DSB Talgo - start of passenger operation

[Bletchleyite]

Makes a change if they've built them to align the windows in second and not first though...

Class 397 does that too. And 159.

 

[MarkyT]

And the wheel layout is presumably what enables a low floor train without ramps or steps all over the place.

Each wheelset is split, with two separate wheel discs and no through axle joining them. Thus, the gangway floor can be lower than the wheeltops it passes between. Talgo can also provide 550mm continuous floor height instead of the 760mm seen in the Danish and German trains.

 

[43096]

A few more photos from yesterday!

Was really impressed overall. Bit of vibration at speed but nothing unpleasant.

The main interior point (I’m reminded of this whilst sat in an IC3 with its comfy armchair seating and headrests!) is the lack of seat cushioning particularly on the headrest, it could do with a cushioned inlay like the DB Talgo sets will be getting.

I see they managed to find just about the grubbiest Vectron in the fleet to do the honours!

 

[Gag Halfrunt]

Apart from the ends, though I don't recall seeing this arrangement with proper bogies at each end on previous Talgo coaching rakes.

The Talgo Series 8 push-pull sets built for the USA have a bogie at the front of the driving car.

File:Amtrak 9710.jpg - Wikimedia Commons

commons.wikimedia.org

(Photo shows a Talgo Series 8 set operated by Amtrak Cascades.)

 

[MrJeeves]

I am quite curius to learn where the rake for the aforementioned service is to be sourced from. In fact, no DSB Talgo set has been spotted today at DB Fernverkehr's depot at Hamburg-Eidelstedt.
Either the rake is ferried from Denmark in the next 20 hours - or the rake is parked at some other spot in Hamburg.

It is weird that DSB has been communicating that EC 397 (Monday at 14:11 from Copenhagen) would be the international inaugural service, when another service EC 396 (Monday at 10:53 from Hamburg) departs even before that.

A good indicator is that Rejseplanen shows the service with "Toget har lav indstigning" ("The train has low boarding") which also showed for the inaugural Fredericia workings. DSB certainly think the train will be a Talgo set.

 

[andersj]

I am quite curius to learn where the rake for the aforementioned service is to be sourced from. In fact, no DSB Talgo set has been spotted today at DB Fernverkehr's depot at Hamburg-Eidelstedt.
Either the rake is ferried from Denmark in the next 20 hours - or the rake is parked at some other spot in Hamburg.

It is weird that DSB has been communicating that EC 397 (Monday at 14:11 from Copenhagen) would be the international inaugural service, when another service EC 396 (Monday at 10:53 from Hamburg) departs even before that.

DSB is still selling reservations in a Talgo train for EC 396 tomorrow. A test booking Padborg-Copenhagen just gave me coach 24, seat 31.

The departure board for Padborg also show a Talgo train, albeit with the locomotive in the wrong end (DSB currently have some teething problems with a new staff and rolling stock management system)
Source for the departure boards: www.mittog.dk

 

[doc7austin]

Yes, all the reservation/display data indicate the running of a DSB Talgo on today's EC 396 service from Hamburg. We will get the answer in less than 2 hours - and see what is arriving at the station platform in Hamburg Hbf.

 

[MrJeeves]

We will get the answer in less than 2 hours - and see what is arriving at the station platform in Hamburg Hbf.

So...?

 

[jamesontheroad]

Both trains ran from/to Hamburg as scheduled, and some of the first trip reports are out now on YouTube.

This one shows the southbound train (and others) at Kolding.

 

[doc7austin]

The Copenhagen-Hamburg inaugural journey.

An IC3 and IC1 can open all its doors in Padborg - the Talgo only one.

 

[stadler]

DSB should have just ordered extra Alsthom Coradia Stream IC5 units instead of an order of Talgo stock. They look far more suitable. I do wonder what the point was of ordering two separate intercity fleets. Surely it would have been cheaper and better from a maintenance perspective to just have entirely IC5 trains.

 

[Bletchleyite]

An IC3 and IC1 can open all its doors in Padborg - the Talgo only one.

But you do get level boarding at a proper height platform. Presumably at some point Padborg's platform will be raised and then the situation will be better than an IC1.

It's interesting they open only one door there, as there are UK platforms (such as Tal y Cafn) which appear to have a bigger step than that but all doors are released with the wooden steps just there for those who want them. Different policies in different countries of course, and the demand there doesn't look high.

 

[NCT]

I'd have thought Coradia Stream also had level boarding (if the DSB ones are similar to the NS ones)? There are just more internal steps.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'd have thought Coradia Stream also had level boarding (if the DSB ones are similar to the NS ones)? There are just more internal steps.

There are of course multiple designs of low floor rolling stock, each of which has its own compromises.

 

[AdamWW]

I'd have thought Coradia Stream also had level boarding (if the DSB ones are similar to the NS ones)? There are just more internal steps.

Certainly this is a problem with the Romanian Coradia Streams.

There is no provision for platforms lower than the floor height - which somehow includes many of the platforms in the main station in Bucharest.

So whereas the high floor stock has grab handles to help the less mobile get themselves up the steps, with a Stream they're faced with a step sticking out above the platform and having to hold onto a fellow passenger to get up onto it.

 

[stadler]

You would think that DSB could have simply asked Talgo to incorporate a sliding step when these were ordered. It looks like there is space under the door for this. It could either be a fold out one or a slide out one. They obviously knew that not all platforms were high enough so this would have been a sensible thing to ask for.

 

[Gloster]

You would think that DSB could have simply asked Talgo to incorporate a sliding step when these were ordered. It looks like there is space under the door for this. It could either be a fold out one or a slide out one. They obviously knew that not all platforms were high enough so this would have been a sensible thing to ask for.

I suspect that DSB are very cautious about sliding steps. They were one of the worst problems with the notorious IC4. I also doubt that DSB is keen to alter platform heights as they completely rebuilt many platforms only a few years ago.

 

[jamesontheroad]

In Padborg, it is often an operational necessity to open only one door, since the Danish police use the stop to conduct a sweep of the train, checking passengers' documents.

 

[JonasB]

DSB should have just ordered extra Alsthom Coradia Stream IC5 units instead of an order of Talgo stock. They look far more suitable. I do wonder what the point was of ordering two separate intercity fleets. Surely it would have been cheaper and better from a maintenance perspective to just have entirely IC5 trains.

Capacity? The Talgos have a lot more seats.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I suspect that DSB are very cautious about sliding steps. They were one of the worst problems with the notorious IC4. I also doubt that DSB is keen to alter platform heights as they completely rebuilt many platforms only a few years ago.

If they've ordered a new fleet to a specific platform height, I think it's reasonable to assume they are going to bring at least some platforms up to that height, particularly ones like Padborg that are near enough at sleeper level.

 

[Gloster]

If they've ordered a new fleet to a specific platform height, I think it's reasonable to assume they are going to bring at least some platforms up to that height, particularly ones like Padborg that are near enough at sleeper level.

The platforms were standardised, often raised, for the IC4, some of which will remain in use until they can be dispensed with, which should start in 2027, possibly late 2026, once enough of the new trains are in service. Their predecessors, the IC3, will go next.

 

[andersj]

Standard platform height in Denmark is 55 cm. The platforms in Padborg are old and only 26 cm. They will be rebuild to 76 cm in the coming years as German trains (Coradia Max) will take over local services up to Tinglev in December 2027 (RE7 will be extended from Flensburg to Tinglev via Padborg)

The Talgos have a 76 cm boarding height because they are a direct copy of the ICE L.

Regarding the IC5 / Coradia Stream, that was some kind of political/ideological decision based on reducing risks and getting a homogeneous fleet. It would be very expensive to have all 153 IC5 units equipped to run in both Denmark and Germany.

The best decision would probably had been to collaborate with either DB or CD for a joint fleet of ICE L or ComfortJet units.

 

[nwales58]

An IC3 and IC1 can open all its doors in Padborg - the Talgo only one.

By coincidence, at Freilassing units from Salzburg only seem to be able to open one door, until border police have finished walking through the train.

 

[jamesontheroad]

And now, overnight, the video I was waiting for, from DSB employee and Danish YouTuber Kenny. A very detailed and positive review. English subtitles should appear by default.

On the subject of the platform height at Padborg, Kenny says that Banedanmark have no plans to raise the platform there, so it remains a permanent solution to board/disembark via one door in car 18.

 

[Tinginys]

What does Kenny say about the elephant in the room - ride quality?

 

[MrJeeves]

What does Kenny say about the elephant in the room - ride quality?

If you watch the video, you'll see:

3:20
On the stretch between Copenhagen and Ringsted, the train sneaks up to 200 km/h.

3:26
But you can't feel it at all.

I'd disagree with his assesssment, at least on the cantilevered 1st class tables for four.

 

[jamesontheroad]

What does Kenny say about the elephant in the room - ride quality?

Refers to the fact that, on the first day, the coffee vending machine was free and that it was quite possible to walk through the train without a lid on the coffee and not spill it. He only rode it as far as Padborg, so perhaps the ride quality differs in Germany.

 

[doc7austin]

Refers to the fact that, on the first day, the coffee vending machine was free and that it was quite possible to walk through the train without a lid on the coffee and not spill it.

I think this was a joke - right ? The coffee vending was def. not free on the first day.
My observations on the DSB Talgo inaugural journey Copenhagen-Hamburg:
- very smooth ride at 200 km/h on the Copenhagen-Ringsted high-speed railway
- braking action was very rough
- two First Class were deserted

Copenhagen Railway Station:

 

[doc7austin]

First Class cabin (largely empty):

 

[doc7austin]

Padborg - border station of Denmark: