TfW 1st class upgrades

[dk1]

Officially the rule appears to be that you should ask first.

However in my limited (one trip) experience you do indeed just sit down and when the guard comes round you have the choice of paying £20 (£10 weekends) or finding somewhere else to sit.

Thanks very much. I thought of asking initially but it’s dependent on where they are. Might be busy on a Friday but I’ll give it a go.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Nov 2025 ==

TfW's website says you need to ask the conductor first, but I'm sure people on here have reported just taking a seat in 1st and paying when the conductor appears.

Many thanks.

 

[trainophile]

I've been on them where the guard has walked through the train advising standing passengers that anyone could sit in standard plus and that there were plenty of seats available. No-one moved. There's no helping some people

But did he make it plain that there wouldn't be a price to pay? The very fact of referring to it as Standard Plus would automatically make most people think it's on the same lines as Avanti's Standard Premium offering.

 

[Topological]

But did he make it plain that there wouldn't be a price to pay? The very fact of referring to it as Standard Plus would automatically make most people think it's on the same lines as Avanti's Standard Premium offering.

Yes.

I really believe the branding needs removing and any mention of Standard Premium removing.

However, the seats will still be there and that will always make some people wary of sitting there.

I was in Standard Premium Monday when a shortage of Mk4 meant 1W11 was a 197. Even as the train filled towards Manchester it took time before people filled Standard Premium.

It is probably a good thing that TfW now convey more than 3 carriages worth of passengers into Manchester. It is not that long ago that we had 150s.

 

[trainophile]

The last few Chester services I've been on have been 2-coach 197s, both for South Wales and Manchester Picc. I understood (we were told) that the new trains would only be operated as 2+3s or 3s, with the 2s purely as add-ons for busy services (which most trains through Chester usually are). I didn't think we'd be back to the old overcrowded days so soon. Never any explanation or apology either.

 

[Topological]

The last few Chester services I've been on have been 2-coach 197s, both for South Wales and Manchester Picc. I understood (we were told) that the new trains would only be operated as 2+3s or 3s, with the 2s purely as add-ons for busy services (which most trains through Chester usually are). I didn't think we'd be back to the old overcrowded days so soon. Never any explanation or apology either.

Issues:

1. Mk4s are useless. With 7 sets to cover 5 diagrams there are often 197s required to cover
2. Delays in the Valleys. 197s are on routes that 231s are supposed to do because the 231s are on routes that will get the new tram-trains
3. Lack of capacity in the depot. Plenty of new trains sat in storage because they cant keep the full set in use at any one time
4. Reliability of the 197s themeselves.

Solutions... not so easy.

 

[dk1]

Issues:

1. Mk4s are useless. With 7 sets to cover 5 diagrams there are often 197s required to cover
2. Delays in the Valleys. 197s are on routes that 231s are supposed to do because the 231s are on routes that will get the new tram-trains
3. Lack of capacity in the depot. Plenty of new trains sat in storage because they cant keep the full set in use at any one time
4. Reliability of the 197s themeselves.

Solutions... not so easy.

I’m half expecting the 15:03 off Newport to be a 197 v 67 on Friday so will take an alternate route to Manchester if that’s the case. Not that I’ve got anything against the dmu but I’m already going out of the way from Norwich.

 

[AdamWW]

Thanks very much. I thought of asking initially but it’s dependent on where they are. Might be busy on a Friday but I’ll give it a go.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Nov 2025 ==


Many thanks.

I think you can purchase them ahead of time on Seatfrog for the same price as on board (including the Seatfrog admin fee).

 

[Topological]

I’m half expecting the 15:03 off Newport to be a 197 v 67 on Friday so will take an alternate route to Manchester if that’s the case. Not that I’ve got anything against the dmu but I’m already going out of the way from Norwich.

15:03 has been a Mk4 when others have not. It becomes the 18:30 from Manchester which I take most weeks. (17:30 is too busy and 19:30 is a single unit) For a long time that diagram was a regular for the chop when there were reliability issues, but more recently it has been the one 2 hours earlier that got cut and the set has stayed in Cardiff to form the 14:50* (the exact minutes vary so I think of them as 50)

 

[Starmill]

The last few Chester services I've been on have been 2-coach 197s, both for South Wales and Manchester Picc. I understood (we were told) that the new trains would only be operated as 2+3s or 3s, with the 2s purely as add-ons for busy services (which most trains through Chester usually are). I didn't think we'd be back to the old overcrowded days so soon. Never any explanation or apology either.

I don't think that's what was intended at all, the Conwy Valley is a two car for example.

 

[dk1]

I think you can purchase them ahead of time on Seatfrog for the same price as on board (including the Seatfrog admin fee).

Cheers!!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Nov 2025 ==

15:03 has been a Mk4 when others have not. It becomes the 18:30 from Manchester which I take most weeks. (17:30 is too busy and 19:30 is a single unit) For a long time that diagram was a regular for the chop when there were reliability issues, but more recently it has been the one 2 hours earlier that got cut and the set has stayed in Cardiff to form the 14:50* (the exact minutes vary so I think of them as 50)

It was 197117 today.

 

[Topological]

It was 197117 today.

That would have been cosy on the northbound as it is a popular arrival into Manchester.

TfW do like to make me look stupid

It is one of the 197/1s that has Standard Premium though.

 

[dk1]

That would have been cosy on the northbound as it is a popular arrival into Manchester.

TfW do like to make me look stupid

It is one of the 197/1s that has Standard Premium though.

I’d probably not bother with that. Would just be happy in standard but will go a different way if I see it’s not a 67 in good time. planning on getting the 12:13 or 12:49 ex-Paddington so plenty of time.

 

[Topological]

I’d probably not bother with that. Would just be happy in standard but will go a different way if I see it’s not a 67 in good time. planning on getting the 12:13 or 12:49 ex-Paddington so plenty of time.

Check those too in case they are only 5-car.

 

[dk1]

Check those too in case they are only 5-car.

I will thanks. I noticed the that today.

 

[Krokodil]

I don't think that's what was intended at all, the Conwy Valley is a two car for example.

A bigger example (as that single diagram could be viewed as an exception) the Liverpools were always planned to be two cars between Chester and Llandudno/Cardiff (original intention was to combine them there and run a four car into Lime St but the Cardiff portion is shelved now).

 

[Topological]

A bigger example (as that single diagram could be viewed as an exception) the Liverpools were always planned to be two cars between Chester and Llandudno/Cardiff (original intention was to combine them there and run a four car into Lime St but the Cardiff portion is shelved now).

That would have been additional services rather than having something remain/become 2-car?

 

[Krokodil]

That would have been additional services rather than having something remain/become 2-car?

For Llandudno it would be a replacement for the existing service, and I don't believe that trainophile differentiated between new services and existing ones.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Nov 2025 ==

Just remembered too that the plan was for the Birmingham services to be two carriages between Shrewsbury and Llandudno Junction. Not sure whether that still stands - when it was promulgated a few years ago (before it was cut back from Holyhead) the reaction from frontline staff and Controllers alike was "this is madness".

 

[DelW]

I don't think that's what was intended at all, the Conwy Valley is a two car for example.

I read the post you quoted as referring specifically to Marches services through Chester. IIRC those were supposed to be 3-car sets as a minimum.

I was on some very overcrowded 2-car trains on the southern Marches a week or so back. I think TfW have a lot of sets OOU at present, possibly leaf fall effects.

 

[Starmill]

I read the post you quoted as referring specifically to Marches services through Chester. IIRC those were supposed to be 3-car sets as a minimum.

I was on some very overcrowded 2-car trains on the southern Marches a week or so back. I think TfW have a lot of sets OOU at present, possibly leaf fall effects.

Ah yes, perhaps you are right there. And yes 197 reliability is certainly not what it could be. Let's hope in 2-3 years there's not a 195-esque drop off...