Yet Another Dire Day On The North Downs Line

[Wilts Wanderer]

Putting Gatwick to Guildford into the National Rail journey planner for Sunday 7th reveals only the 1hr 40min buses, which are indeed ‘stopping’ buses via the A25 - my mistake. No faster buses are shown.

Maybe the fast buses on the 7th will run unadvertised. Customers for Gatwick directed to them at Guildford and essentially arrive at destination early? This is often done with RRS and the unadvertised nature provides flexibility to redeploy vehicles to match demand on the day.

 

[Bishopstone]

Maybe the fast buses on the 7th will run unadvertised. Customers for Gatwick directed to them at Guildford and essentially arrive at destination early? This is often done with RRS and the unadvertised nature provides flexibility to redeploy vehicles to match demand on the day.

A consequence of fast buses not being advertised - if indeed they will run on the 7th - is that at certain times each hour it's suggested intending passengers travel via Clapham Junction, at a higher fare - albeit only £2.10 difference on an undiscounted single. (Though I wouldn't buy the higher priced ticket if the railway put me through this inconvenience.)

I'm not a fan of unadvertised, pot luck buses - either they're running and timetabled, or they're not. By all means add some extras if customer numbers exceed forecasts.

 

[Farnborough]

So yesterday we had a points failure...
... this morning a track failure at Ash - trains both ways cancelled

 

[Deepgreen]

Deeper question should be why do they need so long to commission a LXing? Barriers only needed 27hrs a decade or so back but that was double shifting it. The new signals are just relocations and all run off lineside controls so its not as if its an interlocking change.

As your nearby a wonder up the lane to see what hours they work should be revealing!!

I also wouldn't mind if they just blitzed everything else on these blockades that was the justification for them but they don't. So after this blockade almost every Sunday the service is reduced to hourly as well as some Saturdays (maybe be nothing to do with the works). There is also modifications to many late services over the five weeks after the blockade finishes. Then there is sat/sun + sat/sun/mon Reading-Wokingham closures in October buses to Nth camp or Guildford.

I agree - the amount of time that has been spent on my little local AHB (Burrows Lane) is staggering! The new signals have been in place (covered) for many months. I know that four crossings are being converted at the same time (with the associated signalling commissioning), but I have no idea if any other works on the line will be done - my gut feeling is that there is little co-ordination of works and that we will see yet another blockade before long.

I am away for a good part of the closure, and we were hoping to be able to get the train back (from holiday) from Gatwick, but a combination of train and RRB(s) will be a pain, at best.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Sep 2025 ==

A consequence of fast buses not being advertised - if indeed they will run on the 7th - is that at certain times each hour it's suggested intending passengers travel via Clapham Junction, at a higher fare - albeit only £2.10 difference on an undiscounted single. (Though I wouldn't buy the higher priced ticket if the railway put me through this inconvenience.)

I'm not a fan of unadvertised, pot luck buses - either they're running and timetabled, or they're not. By all means add some extras if customer numbers exceed forecasts.

Totally agree - the advertised service is what will guide passengers to choose their option, and the chance of something maybe running would not tempt me!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Sep 2025 ==

So yesterday we had a points failure...
... this morning a track failure at Ash - trains both ways cancelled

Now that we have water falling from the sky again, expect to see soil expanding and track distorting again - and so it continues!

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

I agree - the amount of time that has been spent on my little local AHB (Burrows Lane) is staggering! The new signals have been in place (covered) for many months. I know that four crossings are being converted at the same time (with the associated signalling commissioning), but I have no idea if any other works on the line will be done - my gut feeling is that there is little co-ordination of works and that we will see yet another blockade before long.

I suspect they don't have the resources to commission them all simultaneously hence the extended duration.

 

[sp503]

So yesterday we had a points failure...
... this morning a track failure at Ash - trains both ways cancelled

the points failure seems to have lingered… or is it another points failure? Trains between Gatwick and Guildford are again delayed.
This together with the unreliability of the class 165s lately have resulted in a terrible couple of weeks on the North Downs line. Hardly a single day has passed without cancellations and delays.

 

[Minstral25]

Maybe the fast buses on the 7th will run unadvertised. Customers for Gatwick directed to them at Guildford and essentially arrive at destination early? This is often done with RRS and the unadvertised nature provides flexibility to redeploy vehicles to match demand on the day.

The Redhill buses have been started back from Gatwick - I think it very unlikely that the fast service will be running at all.

Probably more so as the M25 is closed at A3 junction, so, I suspect the GWR fast buses cannot do their normal route and GWR/Network Rail have decided to cut costs and just combine the buses.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Could be right, I guess we will find out this weekend. Network Rail wouldn’t be involved in that decision incidentally, as planning/provision of RRS is entirely for the TOC to manage. NR just upload the schedules that GWR request to be advertised.

 

[Farnborough]

the points failure seems to have lingered… or is it another points failure? Trains between Gatwick and Guildford are again delayed.
This together with the unreliability of the class 165s lately have resulted in a terrible couple of weeks on the North Downs line. Hardly a single day has passed without cancellations and delays.

I wasn't using NDL today... instead I was stuck at Aldershot for a while, due a tree on the line at the exit from Farnham depot

It's a bit early for "leaves on the line" - but they were still attached to the tree...

 

[Minstral25]

Could be right, I guess we will find out this weekend. Network Rail wouldn’t be involved in that decision incidentally, as planning/provision of RRS is entirely for the TOC to manage. NR just upload the schedules that GWR request to be advertised.

I may be mistaken but always thought Network Rail pay for the replacement buses during line closures. GWR may be making decisions, but NR are paying.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

I may be mistaken but always thought Network Rail pay for the replacement buses during line closures. GWR may be making decisions, but NR are paying.

The TOC is compensated via industry processes but the exact nature and stopping pattern of the bus timetable is not in NR’s realm.

 

[izvor]

It's a bit early for "leaves on the line" - but they were still attached to the tree...

That one should be added to the official list of NR excuses reasons!

 

[Hugo Smith]

Noticed this on Thursday morning and wondered if the disruption caused it in some way. I've never seen a Gatwick to Basingstoke direct service from GWR

 

[swt_passenger]

Noticed this on Thursday morning and wondered if the disruption caused it in some way. I've never seen a Gatwick to Basingstoke direct service from GWR

It was booked 3 days running, TWTh last week. Seems to have been planned in advance.

 

[MasterPhillips]

It is effectively a set swap from the Gatwick to Basingstoke line. But for some bizarre reason they have made it a through service.

 

[Class15]

That one should be added to the official list of NR excuses reasons!

‘This is due to leaves on a tree’ would certainly be quite funny!

 

[Minstral25]

The replacement bus situation for the 2-week closure 15th to 27th Sept is so appalling for local travellers who might as well be told not to travel.

GWR are only running replacement buses hourly, unlike the normal train service which is half-hourly. The journey time from Redhill to Guildford is extended to 1 hour 26 minutes (from 32) with, as said before, frequency halved.

They are running an express bus from Gatwick to Guildford, (it often routes right past Reigate Station) but refuse to have such a fast bus to pick up any local passengers.

GWR are basically saying to school kids and commuters who regularly use their service to not to bother turning up for two weeks in mid-term.

How are rail companies allowed to get away with this behaviour!

 

[izvor]

How are rail companies allowed to get away with this behaviour!

It certainly sounds appalling. I don't understand why a better service is not offered, especially as GWR do not have to pay for it anyway. The RR service will likely be single-deck, and I would predict overcrowding unless duplicates are readily available, notwithstanding your comments above.

Will there be bus controllers, with stand-by vehicles, at Reigate and Deepdene to manage the large school movements there? Another issue is that GWR bus controllers are not allowed to use their stand-by buses without permission from control - which can sometimes take longer to receive than the problem lasts. I hope all this has been factored in.

Another (relatively minor) issue is the late evening Chilworth diversion, which was raised on this thread.

 

[JonathanH]

Will there be bus controllers, with stand-by vehicles, at Reigate and Deepdene to manage the large school movements there?

More to the point, is there going to be total consistency about where the replacement buses stop at Reigate, Dorking Deepdene and Dorking West? It isn't unknown for replacement bus drivers to stop at the bus stop on Rushworth Road, rather than Reigate station, and to miss out Dorking West altogether.

 

[Minstral25]

Will there be bus controllers, with stand-by vehicles, at Reigate and Deepdene to manage the large school movements there? Another issue is that GWR bus controllers are not allowed to use their stand-by buses without permission from control - which can sometimes take longer to receive than the problem lasts. I hope all this has been factored in.

Reigate Station is manned (by Southern) so there will not be any Bus Controllers at Reigate.

More to the point, is there going to be total consistency about where the replacement buses stop at Reigate, Dorking Deepdene and Dorking West? It isn't unknown for replacement bus drivers to stop at the bus stop on Rushworth Road, rather than Reigate station, and to miss out Dorking West altogether.

They are stopping at Dorking Main station not Deepdene. This was changed a few closures back as there is more room for the buses at Main.

 

[izvor]

It isn't unknown for replacement bus drivers to stop at the bus stop on Rushworth Road, rather than Reigate station...

This is a long-standing problem. Trouble is, GWR buses use both stops, depending on whether the level crossing is open or not. Drivers frequently stop at the wrong stop, either using the wrong map or just "this is how I did it last time". On many occasions over the years pax have been stranded for 1 hour, 2 hours or more.

Hopefully the dispatcher at Redhill can check every departure. It's not so critical in the other direction as all buses appear to be set-down only at Reigate.

As this block is M-F during school term I imagine GWR will have to source buses from far and wide, and drivers not familiar with the area. May take a few days to bed down...

Reigate Station is manned (by Southern) so there will not be any Bus Controllers at Reigate.

So if 60 kids are trying to get on a full single-deck bus there will be no one to sort it out? Southern staff can not control buses, especially GWR ones, and if the stop is in Rushworth Road this time it is remote from the station anyway.

They are stopping at Dorking Main station not Deepdene. This was changed a few closures back as there is more room for the buses at Main.

Sounds like a good idea, better for connections too.

 

[Minstral25]

This is a long-standing problem. Trouble is, GWR buses use both stops, depending on whether the level crossing is open or not. Drivers frequently stop at the wrong stop, either using the wrong map or just "this is how I did it last time". On many occasions over the years pax have been stranded for 1 hour, 2 hours or more.

Hopefully the dispatcher at Redhill can check every departure. It's not so critical in the other direction as all buses appear to be set-down only at Reigate.

As this block is M-F during school term I imagine GWR will have to source buses from far and wide, and drivers not familiar with the area. May take a few days to bed down...

Is it really fair on heavily disrupted passengers to allow a few days of ruined commutes before GWR gets it right. I hope they get it right first time without fai.

So if 60 kids are trying to get on a full single-deck bus there will be no one to sort it out? Southern staff can not control buses, especially GWR ones, and if the stop is in Rushworth Road this time it is remote from the station anyway.

Southern staff will probably do nothing but that doesn't mean GWR decide to have controllers at the station. As far as I am aware they haven't before based on the Southern staff excuse. I recall they only added Dorking after complaints.

 

[izvor]

Is it really fair on heavily disrupted passengers to allow a few days of ruined commutes before GWR gets it right. I hope they get it right first time without fail.

No of course it isn't, and I hope so too. This is where attention to detail is so essential, an important prerequisite for any public transport operation.

Southern staff will probably do nothing but that doesn't mean GWR decide to have controllers at the station. As far as I am aware they haven't before based on the Southern staff excuse.

There have been GWR controllers at Reigate in the past, maybe when the GWR trains have been terminating there and the fast buses to Gatwick started from there.

Of course, even if there is a GWR controller there, if one of their buses arrives and departs from the wrong stop there is nothing he/she can do as one stop is not visible from the other!

 

[Farnborough]

Of course, even if there is a GWR controller there, if one of their buses arrives and departs from the wrong stop there is nothing he/she can do as one stop is not visible from the other!

Which is a bit of a [ahem]minor inconvenience[/ahem] if you are waiting for that bus, in the correct place, on a one-an-hour service

 

[Class 317]

GWR have form for inadequate buses during blockades. When it's been Guildford to Reading they have run a 07:40 first bus from Sandhurst rather than a first train at 06:32. Next bus 08:40.

Trains normally at 06:32, 07:13, 07:55, 08:13 and 08:43 over the same period. Again people left behind at peak times etc

As a minimum the frequency should be the same as the trains being replaced and first buses should get to destinations around the time the first train would normally do so.

In the example above I couldn't get to Reading until 08:35 rather than 07:08.

 

[yorksrob]

One would hope that there's ticket acceptance to go via any reasonable alternative route.

 

[Paul180]

I am a little bit concerned that they have gotten this information poster wrong at Dorking West.

Normally when you catch the bus towards Guildford it is going down Ranmore Road not up it.

 

[Deepgreen]

Meanwhile, BBC News has a story on the closure which they illustrate with a class 166 passing Dawlish!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Sep 2025 ==

I am a little bit concerned that they have gotten this information poster wrong at Dorking West.

Normally when you catch the bus towards Guildford it is going down Ranmore Road not up it.

Dorking West is jinxed - when the zone labels were painted on the platforms prior to the intended class 769 introduction, the zone numbers were applied the wrong way round on the EB platform (i.e. with 4 at the front, instead of 1). Checking work is a thing of the past.

 

[izvor]

So, the North Downs Line closure has been in force for a week now, with no further comment here - can we assume that the arrangements are running smoothly?

 

[Farnborough]

I've been driving...