DSB Talgo - start of passenger operation

[andersj]

Last week DSB accepted and took over two Talgo trains and now they are really close to the start of passenger operation after 2,5 years delay.

On Saturday November 1st it is planned to run the following national trains with Talgo:
IC 50157 from Østerport to Fredericia via Copenhagen Central and Odense departing at 14:41 / 2:41 PM
IC 50160 from Fredericia to Østerport via Odense and Copenhagen Central departing at 18:56 / 6:56 PM

From Monday November 3rd it is planned to run the following international trains with Talgo:
EC 396 from Hamburg Hbf to Copenhagen Central departing at 10:53.
EC 397 from Copenhagen Central to Hamburg Hbf departing at 14:11 / 2:11 PM (normal departure time 14:22 / 2:22 PM)

Further services with Talgo are currently postponed until more trains are accepted. EC 391 and 394 will therefore continue to operate with DB IC1 coaches. The national trains will only operate this Saturday.

With new trains entering service things can change until last minute. I don't know if there are replacement trains on back up for EC 396/397, so they could potentially be unreliable services from next week.

 

[NCT]

Thanks for the heads up. Will the new sets operate in push-pull mode, or will the locomotive have to be be in front?

 

[Tinginys]

Any particular reason why Talgo was selected by DSB in light of Talgo's reputation of poor ride quality?

 

[43096]

Thanks for the heads up. Will the new sets operate in push-pull mode, or will the locomotive have to be be in front?

The driving trailers are part of the second batch of eight sets. The original plan was for the sets to run with top’n’tail class EB (Siemens Vectron) locos. So they will run with loco leading until then.

 

[andersj]

Any particular reason why Talgo was selected by DSB in light of Talgo's reputation of poor ride quality?

They met the requirements and had the best offer. Bombardier, Siemens and Talgo were prequalified but Bombardier withdrew after losing the ÖBB Railjet 2 contract and CAF got prequalified instead. Only Siemens and Talgo made a final offer.

I don't know if DSB was aware of the reputation of Talgo coaches or how the ride quality is measured in the requirements for the coaches. DSB trusted Talgo based on the DB ICE L order, both for the initial order and for the cab cars ordered in 2023.

 

[Tinginys]

It would be incredibly strange for a railway company not to be aware of such things. Sure they should know what they're ordering as far as passenger comfort and ride quality are concerned? Anyway, looking forward to trying this train out. Talgos are are entertaining my curiosity lately after all the rage and bad reviews by multiple train vloggers in various countries.

 

[NCT]

I'm not a rolling stock person, but I suspect ride quality is difficult to specify in contract terms. You could outright specify traditional swivel bogies, but they probably didn't want to discourage innovation / different ways of doing things. It might be that low floor throughout was desired / encouraged.

 

[stuu]

It should be pretty straightforward to specify maximum lateral and vertical acceleration at e.g. the centre of a carriage at a given speed when encountering a crossing at xx km/h. Rolling stock engineers must have tolerances they work with

 

[43096]

It should be pretty straightforward to specify maximum lateral and vertical acceleration at e.g. the centre of a carriage at a given speed when encountering a crossing at xx km/h. Rolling stock engineers must have tolerances they work with

My specification is that any 125mph stock must match the ride quality of a Mark 3 at 125mph. I - and anyone I deem to be similarly qualified to test - will be the sole judges of this.

 

[nwales58]

My specification is that any 125mph stock must match the ride quality of a Mark 3 at 125mph. I - and anyone I deem to be similarly qualified to test - will be the sole judges of this.

Is that a Mk3 on 1976 GW track (passing the 50p test almost everywhere) or on modern track?

 

[MrJeeves]

On Saturday November 1st it is planned to run the following national trains with Talgo:
IC 50157 from Østerport to Fredericia via Copenhagen Central and Odense departing at 14:41 / 2:41 PM
IC 50160 from Fredericia to Østerport via Odense and Copenhagen Central departing at 18:56 / 6:56 PM

These trains continue on to/from Aarhus. Do you know if the Talgos will continue, or whether an IC3 will meet it at Fredericia for passengers to transfer onto/off of?

 

[Gloster]

These trains continue on to/from Aarhus. Do you know if the Talgos will continue, or whether an IC3 will meet it at Fredericia for passengers to transfer onto/off of?

A look at the DSB journey planner produces No Journeys from Østerport, but that may be an error. Looking at the train number, this is possibly running as an empty stock

 

[43096]

These trains continue on to/from Aarhus. Do you know if the Talgos will continue, or whether an IC3 will meet it at Fredericia for passengers to transfer onto/off of?

The Talgo can't run through to Aarhus as the line from Fredericia is not yet electrified.

 

[MrJeeves]

A look at the DSB journey planner produces No Journeys from Østerport, but that may be an error. Looking at the train number, this is possibly running as an empty stock

I don't follow. A search for tomorrow from Østerport to Aarhus shows a 1441 departure running as ICL 50157.

But the arrival time at Aarhus means that the same unit couldn't also run the Fredericia - København H service unless there was a change of rolling stock enroute, or both units were running.



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The Talgo can't run through to Aarhus as the line from Fredericia is not yet electrified.

Duh, of course. Thanks.

 

[andersj]

These trains continue on to/from Aarhus. Do you know if the Talgos will continue, or whether an IC3 will meet it at Fredericia for passengers to transfer onto/off of?

IC 50157 is cancelled between Fredericia and Aarhus tomorrow. Replacement service IC 8557 will run instead between Fredericia and Aarhus.

IC 50160 always start at Fredericia.

 

[MrJeeves]

Thanks for the info.

Maybe I'll see some of you on board...

 

[Gloster]

I don't follow. A search for tomorrow from Østerport to Aarhus shows a 1441 departure running as ICL 50157.

But the arrival time at Aarhus means that the same unit couldn't also run the Fredericia - København H service unless there was a change of rolling stock enroute, or both units were running.

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Duh, of course. Thanks.

Presumably the ‘ Something went wrong: NO_JOURNEYS ‘ that I am getting on DSB’s Danish language journey planner is an error message.

 

[MrJeeves]

The Talgo is here!

 

[NCT]

Beautifully misaligned seats in First Class ...

Personally I'd go for a smaller seat pitch (Standard Class seems well aligned) for better alignment.

 

[AdamWW]

Beautifully misaligned seats in First Class ...

Personally I'd go for a smaller seat pitch (Standard Class seems well aligned) for better alignment.

Makes a change if they've built them to align the windows in second and not first though...

 

[andersj]

Beautifully misaligned seats in First Class ...

Personally I'd go for a smaller seat pitch (Standard Class seems well aligned) for better alignment.

Problem is that DSB specified a bigger seat pitch than DB in the tender and the coaches are build based on the smaller seat pitch requested by DB. It's not something that can easily be chanced after awarding the contract without risk of complaints from other bidders and the winner themselves (less coaches or more seats in total).

The seat pitch is the same on both first and second class in the DSB Talgo's and I agree that it's unfortunate that the bigger seat pitch translates to an awful alignment.

 

[stadler]

That interior of the DSB new Talgo stock looks very nice. Certainly better than the Spanish ones. I just hope they have better ride quality. I would be interested to hear from anyone who has been on one regarding this.

Are these new Talgo trains solely being hauled by electric locomotives? Or can they operate with diesel locomotives too for non electrified lines?

 

[Gloster]

That interior of the DSB new Talgo stock looks very nice. Certainly better than the Spanish ones. I just hope they have better ride quality. I would be interested to hear from anyone who has been on one regarding this.

Are these new Talgo trains solely being hauled by electric locomotives? Or can they operate with diesel locomotives too for non electrified lines?

DSB doesn’t have any main line diesels now, just four shunters. These are, I think, three tractors and one MK loco.

 

[andersj]

That interior of the DSB new Talgo stock looks very nice. Certainly better than the Spanish ones. I just hope they have better ride quality. I would be interested to hear from anyone who has been on one regarding this.

Are these new Talgo trains solely being hauled by electric locomotives? Or can they operate with diesel locomotives too for non electrified lines?

They should be able to operate with alle types of locomotives equipped with ÖBB-WTB. DB will be using Vectron Dual Mode to pull and push ICE L on non-electrified lines.

 

[43096]

Are these new Talgo trains solely being hauled by electric locomotives?

DSB have no mainline diesel locos now. So these sets are only being hauled by electric locos (DSB's fleet of Vectrons).

 

[stadler]

I just realised these new DSB Talgo trains have a door close button on the exterior. I wonder if that is a world first. I can not think of any other train in the world to have a door close button on the exterior. I do wonder how much point there is of it as i doubt any passengers will close the door after alighting. Obviously the interior door close buttons make far more sense as it allows the passengers to immediately close the doors after boarding to keep the heat in. Certainly an unusual feature to have an exterior door close button.

 

[Mike395]

A few more photos from yesterday!

Was really impressed overall. Bit of vibration at speed but nothing unpleasant.

The main interior point (I’m reminded of this whilst sat in an IC3 with its comfy armchair seating and headrests!) is the lack of seat cushioning particularly on the headrest, it could do with a cushioned inlay like the DB Talgo sets will be getting.

 

[Amalie]

Was really impressed overall. Bit of vibration at speed but nothing unpleasant.

Phew. While both these and DB’s ones seemed to have lovely interiors, the potential of a disastrous ride quality is what terrified me. Glad to hear that it seems to be alright.

 

[doc7austin]

From Monday November 3rd it is planned to run the following international trains with Talgo:
EC 396 from Hamburg Hbf to Copenhagen Central departing at 10:53.

I am quite curius to learn where the rake for the aforementioned service is to be sourced from. In fact, no DSB Talgo set has been spotted today at DB Fernverkehr's depot at Hamburg-Eidelstedt.
Either the rake is ferried from Denmark in the next 20 hours - or the rake is parked at some other spot in Hamburg.

It is weird that DSB has been communicating that EC 397 (Monday at 14:11 from Copenhagen) would be the international inaugural service, when another service EC 396 (Monday at 10:53 from Hamburg) departs even before that.

 

[AdamWW]

Phew. While both these and DB’s ones seemed to have lovely interiors, the potential of a disastrous ride quality is what terrified me. Glad to hear that it seems to be alright.

And the wheel layout is presumably what enables a low floor train without ramps or steps all over the place.

Apart from the ends, though I don't recall seeing this arrangement with proper bogies at each end on previous Talgo coaching rakes.