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Project Oval: TfL win DfT contract to expand contactless system to 233 rail stations by May 2024, Railcards coming to contactless payment cards
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Sleepy
Established Member
All the naughty people with Chelmsford to Stratford "Saver" tickets being used as a flexi season are in for a shock 
Goldfish62
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Virginia Water - Reading is very much the land that time forgot in respect of SE commuter routes.
Ticket_man
Member
Yes, that is a fundamental part of single leg pricing. For journeys into London, under Oval, the off-peak day travelcard tends not to have evening peak restrictions applied which tempers the impact on passengers.
Further out, passengers travelling with the peak flow get a big fare increase.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Does anyone know why these are changing to DDR rather than using CDR? The time restriction isn't part of the ticket type of course, so it seems odd to invent a new ticket type for them, but it seems to have been pretty much universally done in contactless zones.
So the time restrictions can be enforced by ticket gates, as Cubic gates only look at the ticket type to determine what time restrictions to apply.
Forum members wanting to see contactless extended to their local station might want to see the fares increases that are coming as a result of this.
20% increase at the weekend from my local station to London is a high price to pay for convenience and simplification. Large increases also for anyone travelling out off peak and returning in the evening peak.
20% increase at the weekend from my local station to London is a high price to pay for convenience and simplification. Large increases also for anyone travelling out off peak and returning in the evening peak.
Oooft, it'll be *significantly* cheaper for someone in Harlington or Leagrave on the Thameslink route wanting a day out in London at the weekend to buy from Flitwick and start short. Even more so if they want a Travelcard too!
Of course, the counter is that commuters leaving before 0630 and returning after 1900 get a much cheaper journey than before. Those passengers absolutely want Contactless extended. Peak time commuters get the convenience with no increase in their fares. Passengers making single journeys off-peak also benefit.
Haywain
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How?
If a commuter is currently paying for an anytime day return, and can now travel in before 0630 and back after 1900 then they are now travelling at the equivalent of an off-peak day return.
weeklycommuter
Member
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The official plan is to extend contactless to all the South Western Railway metro network but so far contactless has been extended to very few SWR stations outside London. The prospect of a weekday afternoon peak with contactless when there is none without probably means users of those stations are not clamouring for contactless.
Haywain
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Those doing both of those things will be a tiny number, and far outnumbered by those losing out by having to pay more.
A regular commuter would achieve a similar saving by using aseason or flexi-season ticket. This is a huge increase to travel at leisure times.
Yes, absolutely, but I'm just saying that there are winners as well as losers, and so there will still be people "wanting to see contactless extended to their local station".
778
Member
Would you expect evening restrictions on off peak day travelcards when project oval is complete? Also could peak restrictions be extended to Saturdays at some point?
Kite159
Veteran Member
Don't give the DfT any ideas
There are far fewer winners than losers.
Increases of 20% to travel at weekends
A 27% increase for a Network Railcard holder to make an off-peak journey returning in the evening peak
Yes, someone touching in before 06:30 will save money as will someone making a genuine single journey but these will be far fewer compared to the number of leisure passengers who lose out massively.
To put it into further context, this time last year it cost £14.60 to travel from Stevenage to London at the weekend.
From 7th December it's going to cost £20.10. A 38% increase.
I don't think this sort of increase, effectively with no notice or publicity, is acceptable.
However, one off-peak single and one anytime single will still be a saving over an anytime return. The further out you are the easier it is to start travel before 0630.
Is it allowed to start short on an outboundary Travelcard ?
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Or rather it is unless it's an Off Peak/Super Off Peak and the restriction code prohibits it. Obviously any such restriction only applies until you enter the Zones at which point you can do what you like.
An example of one where the restriction code does prohibit Break of Journey (and thus starting/ending short) on the outward journey is Birmingham Stations to Zones 1-6 route High Wycombe, restriction code PV:
Purchase flexible walk-up fares for any British train journey
Purchase flexible single/return tickets & Travelcards – in 3 clicks. Full details of all British rail fares shown, with built-in Season Ticket Calculator.
www.brfares.com
Wouldn't surprise me to see some of these anomalies get break of journey restrictions, but there is one I use a fair bit where that hasn't happened so maybe it's just not seen as a concern due to the small saving and the fact that most people won't think to do it. Indeed not only is the one I'm thinking of (which I'll not name) allowed, but it opens the gateline when you start/stop short!
Goldfish62
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Peak fares should be abolished, not extended!
Sleepy
Established Member
I think White Notley might see an increase in passenger numbers ? 
They aren't 'anomalies' - if there's any attempt to restrict BoJ on fares to/from Bedford just because a subset of people in the industry see these as such I will not be impressed. In any case, at least on the MML, once Oval is rolled out in full there won't be any as the fares from north of Wellingborough (inclusive) to London are priced by EMR and are significantly pricier.Or rather it is unless it's an Off Peak/Super Off Peak and the restriction code prohibits it. Obviously any such restriction only applies until you enter the Zones at which point you can do what you like.
An example of one where the restriction code does prohibit Break of Journey (and thus starting/ending short) on the outward journey is Birmingham Stations to Zones 1-6 route High Wycombe, restriction code PV:
Purchase flexible walk-up fares for any British train journey
Purchase flexible single/return tickets & Travelcards – in 3 clicks. Full details of all British rail fares shown, with built-in Season Ticket Calculator.
Wouldn't surprise me to see some of these anomalies get break of journey restrictions, but there is one I use a fair bit where that hasn't happened so maybe it's just not seen as a concern due to the small saving and the fact that most people won't think to do it. Indeed not only is the one I'm thinking of (which I'll not name) allowed, but it opens the gateline when you start/stop short!
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
You say potato...
I would be similarly unimpressed if the one I use was so restricted, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was. But this, as you say, is just an issue while Oval is only partially rolled out - once the rollout is complete there'll be few if any left.
The one that really gets me, though, is how there are simple splitting anomalies in the Ovalised Anytime Day Single/Return fares on both the WCML and Chiltern Aylesbury branch (and probably others). You'd think they would have bothered to stick the fares in an Excel spreadsheet and run a quick script to make sure they hadn't created them in such a simple, entirely new fare set, but oh no
TOCs are fully aware. Oval is a political project - there are a number of factors that TOCs don’t like, and a number of solutions and alternatives proposed by TOCs that politicians don’t like. It is an uneasy compromise.
There is a well known split anomaly on a route described above. The solution to fix is proposed by the TOC and declined every fares round due to the optics of impacting those who haven’t been positively described in a press release.
I would not be surprised at all if that is playing out with every TOC in the scheme.
There is a well known split anomaly on a route described above. The solution to fix is proposed by the TOC and declined every fares round due to the optics of impacting those who haven’t been positively described in a press release.
I would not be surprised at all if that is playing out with every TOC in the scheme.
Minstral25
Established Member
The biggest losers will be families, Off-Peak departures will now start an hour or more later, meaning arrival in London with kids will be an hour later, then can no longer return between 4pm and 7pm without a massive increase in fares.
Children, Pensioners and Railcard holders will also feel the pinch as the new cheap "contactless" fares will not be available to them
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
This isn't correct in the Oval area. While the restrictions differ slightly for practical reasons relating to how they can be implemented, the paper/e-ticket fares are exactly the same as the contactless ones.