Cash bus driver ticket sales on buses in other countries.

[stadler]

If they do transfers then they need to give you a transfer ticket which they give you on request. Some operators have ditched those and now only allow free transfers when using a smartcard or contactless bank card.

That transfer ticket thing is another unique USA and Canada thing. I can not think of any other country that lets you use a single ticket on another bus. Everywhere else you have to buy a second single ticket for your second bus or purchase an all day ticket on the first bus.

 

[johncrossley]

That transfer ticket thing is another unique USA and Canada thing. I can not think of any other country that lets you use a single ticket on another bus. Everywhere else you have to buy a second single ticket for your second bus or purchase an all day ticket on the first bus.

What about the timed (often zonal) tickets that are common in many European countries? Don't you class them as "single tickets"?

 

[Segedunum]

What about the timed (often zonal) tickets that are common in many European countries? Don't you class them as "single tickets"?

Even excluding those - Budapest offers a single ticket that you validate at each end, designed for a shorter journey with one transfer.

 

[stadler]

What about the timed (often zonal) tickets that are common in many European countries? Don't you class them as "single tickets"?

I would consider those timed tickets to be in the same category as day tickets. They give unlimited travel within a certain period of time. It is not quite the same as transfer tickets.

 

[signed]

That transfer ticket thing is another unique USA and Canada thing. I can not think of any other country that lets you use a single ticket on another bus. Everywhere else you have to buy a second single ticket for your second bus or purchase an all day ticket on the first bus.

The BreizhGo interurban service in Brittany, France, gives you a free transfer from one coach to another on most lines with a single ticket.

 

[AdamWW]

One interesting thing is the USA and Canada where almost every single bus operator is exact fare and uses electronic fareboxes. You put your coins and banknotes in to the farebox and it tells the driver how much you put in. So it kind of works like a self service checkout.

Some time ago I used a bus route in LA which had an express section of route (into the centre of LA I think) which required an additional fare.

At the last stop before the express part the driver came round to collect the fares from everyone.

I presume going the other way you needed to pay a double fare when getting on.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Nov 2025 ==

That transfer ticket thing is another unique USA and Canada thing. I can not think of any other country that lets you use a single ticket on another bus. Everywhere else you have to buy a second single ticket for your second bus or purchase an all day ticket on the first bus.

I'd argue that the London "Hopper fare" is exactly that, apart from not being a physical ticket.

It's not a 1 hour unlimited travel ticket because you can't use it for a return journey on the same route - it's intended only for journeys requiring more than one bus.

Though having said that, transfer tickets in North America don't necessarily have that restriction.

In Manchester, physical tickets can be used for further journeys within an hour. I don't know if that includes a return on the same route.

 

[stadler]

Some time ago I used a bus route in LA which had an express section of route (into the centre of LA I think) which required an additional fare.

At the last stop before the express part the driver came round to collect the fares from everyone.

I presume going the other way you needed to pay a double fare when getting on.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Nov 2025 ==



I'd argue that the London "Hopper fare" is exactly that, apart from not being a physical ticket.

It's not a 1 hour unlimited travel ticket because you can't use it for a return journey on the same route - it's intended only for journeys requiring more than one bus.

Though having said that, transfer tickets in North America don't necessarily have that restriction.

In Manchester, physical tickets can be used for further journeys within an hour. I don't know if that includes a return on the same route.

I thought that the hopper fare allowed you to make a return on the same route. I have never heard of such restrictions. As long as you touch in within 62 minutes then i am pretty sure it is possible to make a return journey on the same route with no additional charge.

Bus and tram fares

Prices for pay as you go caps and Bus & Tram Passes

tfl.gov.uk

When you use pay as you go at adult rate on buses and trams, our Hopper fare gives you unlimited journeys (made within one hour of touching in) for £1.75. Hopper fare also applies to discounted rate travel.

It mentions nothing online about being restricted from making a return on the same route and clearly says unlimited journeys within an hour.

 

[AdamWW]

I thought that the hopper fare allowed you to make a return on the same route. I have never heard of such restrictions. As long as you touch in within 62 minutes then i am pretty sure it is possible to make a return journey on the same route with no additional charge.

Maybe it's changed.

I'm sure it used to say it wasn't permitted - and when I did happen to double back on a route I was charged twice. That was quite a few years ago.

In any case, now I think about it a bit more, given that the time limit applies to boarding rather than travel I can't see how these differ other than in format to a tradiitional North American transfer.

They aren't tickets for unlimited travel in a certain time because once you've boarded the time limit no longer applies.

 

[stadler]

Maybe it's changed.

I'm sure it used to say it wasn't permitted - and when I did happen to double back on a route I was charged twice. That was quite a few years ago.

In any case, now I think about it a bit more, given that the time limit applies to boarding rather than travel I can't see how these differ other than in format to a tradiitional North American transfer.

They aren't tickets for unlimited travel in a certain time because once you've boarded the time limit no longer applies.

But the hopper fare allows unlimited travel within 62 minutes. The time still applies once you have boarded your second bus and you can board further buses after that. So it works almost exactly the same as the timed paper tickets that Mainland Europe have but just electronically. With the hopper fare you get unlimited travel within 62 minutes of tapping in on your first bus. So you could ride ten buses if you wanted to within that 62 minutes. It is not restricted to two buses. Plus you can travel beyond 62 minutes on the hopper fare as long as you board the last bus before the time expires.

 

[zero]

Here in the UK a very small amount of bus operators use fareboxes but these are all old fashioned types without any electronics. It just has a clear glass screen and the driver has to manually look at how much you put in. So it is very easy to underpay and get a cheaper bus ride if you throw in a large amount of coins.

But the strangest thing by far is the fact that most bus operators in the USA and Canada do not give you a ticket. So you just put your money in the farebox and walk on. It always feels so strange to pay for a ticket but not be given any physical ticket.

As mentioned, this is also the case for buses in Hong Kong and Macau when you use cash, and the driver is the gatekeeper as revenue protection could not work when proof of payment is not required. Now that cash payments are so rare, sometimes the driver can't even be bothered to check and just locks the plate in an open position, meaning that the coins just drop directly past the glass screen into the hopper. In Hong Kong, fares are rarely round numbers so checking is not so easy when the cents coins are tiny and can be hidden behind the larger coins.

Some buses in Japan also have the self-checkout style of farebox. When I visited Kyoto, passengers boarded at the rear and alighted at the front, paying on exit. I believe only 10-500 yen coins and 1000 yen banknotes (approx £5) were accepted, otherwise it might be out of change quite quickly.

Obviously it makes more sense for US buses to accept notes since their $1 comes in both forms with the coin being unpopular. Do any buses in Canada accept notes?

Some time ago I used a bus route in LA which had an express section of route (into the centre of LA I think) which required an additional fare.

At the last stop before the express part the driver came round to collect the fares from everyone.

I presume going the other way you needed to pay a double fare when getting on.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Nov 2025 ==

In 2014, I took a bus in Taiwan which had a similar concept, although the extended route was extremely slow.

Buses in Taiwan also use a clear glass farebox where you drop coins in if you want to pay cash. If you dropped in the higher extension fare, the driver would give you a token which you had to drop back in the farebox when alighting in the extended area of the route, otherwise you would be made to pay the extension fare again.

I'd argue that the London "Hopper fare" is exactly that, apart from not being a physical ticket.

It's not a 1 hour unlimited travel ticket because you can't use it for a return journey on the same route - it's intended only for journeys requiring more than one bus.

That's not correct, it's valid to touch on on any bus for 62 minutes after the first touch on, including buses on the same route (where the driver has been instructed to terminate short or let another bus overtake and kicks you off. Easier to just touch again instead of argue - drivers used to be able to give you a transfer ticket in that circumstance, not sure if they still can).

Maybe it's changed.

I'm sure it used to say it wasn't permitted - and when I did happen to double back on a route I was charged twice. That was quite a few years ago.

Are you certain that your double back was within 70 minutes (the previous time limit when TfL wasn't sure how accurate clocks on the buses would be), or that the first touch on wasn't already a 'hopper' fare?

 

[stadler]

As mentioned, this is also the case for buses in Hong Kong and Macau when you use cash, and the driver is the gatekeeper as revenue protection could not work when proof of payment is not required. Now that cash payments are so rare, sometimes the driver can't even be bothered to check and just locks the plate in an open position, meaning that the coins just drop directly past the glass screen into the hopper. In Hong Kong, fares are rarely round numbers so checking is not so easy when the cents coins are tiny and can be hidden behind the larger coins.

Some buses in Japan also have the self-checkout style of farebox. When I visited Kyoto, passengers boarded at the rear and alighted at the front, paying on exit. I believe only 10-500 yen coins and 1000 yen banknotes (approx £5) were accepted, otherwise it might be out of change quite quickly.

Obviously it makes more sense for US buses to accept notes since their $1 comes in both forms with the coin being unpopular. Do any buses in Canada accept notes?

In 2014, I took a bus in Taiwan which had a similar concept, although the extended route was extremely slow.

Buses in Taiwan also use a clear glass farebox where you drop coins in if you want to pay cash. If you dropped in the higher extension fare, the driver would give you a token which you had to drop back in the farebox when alighting in the extended area of the route, otherwise you would be made to pay the extension fare again.


That's not correct, it's valid to touch on on any bus for 62 minutes after the first touch on, including buses on the same route (where the driver has been instructed to terminate short or let another bus overtake and kicks you off. Easier to just touch again instead of argue - drivers used to be able to give you a transfer ticket in that circumstance, not sure if they still can).

No the transfer tickets were abolished during covid along with the negative balance one final journey tickets and waybill tickets and inspectors tickets.



The machines no longer have any paper in them and have even been reprogrammed to have the printing functionality removed. So nothing will print even if you put paper in it. They can hardly even be called ticket machines any more.

I very often use Bus Saver Tickets on TFL buses and i have had a couple experiences where the bus get turned around early and the drivers just wave you on now when you tell them. I have never had any problem when i have explained. But the transfer ticket was nice as it gave passengers assurance that they could get the next bus at no extra cost.

 

[AdamWW]

Are you certain that your double back was within 70 minutes (the previous time limit when TfL wasn't sure how accurate clocks on the buses would be), or that the first touch on wasn't already a 'hopper' fare?

Well my memory is that it would otherwise have qualified. But my memory is also that the rules specifically stated it couldn't be used for a return.

If that never was the case then either my memory is at fault or I've slipped into a parallel universe very similar to my previous one.
The former seems more plausible.

 

[MoominAndChips]

Finland - It varies depending on the city. Three cities have now gone cashless. Buses within Helsinki and Lahti and Tampere no longer accept cash. If you wish to pay cash then you have to purchase and top up a smartcard at certain supermarkets or newsagents or information offices or purchase a paper ticket from an information office. But the buses in all other cities (eg, Hameenlinna, Joensuu, Jyvaskyla, Kokkola, Kouvola, Kuopio, Lappeenranta, Mikkeli, Oulu, Pori, Salo, Seinajoki, Tornio, Turku, Vasa, etc) still accept cash onboard.

Here in Oulu, they do indeed accept cash, but it'll cost you. A single adult journey is 2.60€ when paying by OSL app or contactless, and 5€ with cash. After 11pm, that cash fare doubles!

 

[doodlelogic]

That transfer ticket thing is another unique USA and Canada thing. I can not think of any other country that lets you use a single ticket on another bus. Everywhere else you have to buy a second single ticket for your second bus or purchase an all day ticket on the first bus.

Greater Manchester does the £2 fare is good for an hour wherever cash ticket is contactless.

On the no cash idea Luxembourg goes even further by funding all public transport expect first class rail from general taxation.

 

[railfan99]

Philippines is generally cash only on buses, which all have conductors.

Melbourne, Australia used to accept cash on buses but this ceased in about 2020. A myki card is required.

 

[stadler]

Philippines is generally cash only on buses, which all have conductors.

Melbourne, Australia used to accept cash on buses but this ceased in about 2020. A myki card is required.

I seem to recall that Melbourne had a weird practice of not selling any tickets onboard but yet the bus drivers did accept cash to purchase or top up myki cards. That seems to have stopped in 2020 as you say. I think they stopped selling tickets on buses in Melbourne years earlier? I am not sure when but perhaps the late 2000s or early 2010s or around then? Although i think the buses further outside of the Melbourne urban area and other towns in Victoria still take cash to this day. At least they did when i was last there.

 

[railfan99]

I seem to recall that Melbourne had a weird practice of not selling any tickets onboard but yet the bus drivers did accept cash to purchase or top up myki cards. That seems to have stopped in 2020 as you say. I

Correct.

 

[The exile]

I would consider those timed tickets to be in the same category as day tickets. They give unlimited travel within a certain period of time. It is not quite the same as transfer tickets.

Most timed zonal tickets I’ve come across in Europe have small print that precluded using them for return or circular journeys (or at least they used to - mobile apps that don’t show where they were first validated have probably rendered that restriction unenforceable).

 

[Ballyheigue]

It sounds like that is only happening on their long distance coach routes:

Get Ready for Faster, Easier Journeys: JJ Kavanagh is Going Cashless from 14th October - JJ Kavanagh

We’re introducing a new cashless system, launching on 14th October across all routes. From this date, our drivers will no longer accept cash on board.

jjkavanagh.ie

They state on their website that their local bus services will still accept cash.

It's a weird one if you live in Nenagh and want to travel the local distance to Limerick. Catch Bus Eireann 72 or 323 and you can only pay by cash or Leap Card. Catch the Kavanagh's 735 and you can only pay by card! Because all services are very sporadic, people tend to catch all of them.

 

[Terry Tibbs]

All of the rural bus services I’ve used in Warmia-Masury still take cash as payment directly to the driver. The drivers of the urban bus services stopped accepting cash during 2020 and it looks like it will stay that way now.

 

[berneyarms]

It's a weird one if you live in Nenagh and want to travel the local distance to Limerick. Catch Bus Eireann 72 or 323 and you can only pay by cash or Leap Card. Catch the Kavanagh's 735 and you can only pay by card! Because all services are very sporadic, people tend to catch all of them.

It’s down to who the operator is.

One is a private commercial operator and the other two are PSO services.

JJ Kavanagh have implemented cashless payments (contactless or online) on all their commercial services.

All PSO services are governed by the NTA and they are currently working on their Next Generation Ticketing project which will see a complete overhaul of ticketing for PSO services across the country including contactless payments, account based ticketing and a completely new back end system for all PSO operators - this is not going to start being rolled out until 2028.

 

[Taunton]

Before being repriced as just a tourist facility, San Francisco cablecars used Fare Registers, as they had done for maybe a century. Roving conductors (who also assist with handbrakes on steep descents), fares are collected but no tickets. A rod with several handles in the roof is pulled by the conductor for each fare, a large clock mechanism shows the number of fares collected and there is a loud bell when pulled, along with noise from the mechanism itself! Another rod with smaller handles does child half fares. The traditional hanging on the footboards outside was no deterrent to being asked for fares as the street flashed along under your feet.

As we are doing ticketless cash sales in other countries, I'll also mention the free enterprise "Marshrutka" minibuses which sprang up in Eastern Europe, principally Russia but some other countries, and which made quite a dent in the official urban transport patronage. Using local Ford Transit-lookalike vehicles, about 15 seats, route description and flat fare pasted to a side window, they stopped when hailed, you just slide the side door open and took a seat. Flat fare pasted on the window, say 70 Rubles, so take out a 100 Ruble note and give it to the passenger ahead. They know what to do and pass it on forward, eventually gets to the driver who had a basket alongside to put it in. Minute or two later the 30 rubles change makes its way back hand-to hand for you. All done completely honourably, no tickets, no mixups. Another passenger boards, sits behind you, next thing you know a hand appears over your shoulder with 100 R note in it. You know what to do now ...

 

[Mainline421]

Before being repriced as just a tourist facility, San Francisco cablecars used Fare Registers, as they had done for maybe a century. Roving conductors (who also assist with handbrakes on steep descents), fares are collected but no tickets. A rod with several handles in the roof is pulled by the conductor for each fare, a large clock mechanism shows the number of fares collected and there is a loud bell when pulled, along with noise from the mechanism itself! Another rod with smaller handles does child half fares. The traditional hanging on the footboards outside was no deterrent to being asked for fares as the street flashed along under your feet.

San Francisco Cable Cars accept Clipper Cards for the same fare as buses ($2.85 or free for under 18s) and are still used by locals, especially at 6am when I was there. The $9 tickets are just a tourist trap and are only required if 1. You (for some strange reason) want to queue at a terminus stop between 08:00 and 17:00 rather than walking less than a minute and hailing it down at the next stop (without queuing) or 2. you want to pay by cash, credit/debit aren't accepted on board unless it's changed since 2023.

 

[dutchflyer]

That transfer ticket thing is another unique USA and Canada thing. I can not think of any other country that lets you use a single ticket on another bus. Everywhere else you have to buy a second single ticket for your second bus or purchase an all day ticket on the first bus.

I think its mostly a Norte-Americano thing, as I vaguely remember MEXico might also have (had?) it in some cities close by that US-border.
But as a minor variation on this theme, as I just now read the whole story. Here in Bangkok,THailand, the citybus BMTA has plenty of circular routes. These all have some layover point, where depending on how busy it is etc. one has to change to a bus before to continue trip. That point may even be quite different for the 2 directions (in the new number scheme indicated as L or R). ONLY on those points one can use same ticket for onward travel. The official rules even tell that the ticket nrs of the arriving bus should be handed over to departing, so that an inspector could check that it was genuine (and that all for 20p!). But what is official and what is practice often is not the same here- applies also to about anything that could be done easier/swifter without petty rules.
But in Nederland, before they started with the chips and before that with the national strips, tickets on regional buses (Crossley! Leyland!) were from machines like Almex, Setright or the dutch invented Beckson. They were point to point-and depending on the actual operator, could easily include as many changes as were needed to get from A to B, though only on the network of that one operator. But thats last century, when even very busy routes might have had conductors-or only at the busiest times- on board, so out of the scope of this thread.

 

[AdamWW]

d if 1. You (for some strange reason) want to queue at a terminus stop between 08:00 and 17:00 rather than walking less than a minute and hailing it down at the next stop (without queuing)

Is there a risk of not getting on if you don't get on at the start?
This is a while back now but I had trouble getting on one an intermediate stop because they were turning up full.