AWC Derailment at Shap Summit 03/11/25

[FrontSideBus]

I wonder what damage there was to the track. I'd be surprised if the wheels didn't smash up a few sleepers.
Couldn't have been too clever on the trains bogies either.

 

[DelW]

Why sadly? They are designed to be the easily replaceable bit. Much better than having to replace or repair the whole cab structure.

I'd expect the majority of the need to be as a result of wild animal strikes - probably mainly deer, possibly also badgers.

 

[karlbbb]

I wonder what damage there was to the track. I'd be surprised if the wheels didn't smash up a few sleepers.
Couldn't have been too clever on the trains bogies either.

Seems it was minimal damage to the bogies considering the train was towed without skates, then moved under its own power overnight.

 

[cats_five]

Seems it was minimal damage to the bogies considering the train was towed without skates, then moved under its own power overnight.

Maybe not. See https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/awc-derailment-at-shap-summit-03-11-25.294230/post-7536158

 

[a_c_skinner]

Sadly the fibre glass nose cones are replaced on a regular basis so there is a stock at all depots.

I could have worked that out I guess. Thanks for such a polite reply.

 

[Spartacus]

I wonder what damage there was to the track. I'd be surprised if the wheels didn't smash up a few sleepers.
Couldn't have been too clever on the trains bogies either.

Damaged TPWS grids, various cables (mostly track circuit related), but most of the damage was limited to the overheads, probably down to the panel going skyward then returning to earth due to the impact.

 

[Dave W]

There were a couple of spare 373 noses at North Pole in Eurostar days

I'm certain I recall riding down Orient Way alongside Temple Mills and there being stands with spare nosecones on - you could see quite a lot from the road. Not been that way for a few years though, so may be different now the trains have changed.

I was about to say there is quite the procession of freight trains running over the WCML. I assumed most had been diverted by the S&C or even ECML but evidently they believe in NR ambitious reopening and to their credit in under 48 hours (barely 36 hours) they've achieved it. In appalling conditions and in a remote site they are to be commended.

Said this yesterday - even if damage was relatively slight, some of the more intricate work must have been very tricky at the top of Shap, especially at this time of year. Top marks to all involved.

 

[zwk500]

I was about to say there is quite the procession of freight trains running over the WCML. I assumed most had been diverted by the S&C or even ECML but evidently they believe in NR ambitious reopening and to their credit in under 48 hours (barely 36 hours) they've achieved it. In appalling conditions and in a remote site they are to be commended.

S&C isn't cleared for the bigger containers on standard wagons (possibly not even cleared for the bigger containers on any wagon). Not sure about W12 clearances on the northern sections of the ECML - they aren't in the appendix but may be on temproary certificates.

 

[DesDobramento]

Kudos to LNER for managing to run a 1520 Edinburgh>York and 1803 return additional service on Tuesday afternoon 4 November to provide an additional cross-border facility for displaced Avanti/TransPennine passengers.

Realtime Trains suggests 1Z90 southbound and 1Z91 northbound were formed of 801223 and, despite the major signalling disruption around Thirsk in the evening, arrived/departed each end remarkably punctually.

 

[The Planner]

S&C isn't cleared for the bigger containers on standard wagons (possibly not even cleared for the bigger containers on any wagon). Not sure about W12 clearances on the northern sections of the ECML - they aren't in the appendix but may be on temproary certificates.

Settle and Carlisle is W6.

 

[zwk500]

Settle and Carlisle is W6.

Thanks, thought it was either W6 or W7.

What about north half of ECML - does that have W10 or W12 on certificates, I don't think (but could be wrong) it's above W8 or W9 in Appendix.

 

[BorderCollie]

W9/10/12 UK gauge clearance maps

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/Network-Rail-freight-map-intermodal-sector-with-gauge-clearance.pdf

https://grn.ams3.digitaloceanspaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/04-1.jpg

 

[E100]

S&C isn't cleared for the bigger containers on standard wagons (possibly not even cleared for the bigger containers on any wagon). Not sure about W12 clearances on the northern sections of the ECML - they aren't in the appendix but may be on temproary certificates.

Ah of course. Thanks for the informative reply.

 

[zwk500]

W9/10/12 UK gauge clearance maps

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/Network-Rail-freight-map-intermodal-sector-with-gauge-clearance.pdf

https://grn.ams3.digitaloceanspaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/04-1.jpg

Thanks for the info, didnt realise W12 was that prevalent on thr ECML!

 

[35B]

390117 has been recovered to Polmadie. Routes exist to allow it to be taken, with or without a reversal, to any likely repair site if it cannot be repaired at Polmadie - the most obvious (assuming no clearance issues) simply being to use the curves on the south bank of the Clyde to take it onto the GSW.

 

[wilbers]

Someone recorded the manoeuvering of 68003 at Penrith including one of the rare times platform 3 was used - railway equivalent of a 3-point turn. Also shows one of the TPE's.

 

[styles]

Someone recorded the manoeuvering of 68003 at Penrith including one of the rare times platform 3 was used - railway equivalent of a 3-point turn. Also shows one of the TPE's.

Did they require two locos for the pulling power, or some other logistical reason?

 

[hexagon789]

Did they require two locos for the pulling power, or some other logistical reason?

The 57 sprung an air leak, so the 68 was sent to assist.

 

[AndrewE]

The 57 sprung an air leak, so the 68 was sent to assist.

it is poor when a Thunderbird that they are being paid to have on standby fails at the first attempt to use it... I am surprised at DRS.

 

[styles]

The 57 sprung an air leak, so the 68 was sent to assist.

Brilliant.

 

[Yorkshire09876]

it is poor when a Thunderbird that they are being paid to have on standby fails at the first attempt to use it... I am surprised at DRS.

The contract ends later this year so quite probably they aren't really bothered!

 

[AndrewE]

The contract ends later this year so quite probably they aren't really bothered!

in that case they should be charged a penalty by the minute for the time everybody involved spends waiting for the assisting loco to turn up. I do hope this sort of business behaviour carries a price.

 

[j37401]

in that case they should be charged a penalty by the minute for the time everybody involved spends waiting for the assisting loco to turn up. I do hope this sort of business behaviour carries a price.

The loco may have been prepped correctly and has had no issues previous to this. Things can do go ‘pop’ at any time unfortunately including a rescue loco. Poorly maintained or just unlucky? we will never know so i’m surprised by the comments here without evidence.

 

[AndrewE]

The loco may have been prepped correctly and has had no issues previous to this. Things can do go ‘pop’ at any time unfortunately including a rescue loco. Poorly maintained or just unlucky? we will never know so i’m surprised by the comments here without evidence.

we / The client could ask how often the loco has been taken to a pendolino to check that the coupling works and their drivers remember how to use it...
If I was costing a Thunderbird contract I would include that, plus the light loco miles to achieve it.

 

[FrodshamJnct]

The loco may have been prepped correctly and has had no issues previous to this. Things can do go ‘pop’ at any time unfortunately including a rescue loco. Poorly maintained or just unlucky? we will never know so i’m surprised by the comments here without evidence.

Exactly. Aren’t they started up once per week to check things are okay anyway?

 

[AndrewE]

Exactly. Aren’t they started up once per week to check things are okay anyway?

that is the least I would expect - although there is still a risk the loco will be full of summer fuel and will wax up after a brief cold spell.

I would guess that the flexible pipework associated with the complicated coupling is a big risk for getting brittle if it is never moved - and thus quite likely to go pop when first used after an extended period. Hence my suggestion of going to see and couple up with a pendolino (and move it) peroidically.

 

[driver9000]

Exactly. Aren’t they started up once per week to check things are okay anyway?

It's usually started up at least once a day in my experience of the Carlisle 57/3.

 

[AndrewE]

It's usually started up at least once a day in my experience of the Carlisle 57/3.

and the Pendo coupling extended and retracted?

 

[chrisjo]

and the Pendo coupling extended and retracted?

I must have missed the bit where the air leak was said to be associated with the coupling mechanism? And if this was the case, how come it was OK to drag the pendo behind it all the way to Polmadie?

 

[AndrewE]

I must have missed the bit where the air leak was said to be associated with the coupling mechanism? And if this was the case, how come it was OK to drag the pendo behind it all the way to Polmadie?

I was guessing about something which might hardly ever see the air pressure.

Wrongly, as it seems that the assisting engine was able to haul the Thunderbird dead in train but the Pendo coupling doing its job.

What are the chances of a standby loco failing in this way: a rarely-used adaptor bit does work, a fundamental length of pipe in the ordinary loco gives out?

Just Sod's Law, I suppose. At least there were no trains running for it to cause further mayhem!