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TfW Class 67+Mk4 sets: trip planning/experiences, diagram updates etc

Jacob Porrett

Jacob Porrett

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sd0733 said:
Availability has certainly been dreadful for the past week or so, coming after a really good spell too. Tomorrow should see 3 and a half diagrams, likely 4 for the rest of this week and back to 5 next.

Current stauts are:
HD01 back in service tomorrow
HD02 In service
HD03 Severe wheelflats. Heading for new wheelsets and Investigation at Crewe ETD
HD04 In service
HD05 Heavy exam and lighting/electrical upgrades
HD06 Bell/Buzzer issues that haven't been rectified at Canton now moved to Crewe ETD
HD07 Loco coolant leak, back in service tomorrow afternoon with a different loco

The short forms aren't just because of Mk4s, 197s are suffering too and are well short of where they need to be. Leaf fall hasn't really helped the situation despite more lathes coming into use
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67016 dragging HD03 67015 to the TMD tomorrow night/early hours of Thursday morning.
 
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Topological

Topological

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First 3 trains north from Cardiff today which should be Mk4 were all 197s, including a 2-car on the 08:53.

How long is it since things were that bad?

1W12 did manage to keep its 5-cars, but 1W14 appears to be going with just 2-cars. Presumably, the flooding has impacted 1W14, but it is impossible to avoid the thought that one of the Cardiff starts (1W11 or 1W13) could have provided its 197 to that train if there was no need for cover.
 
S

sd0733

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Topological said:
If so it seems a bit harsh to blame 197 availability for the issues?
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Ignoring the sets stored at Holyhead (most of which are broken and replaced by ERTMS sets) there are 12 197s stopped at the moment at Crewe, Chester and Canton. The majority of those long term with major failures or underframe cracking. So yes its entirely fair, despite the issues with the Mk4 fleet that the poor availability and reliability of 197s is having an impact
 
Topological

Topological

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sd0733 said:
Ignoring the sets stored at Holyhead (most of which are broken and replaced by ERTMS sets) there are 12 197s stopped at the moment at Crewe, Chester and Canton. The majority of those long term with major failures or underframe cracking. So yes its entirely fair, despite the issues with the Mk4 fleet that the poor availability and reliability of 197s is having an impact
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But what is the impact for each 197 that has to cover a Mk4?

As I say, from the outside, each cover is a double unit that now can't be doubled because 1 of the 2 197s needs to go cover. So 3 covers on the Marches means 3 other Marches (or a 197 service somewhere else) are now losing a 197. In any day how many 197s are used to double up on the Marches? My back of the envelope maths estimates, 5. The specific units change, of course, but it is how many are needed for doubles between Swansea and Manchester. Of the 5, 3 pairs are split and essentially, you could only have 2 pairs left. Hence on a day where there are 3 Mk4 diagrams short, even if 197 performance meant the other two were also singles, the Mk4 would have had the bigger impact on shortforms.

It would just be helpful to understand the impact that each Mk4 failure has so an objective judgement can be made on why we see planned 197 services (e.g. 1W12) shortformed.
 
S

sd0733

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Topological said:
But what is the impact for each 197 that has to cover a Mk4?

As I say, from the outside, each cover is a double unit that now can't be doubled because 1 of the 2 197s needs to go cover. So 3 covers on the Marches means 3 other Marches (or a 197 service somewhere else) are now losing a 197. In any day how many 197s are used to double up on the Marches? My back of the envelope maths estimates, 5. The specific units change, of course, but it is how many are needed for doubles between Swansea and Manchester. Of the 5, 3 pairs are split and essentially, you could only have 2 pairs left. Hence on a day where there are 3 Mk4 diagrams short, even if 197 performance meant the other two were also singles, the Mk4 would have had the bigger impact on shortforms.

It would just be helpful to understand the impact that each Mk4 failure has so an objective judgement can be made on why we see planned 197 services (e.g. 1W12) shortformed.
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The majority of Mk4 substitutions are pre-planned at the moment and known at least a couple of days before. Therefore, a Canton 3 car 197 diagram on Cheltenham or Ebbw for example is already pencilled in to be backfilled by a 150/153s. Granted, it also causes short forms on the local routes and potentially on the valleys too but the intention is for them not to impact the Marches directly so much. Obviously on the day unplanned swaps are harder to cover and do lead to splitting pairs. This is why the most common diagram to sub is the Canton-Canton 04:35 start off Cardiff diagram as it balances anything for the next day.

Even when during the past few weeks (prior to the last 2 weeks where they certainly havent) when Mk4s had covered near enough all of the diagrams there were still numerous short forms on 197s, certainly not helped by the amount of the 3 car sets out of service.

That's not to say the Mk4 performance at the moment isn't dire, its clearly unacceptable the last 2 weeks. Having 2 sets out of service with faults that's causing them to be out of service has hammered availability.

Today should have had 3.5 diagrams. Unfortunately one of the full diagrams has become a .5 with 1W13 and return being lost but the Holyhead covered whilst the afternoon planned half diagram was lost due to no Crews available for the prep to get it off depot. Tomorrow should be back to 4.
 
Topological

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sd0733 said:
The majority of Mk4 substitutions are pre-planned at the moment and known at least a couple of days before. Therefore, a Canton 3 car 197 diagram on Cheltenham or Ebbw for example is already pencilled in to be backfilled by a 150/153s. Granted, it also causes short forms on the local routes and potentially on the valleys too but the intention is for them not to impact the Marches directly so much. Obviously on the day unplanned swaps are harder to cover and do lead to splitting pairs. This is why the most common diagram to sub is the Canton-Canton 04:35 start off Cardiff diagram as it balances anything for the next day.

Even when during the past few weeks (prior to the last 2 weeks where they certainly havent) when Mk4s had covered near enough all of the diagrams there were still numerous short forms on 197s, certainly not helped by the amount of the 3 car sets out of service.

That's not to say the Mk4 performance at the moment isn't dire, its clearly unacceptable the last 2 weeks. Having 2 sets out of service with faults that's causing them to be out of service has hammered availability.

Today should have had 3.5 diagrams. Unfortunately one of the full diagrams has become a .5 with 1W13 and return being lost but the Holyhead covered whilst the afternoon planned half diagram was lost due to no Crews available for the prep to get it off depot. Tomorrow should be back to 4.
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Thank you for the explanation

It is also good seeing that there has been some more thought given to the Marches. Previously, we saw 150s going to Manchester while 197s stayed on the Cheltenham-Maestegs.

All of us who use the line regularly hope that there can be a solution, one way or another, that can get towards a minimum 4-car service.

Although it is hard sometimes when the train is overcrowded or delayed and turned short, this was a maximum 3-car service for a long time and notwithstanding the transfer issues, we are now in the best period of Marches trains I have known.
 
BillStampy

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Topological said:
It is also good seeing that there has been some more thought given to the Marches. Previously, we saw 150s going to Manchester while 197s stayed on the Cheltenham-Maestegs.
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Weirdly, 197020 and 197019 are working as a pair on the Ebbws to Maestegs today...!
 
37052 xb mr

37052 xb mr

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Extra set today
67012 Set HD04
(Loco CDF end on Marches)
1V94 08.19 Holyhead - Cardiff 13.51
1W94 18.14 Cardiff - Holyhead 23.30
 
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BillStampy

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Bridge strike at Cwmbran could possibly affect today's diagrams, although disruption is only expected until 1pm as of right now.
 
Topological

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Hope that won't stop the set reaching Manchester. Am theoretically on the 18:30 tonight so would like a service to run. I do not mind a 197, but a Wilmslow spin would be annoying.
 
Welshguy1048

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Looks like 1W96 has got a problem.

Realtime Trains | 1W96 1722 Cardiff Central to Holyhead | 11/11/2025

Real-time train running information for 1W96 1722 departure from Cardiff Central to Holyhead on 11/11/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
www.realtimetrains.co.uk www.realtimetrains.co.uk

It was last reported passing Sandycroft at 2033 - nothing since....

Anyone know what has happened ?

EDIT - it's on the move again now.

Dave
 
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S

sd0733

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Welshguy1048 said:
It was last reported passing Sandycroft at 2033 - nothing since....

Anyone know what has happened ?

EDIT - it's on the move again now.

Dave
Click to expand...
Bridge bash in the Queensferry area of Chester. It was the first train over so had to report and run at 5mph.
 
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