most people won't be aware that contactless will bring about large increases in fares, and just see it as ''contactless is good''

Personally I think if the system implemented can't recognise three different bands of fares (Peak, off-peak and super off peak) then the off peak prices on contactless should be what the super off peak fares are now.

 

[Haywain]

More likely the effect will be largely neutral as any increases and decreases balance out.

It won't. From places like Luton and Srevenage we've lost the cheap (super) off-peak and weekend fares and gained an afternoon peak that only existed for those fares before, but is also now longer. The only people getting cheaper fares are those commuters in the morning peak who can travel back either side of the afternoon peak.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It won't. From places like Luton and Srevenage we've lost the cheap (super) off-peak and weekend fares and gained an afternoon peak that only existed for those fares before, but is also now longer. The only people getting cheaper fares are those commuters in the morning peak who can travel back either side of the afternoon peak.

The other people getting cheaper fares are those making a period return journey who now pay the same as they would for a day return. Not a common use-case for the South East commuter area, though.

I'm sure I recall reading somewhere that it had been slightly revenue-negative on the WCML, but we didn't have the all-weekend Super Off Peaks you do, ours were so heavily restricted they were close to useless aside from on Sundays (when we moved to three-step a lot of people ended up paying more, so going back to two-step pretty much as it was before London Midland wasn't entirely unwelcome). I can't confirm where though.

 

[izvor]

Introducing a major change to the ticketing system is bound to change some fares but paranoia like this is bizarre.

It's not "paranoia" to complain about huge increases in fares (disguised as "progress"), and/or a reduction in availability.

 

[CyrusWuff]

Introducing a major change to the ticketing system is bound to change some fares but paranoia like this is bizarre. Having a uniform, contactless system across a wide area is a major benefit to customers which most welcome. The change also helps to improve the efficiency of the railway. Do any of those crying foul have factual evidence that the overall effect on fares will be a substantial increase? More likely the effect will be largely neutral as any increases and decreases balance out.

The fact that a PM peak restriction is being introduced where it didn't previously exist in many cases, the AM peak restriction is a blanket 06:30 - 09:30 (04:30 - 09:30 for traditional tickets), and contra-peak fares are being removed so prices are the same in both directions, means prices will go up for many people.

Doubly so where someone's using a traditional ticket (e.g. because they have a Railcard) as a peak restriction will apply where any train is scheduled to depart during the restricted period, whereas it's only the time of the first touch on a journey that affects whether you're charged a peak or off-peak fare for contactless.

For example: Someone travelling from Aylesbury Vale Parkway to Marylebone can currently use an Off-Peak ticket on the 09:13 departure from AVP, due into Marylebone at 10:28. From 7th December, their first off-peak service will be the 10:10, due into Marylebone at 11:23.

Want to travel from Aylesbury Vale Parkway to Gatwick Airport? At present, you can get an Off-Peak ticket for any train from 09:13 until the end of the day. From 7th December you'll only be able to get the 10:10, 11:10, 12:10 or 13:10 if using a traditional ticket, then you'll have to wait until 19:10. Using contactless is slightly less restrictive, and will also allow you to catch the 14:10 and 15:10 (and the 16:10 if you touch-in before 16:00.)

 

[Bletchleyite]

Want to travel from Aylesbury Vale Parkway to Gatwick Airport? At present, you can get an Off-Peak ticket for any train from 09:13 until the end of the day. From 7th December you'll only be able to get the 10:10, 11:10, 12:10 or 13:10 if using a traditional ticket, then you'll have to wait until 19:10. Using contactless is slightly less restrictive, and will also allow you to catch the 14:10 and 15:10 (and the 16:10 if you touch-in before 16:00.)

To balance that, though, you're not likely to be making a day return journey from Aylesbury Vale Parkway to Gatwick, more likely a period return journey.

Off Peak Return presently: £83.90
Anytime Return presently: £98.10

Whereas post Oval:

Anytime Day Single x2 = 2 x 49.10 = £98.20 (OK, a 10p increase, but hey)

BUT... off peak one way and you're down to:

Anytime Day Single + Off Peak Day Single = 49.10 + 22.80 = £71.90

Off peak both ways and it's:

2 x Off Peak Day Single = 2 x 22.80 = just £45.80, which isn't far off halving the fare.

Thus with this specific one it's very much horses for courses, and if travelling shoulder peak there may be further savings by splitting so only half of it is peak.

 

[Hadders]

Introducing a major change to the ticketing system is bound to change some fares but paranoia like this is bizarre. Having a uniform, contactless system across a wide area is a major benefit to customers which most welcome. The change also helps to improve the efficiency of the railway. Do any of those crying foul have factual evidence that the overall effect on fares will be a substantial increase? More likely the effect will be largely neutral as any increases and decreases balance out.

I've already posted this but let's look at Stevenage to Kings Cross.

Increases of 20% to travel at weekends
A 29% increase for a Network Railcard holder to make an off-peak journey returning in the evening peak

To put it into further context, this time last year it cost £14.60 to travel from Stevenage to London at the weekend.
From 7th December it's going to cost £20.10. A 38% increase.

Then to add insult to injury, Welwyn Garden City (3 stations closer to London) has contactless but retains its previous traditional fare structure, including the absence of evening peak restrictions and cheaper Super Off Peak tickets at weekends. At the weekend the cost of travelling to Kings Cross is £12.80.

Then for further 'complication', consider Arlesey which is two stations north and the first station outside the extended contactless area. Again, there's an absence of evening peak restrictions and cheaper tickets at the weekend which cost £19.10.

Here's the cost of weekend travel costs to Kings Cross:
Welwyn Garden City £12.80
Welwyn North £15.40
Knebworth £16.60
Stevenage £20.00
Hitchin £22.60
Arlesey £19.10

Does anyone think this is a simplification?