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Yet Another Dire Day On The North Downs Line

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Paul180

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So, the North Downs Line closure has been in force for a week now, with no further comment here - can we assume that the arrangements are running smoothly?
I was only at work for two days this week (Mon + Tue) it went well apart from Monday moving the driver had been given the incorrect route plan and missed out Dorking West (carried on in to the town centre instead of going up Ranmore Road).

I was quite surprised that there was a controller at Dorking West (he wasn't due to be there all week and did not know if there would be some there to replace him) I was speaking to him and he said that there was extra bus / coach running during the peek times but there are not on the time table.

The biggest issue I found was in the afternoon the train was getting delayed at Guildford back towards Reading because of on board staff getting delayed, (some of the guards are based at Redhill and they are changing over at Guildford and where getting delayed getting to Guildford) the bus where running abut 20 min late in the afternoon but that is understandable and I can't really complaining that.

I see how it goes next week as I am in for four days i've taken Friday off.
 
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Bill Badger

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So, the North Downs Line closure has been in force for a week now, with no further comment here - can we assume that the arrangements are running smoothly?
From personal experience remarkably so!

Three journeys on the train from Farnborough to Guildford all spot on time and RRB from Guildford to Gatwick in the morning peak left bang on time and arrived at the Airport 20 minutes early. I was on train the Haywards Heath, before I was suppose to supposed to be at the airport!
 

zoneking

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I have used the service 3 times from Gomshall. Once there was a bus, and other times coaches. The route includes some very narrow roads, even though they are A roads. The coach had to mount a pavement or scrape trees and bushes. The Betchworth bus stop is not near the station. The driver shouted 'Betchworth', got no response, so did not bother stopping, he was running late. I think very few people use Betchworth. The route now goes to Dorking main station rather than stopping on the A24 near Deepdene, this is more convenient. As no money is taken or tickets requested, I expect people travelling from stations like mine, with no ticket machines, would be travelling for free.
 

Flange Squeal

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It’s being reported on The Guildford Dragon local news website that Jessie’s Seat has been accidentally felled during the current works on the North Downs Line.

Historic Chilworth Chicken Memorial Topiary Accidentally Felled by Railway Upgrade Contractors
Published on: 26 Sep, 2025
Updated on: 26 Sep, 2025

A historic topiary beside the railway line between Chilworth and Gomshall has been “accidentally felled” by contractors working for Network Rail during this week’s upgrades to the signalling and level crossings on the North Downs Line.


Jessie’s Seat memorial topiary, fondly known as the ‘Chilworth Chicken’ by local train drivers.
The box hedging topiary memorial named Jessie’s Seat, that also goes by the name of the Chilworth Chicken, is well known locally and loved, especially by railway enthusiasts.

It is in memory of a guard who, in 1892, died when the goods train he was traveling in was involved in a crash near the site where the topiary stood.


In a statement today (Friday, September 26) Network Rail said: “We’re incredibly sorry for the accidental removal of the Chilworth Chicken memorial during recent work on the North Downs Line. It was a genuine mistake, and we take full responsibility.

“The memorial, a tribute to railway guard Henry Wicks who died in a crash over 130 years ago, had lost its shape and was mistaken for a shrub. It was removed for safety reasons, as it was blocking signs that remind train drivers to sound their horn near crossings.

“We’re working closely with our contractor, Coombes, to replant the memorial and are speaking with local stakeholders to choose a safer, more visible location. We will also be installing a plaque to honour its historic and local importance. We understand how much this means to the community and are committed to putting things right.”

The timing of the felling of the topiary is most unfortunate especially during 2025, it being the year of hundreds of celebrations and events of Railway 200. This marks the 200th anniversary of the opening of the Stockton & Darlington Railway, widely regarded as the birth of the modern railway. The actual date of that first steam-hauled fare-paying passenger journey on a public railway was September 27, 1825!

In February 2020, a packed special train, organised by Great Western Railway, marked the 128th anniversary of the railway accident on the line near Chilworth and a salute to the memorial.

In the Dragon’s report of that special train to commemorate the accident, we wrote that the topiary was named after Henry Wicks’s daughter-in-law, Jessie Wicks, who was said to be very fond of him.


Sir Peter Hendy, the then chairman of Network Rail (left), with with one of the volunteers who have been carefully looking after Jessie’s Seat, pictured on the train organised by GWR to remember the fatal crash on February 29, 1892.
On the train that day was the then chairman of Network Rail, Sir Peter Hendy. He became a life peer in 2022, and in 2024 was appointed as a minister of state in the Department for Transport, upon which he left Network Rail.

Continuing the Dragon’s 2020 story, we noted the memorial topiary was a hardy box hedge buxus balearica, and shaped as a guard’s seat for “Guard Wick’s spirit’” to sit upon for “tranquil eternity”.

Perched upon the topiary seat was the shape of a pheasant which has inspired local train drivers to give it the good-natured nickname of the Chilworth Chicken.

We noted that over the years it had been maintained by the railway’s permanent way gangs. Since 1981 the work had been undertaken by volunteers from the local operations staff supported by British Rail, then Railtrack and now Network Rail.

Of the railway crash, it happened on Monday night, February 29, 1892 to a goods train consisting of 49 wagons, two brake vans and two steam locomotives.

With no continuous braking system throughout the train, it divided at some point. The rear 40 wagons caught up with the front section on a steep downhill section at the location of Jessie’s Seat.

Guard Henry Wicks was instantly killed and his body was thrown clear of the wreckage. It was found the next morning on the embankment.

It took four days to completely reopen the line.


Jassie’s Seat photographed in 1968 by Alan Edwards. Courtesy of Ben Darnton.
Ben Darnton, a railway enthusiast and owner of Ben’s Collectors Records shop in Tunsgate, Guildford, said today: “A terrible mistake on Network Rail’s part and I’m relieved they are admitting full responsibility and are working to put the memorial and a new commemorative plaque in place as soon as possible.

“I was honoured to be invited on to GWR’s Jesse’s Seat Anniversary train back in 2020 and was privileged to sit next to [the then] Network Rail chairman Sir Peter Hendy on the outbound journey from Guildford to Redhill which stopped at Jesse’s Seat.”

Retired train driver, senior instructor and South West Train’s training design manager Geoff Burch, added: “As a driver (and fireman) working over this line for many years, (working trains without headlights that modern trains now possess) to say that the topiary was removed for safety reasons as it was blocking signs that remind drivers to sound their horn near crossings is absolute rubbish.

“It was also a landmark for drivers which has now been removed.

“A driver signs a route card which ensures he / she knows exactly where the signs are and when to blow the horn.

“I also find it an absolute disgrace that as Network Rail had possession of this line for two weeks that no one in charge of this section of line had bothered to reshape this important memorial topiary or even worse, hadn’t bothered to inform the contractors beforehand that the topiary memorial existed.”

In the Dragon’s story, Guildford to Gatwick Line To Close For a Fortnight For Major Upgrades, published on September 8, 2025, it included that buses will replace trains between Guildford and Gatwick Airport for two weeks during the second half of September so that signalling and level crossing upgrades can be carried out.

And that Network Rail engineers will install 16 new signal sets, the railway’s equivalent of traffic lights, between Shalford and Gomshall.

Additionally, engineers will upgrade four level crossings: Chilworth, Tangley, Brook, and Burrows Lane.

Today, Friday, September 26, Network Rail’s press office said the work was on schedule to be completed on time.
Source: https://guildford-dragon.com/histor...ntally-felled-by-railway-upgrade-contractors/
 

Paul180

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Retired train driver, senior instructor and South West Train’s training design manager Geoff Burch, added: “As a driver (and fireman) working over this line for many years, (working trains without headlights that modern trains now possess) to say that the topiary was removed for safety reasons as it was blocking signs that remind drivers to sound their horn near crossings is absolute rubbish.
I did't think that there was any crossings near Jessie’s Seat, so I call this rubbish as well.
 

Deepgreen

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It’s being reported on The Guildford Dragon local news website that Jessie’s Seat has been accidentally felled during the current works on the North Downs Line.


Source: https://guildford-dragon.com/histor...ntally-felled-by-railway-upgrade-contractors/
A few years ago it was sprayed with weedkiller anyway, but seemed to bounce back. It takes a very special level of intelligence by anyone coming across an obvious topiary and simply chopping it down without checking. Another 'cock up' destroys a piece of history - well done all!

BTW, the line is supposed to reopen tomorrow so I 'cycled down my lane (Burrows Lane) to see how the crossing looked after the many (non-continuous) months of works! Quite smart, although the lane is also closed now with Thames Water working on yet another leak, as well as the crossing closure!20250927_135913 (1).jpeg
 

Wilts Wanderer

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Call it what it actually is, it’s a barefaced lie. There are no lineside signs within the immediate vicinity of Jesse’s Seat and if anything, removing it has eliminated a very useful landmark for drivers of Down trains braking for the Chilworth stop.
 

Deepgreen

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I did't think that there was any crossings near Jessie’s Seat, so I call this rubbish as well.
Of course it's rubbish - and NR have admitted their error anyway, so I don't see how anyone could claim otherwise.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

I have used the service 3 times from Gomshall. Once there was a bus, and other times coaches. The route includes some very narrow roads, even though they are A roads. The coach had to mount a pavement or scrape trees and bushes. The Betchworth bus stop is not near the station. The driver shouted 'Betchworth', got no response, so did not bother stopping, he was running late. I think very few people use Betchworth. The route now goes to Dorking main station rather than stopping on the A24 near Deepdene, this is more convenient. As no money is taken or tickets requested, I expect people travelling from stations like mine, with no ticket machines, would be travelling for free.
I used to live at Betchworth and was often the only commuter for the 'peak' eastbound train (see 'selfie' photo, from 2013)! It is the quietest station on the line and the second-quietest in the county. However, it does see moderate use off-peak. I now live at the comparatively hectic Gomshall! Shouting out a station name on an RRB doesn't take account of hearing impairments, but hey-ho.
9465148968_1be985b310_k.jpg

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

The replacement bus situation for the 2-week closure 15th to 27th Sept is so appalling for local travellers who might as well be told not to travel.

GWR are only running replacement buses hourly, unlike the normal train service which is half-hourly. The journey time from Redhill to Guildford is extended to 1 hour 26 minutes (from 32) with, as said before, frequency halved.

They are running an express bus from Gatwick to Guildford, (it often routes right past Reigate Station) but refuse to have such a fast bus to pick up any local passengers.

GWR are basically saying to school kids and commuters who regularly use their service to not to bother turning up for two weeks in mid-term.

How are rail companies allowed to get away with this behaviour!
Agreed! We were on holiday, as it happened, for much of the closure - we travelled out to Gatwick by train before the closure but the return had to be a taxi as the option of train then a change to a slow bus with heavy luggage was unappealing. Local passengers were effectively abandoned.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Well, the line seems to have reopened today as planned, but several trains so far SEEM to have encountered problems at the re-signalled section, losing several minutes on the reopened section from Guildford to Reigate. Of course it could be coincidental, but I wonder if there is a connection - have drivers been trained (do they even need to be?) on the new signalling positions (albeit with their only slight moves)?
 
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Snow1964

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GWR have released latest 4 weeks performance data

EF09 (North Downs Route) has massive 11.2% (over 1 in 9) trains cancelled

Of the trains that ran, less than half (48.2%) were on time.

They even managed to short form some services which takes some doing when only a single unit is booked, basically found an even smaller unit.

That matches quite closely my personal delays on the route. On a plus side I have claimed about 41% of my fares back over the last 12 months.
 

FenMan

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GWR have released latest 4 weeks performance data

EF09 (North Downs Route) has massive 11.2% (over 1 in 9) trains cancelled

Of the trains that ran, less than half (48.2%) were on time.

They even managed to short form some services which takes some doing when only a single unit is booked, basically found an even smaller unit.


I'd like to know how the cancellation figure is calculated.

Does it include terminating services short at Redhill?
Also does it include stock running fast back to Reading, omitting stops en route, to get back on to the timetable?
 

izvor

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Performance on the NDL seems to have plummeted again over the last few weeks. Seems that sometimes every other train is cancelled over a period of 2 or more hours. The last train (in either direction) has been a common victim too. Presumably if the last train down to Gatwick is cancelled, the first one back to Reading next morning must be too. How long can this go on? Will LGW intervene, given their commitment to increase public transport ridership to Gatwick Airport?
 

JonathanH

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Will LGW intervene, given their commitment to increase public transport ridership to Gatwick Airport?
I would imagine that they are powerless to intervene. The number of people travelling to / from Gatwick on the last North Downs Line trains is low double figures in any case.
The last train (in either direction) has been a common victim too. Presumably if the last train down to Gatwick is cancelled, the first one back to Reading next morning must be too.
Yes. First one back to Reading is cancelled if the last Gatwick bound service is cancelled as it means there is no train at the eastern end overnight.
 

Nicholas Lewis

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Performance on the NDL seems to have plummeted again over the last few weeks. Seems that sometimes every other train is cancelled over a period of 2 or more hours. The last train (in either direction) has been a common victim too. Presumably if the last train down to Gatwick is cancelled, the first one back to Reading next morning must be too. How long can this go on? Will LGW intervene, given their commitment to increase public transport ridership to Gatwick Airport?
Unit failure yesterday compounded with NDL blocked again West of Guildford left it on a 2hrly cycle all day.
 
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I am surprised no one on here mentioned the disaster that was the Reading to Wokingham block last weekend and Monday. Service was only hourly from Wokingham to Gatwick but that still had crew related cancellations.

On monday 27th the 2000 to Gatwick was stuck at Wokingham with no driver, causing all the Waterloos to be cancelled as the only platform accessible, platform 2, was blocked. It was eventually moved at around 2130, allowing services to resume.
 

Bald Rick

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Will LGW intervene

The chances of them successfully intervening are broadly similar as GWRs chances of intervening in Gatwick’s “on time”* performance of flights.

*“on time“ being within 15 minutes of schedule. September arrivals: 54.7%. Compare to GWRs…
 

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On monday 27th the 2000 to Gatwick was stuck at Wokingham with no driver, causing all the Waterloos to be cancelled as the only platform accessible, platform 2, was blocked. It was eventually moved at around 2130, allowing services to resume.
I think there's a siding at Wokingham; one wonders whether the driver who brought the train in could have moved it there, but presumably there might be a reason why not.
 

DelW

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On monday 27th the 2000 to Gatwick was stuck at Wokingham with no driver, causing all the Waterloos to be cancelled as the only platform accessible, platform 2, was blocked. It was eventually moved at around 2130, allowing services to resume.
I wondered what went wrong on the Monday evening. I very narrowly avoided being stuck at Wokingham for three hours, having just caught the 1903 towards Gatwick from an RRB that wasn't shown in the timetable. Hopefully anyone heading for a flight went via London instead.
 
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I think there's a siding at Wokingham; one wonders whether the driver who brought the train in could have moved it there, but presumably there might be a reason why not.
I believe by the time anyone realised, the driver who brought it in had gone.
 

izvor

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The chances of them successfully intervening are broadly similar as GWRs chances of intervening in Gatwick’s “on time”* performance of flights.
Since I posted the service seems to have miraculously recovered, so clearly GWR are listening to me rather than Gatwick Airport! :D
 

KT530

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NDL reliability and punctuality nothing short of abysmal, has been noticeably worse since the 2 TPH service to Gatwick, with turnarounds at Redhill being too short and no resilience whatsoever in the schedule at the Redhill / Gatwick end

Too many trains squeezed in that works on paper but not really in practice
 

FenMan

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NDL reliability and punctuality nothing short of abysmal, has been noticeably worse since the 2 TPH service to Gatwick, with turnarounds at Redhill being too short and no resilience whatsoever in the schedule at the Redhill / Gatwick end

Too many trains squeezed in that works on paper but not really in practice
Not sure I agree with your analysis.

The 165s have more than enough oomph to keep to the timetable. The former 1tph to Gatwick timetable also had fast turnarounds at each of the route.

Given the pinch points en route and at Gatwick I suspect there is no way around that without conjuring up extra units and crews that don't exist.

I see the service being undermined by units being out of commission, crew shortages and infrastructure issues. The first two are GWR's responsibility and I'd welcome being told what is being done to fix them. Regarding the latter, Network Rail seem to have doing more than patch and mend lately, so I'm hoping to see sustained improvement on that front.
 

KT530

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Since 2 TPH to Gatwick 1 minute was removed from the turnaround time at Redhill - now 3 mins vice 4.

The ‘one in one out’ system at Redhill means a late running one has a knock on effect for the next
 
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There are nearly constant adverts for Reading based conductors recently, so from that point of view GWR are trying. Drivers, which has been a problem the last few weeks, is obviously a completely different situation.

As for reliability of the trains, the less said about the Turbos the better. Not helped of course by having not spare unit during the peak.
 

Nicholas Lewis

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Since 2 TPH to Gatwick 1 minute was removed from the turnaround time at Redhill - now 3 mins vice 4.

The ‘one in one out’ system at Redhill means a late running one has a knock on effect for the next
Regularly observe crews at both Gatwick and Redhill get in and out in 3mins and are to be applauded for getting on with changing ends, setup and ready to go. Not quite F1 tyre changing but this service group must have one of the tightest turn rounds across the UKs timetable.
 

izvor

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Regularly observe crews at both Gatwick and Redhill get in and out in 3mins and are to be applauded for getting on with changing ends, setup and ready to go. Not quite F1 tyre changing but this service group must have one of the tightest turn rounds across the UKs timetable.
If only the lazy sods would run, they could cut it down to 2 minutes. :rolleyes:

(Seriously, agreed they are pretty slick)
 

Hugo Smith

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There are nearly constant adverts for Reading based conductors recently, so from that point of view GWR are trying. Drivers, which has been a problem the last few weeks, is obviously a completely different situation.

As for reliability of the trains, the less said about the Turbos the better. Not helped of course by having not spare unit during the peak.

Apparently the NDL service is going up to 3TPH which i just don't see happening
 
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