Haymarket to Dalmeny electrification

[jeffinabox]

Plan ahead: Electrification works between Haymarket and Dalmeny in January

Rail passengers are being encouraged to plan ahead for journeys between Edinburgh and Fife over nine days in January, while essential engineering work to electrify the line takes place.

www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk

 

[EastFifer]

Does anyone know if they’re electrifying the whole Fife Circle or is it still Plan A?
I.e. Kinghorn/Lochgelly to Ladybank?

 

[John R]

Does anyone know if they’re electrifying the whole Fife Circle or is it still Plan A?
I.e. Kinghorn/Lochgelly to Ladybank?

There hasn’t been any suggestion that there will be full electrification. Just the “four arms” centred on Thornton.

 

[TrainViation]

There hasn’t been any suggestion that there will be full electrification. Just the “four arms” centred on Thornton.

Pretty much just now yes, but they did mention it’s an interim scheme, and they want to fully electrify in the future. Hopefully by 2035 or 2040.

I think the main issues with the inner circle are the Forth Bridge to Inverkeithing and the Kinghorn tunnel. Both would require significant alterations or modifications.

As I’m pretty sure this was discussed before, the Scottish government were testing different things on the bridge over a three year period between 2022 and 2025, but nothing has came out about it so far. We just need to see how the the UNESCO people and locals deal with the idea of masts and wires over the bridge…

 

[najaB]

We just need to see how the the UNESCO people and locals deal with the idea of masts and wires over the bridge…

I'm pretty sure that UNESCO would be fine with it, as long as it's done sympathetically. It is, after all, listed as a world heritage site specifically because it represents industrial/engineering excellence, rather than being a work of art.

 

[John R]

Pretty much just now yes, but they did mention it’s an interim scheme, and they want to fully electrify in the future. Hopefully by 2035 or 2040.

I think the main issues with the inner circle are the Forth Bridge to Inverkeithing and the Kinghorn tunnel. Both would require significant alterations or modifications.

As I’m pretty sure this was discussed before, the Scottish government were testing different things on the bridge over a three year period between 2022 and 2025, but nothing has came out about it so far. We just need to see how the the UNESCO people and locals deal with the idea of masts and wires over the bridge…

I recall those "in the know" have said several times that there is no issue with the Forth Bridge. Given the whole bridge is comprised of a complexity of steel girders, I cannot imagine for one moment that the introduction of catenary would make a material visual impact, especially from the distance at which the bridge is typically viewed.

 

[TrainViation]

I recall those "in the know" have said several times that there is no issue with the Forth Bridge. Given the whole bridge is comprised of a complexity of steel girders, I cannot imagine for one moment that the introduction of catenary would make a material visual impact, especially from the distance at which the bridge is typically viewed.

I've heard a number of mixed answers from everyone I've spoken to about it, but it's all been opinions I reckon. I've always thought it wouldn't have been a heritage issue.

Also a bit off THAT topic, but there's a new double mast next to Lennymuir in the gap next to the airport. Seems to be one more mast left to fill in there and only two others before the line is fully connected!

 

[GRALISTAIR]

There hasn’t been any suggestion that there will be full electrification. Just the “four arms” centred on Thornton.

About 5 years ago, Scotland published documents saying eventually (2035/2040) the plan was to electrify the whole thing. Imho they are taking the sensible approach of doing it bit by bit. Good to see whatever happens.

 

[John R]

About 5 years ago, Scotland published documents saying eventually (2035/2040) the plan was to electrify the whole thing. Imho they are taking the sensible approach of doing it bit by bit. Good to see whatever happens.

I'm aware of that, but by use of the present tense "they're electrifying" the question appeared to be phrased in terms of the electrification now under way, and I answered accordingly.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Does anyone know if they’re electrifying the whole Fife Circle or is it still Plan A?
I.e. Kinghorn/Lochgelly to Ladybank?

Eventually the lot.

 

[TrainViation]

Plan ahead: Electrification works between Haymarket and Dalmeny in January

Rail passengers are being encouraged to plan ahead for journeys between Edinburgh and Fife over nine days in January, while essential engineering work to electrify the line takes place.

www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk

Speaking of this again, I'm guessing this closure will be for track lowers around bridges to allow OHLE under?

Just wondering, now that I’ve confused myself a bunch tonight.
Does the Haymarket to Dalmeny electrification includes electrification up to Dalmeny station itself? Because I’ve convinced myself that the wires end jut before there.
I have a photo of where the masts currently end just south of Dalmeny junction, does that mean the masts won’t continue on to the station in this project?

Adding onto that, does this tunnel look like it has enough clearance for wires to go under? It looks like there would be enough space but I'm on the fence a bit.

 

[najaB]

Adding onto that, does this tunnel look like it has enough clearance for wires to go under? It looks like there would be enough space but I'm on the fence a bit.

It looks like it to me.

Some very rough pixel counting: the red line is 70 pixels which gives 20.5cm per pixel. The blue line is 260 pixels which is 5.3m. The standard structure clearance for a 100mph railway is, according to this thread, 4.6m.

Edit: I wrote the wrong pixel counts above, but the final result is still 5.3m.

 

[TrainViation]

It looks like it to me.

Some very rough pixel counting: the red line is 70 pixels which gives 20.5cm per pixel. The blue line is 260 pixels which is 5.3m. The standard structure clearance for a 100mph railway is, according to this thread, 4.6m.

Thanks for the rough calculation, definitely gives us more confidence that it won't need to be modified in the future.
I've gotten a better photo here just in case, though the camera is a bit warped through barrel distortion. I'll try and look for other official measurements however somewhere else. The bridge number is 090/026A.

 

[zwk500]

Thanks for the rough calculation, definitely gives us more confidence that it won't need to be modified in the future.
I've gotten a better photo here just in case, though the camera is a bit warped through barrel distortion. I'll try and look for other official measurements however somewhere else. The bridge number is 090/026A.

You can also get a solid estimate from the temporary fence panels alongside, which are generally 2m tall I think.

From the pictures the underside clearance is absolutely fine, but the parapets may not be the 1.8m required.

 

[Class 170101]

From the pictures the underside clearance is absolutely fine, but the parapets may not be the 1.8m required.

But I'd say the easiest bit to resolve, just add a few more blocks on top.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

But I'd say the easiest bit to resolve, just add a few more blocks on top.

Big coping stones!

 

[TrainViation]

Found this very nice looking photo of the RHTT on Flickr (credit to beano3104), and I noticed a new and very large beam over the rail line behind the RHTT. Does anyone know what this could be for?

 

[Russel]

About 5 years ago, Scotland published documents saying eventually (2035/2040) the plan was to electrify the whole thing. Imho they are taking the sensible approach of doing it bit by bit. Good to see whatever happens.

That kind of answers a question I was about to ask, I've not really been keeping up with this one, but will electrification as far as Dalmeny actually be of benefit until the whole circle is wired?

 

[Trainbike46]

That kind of answers a question I was about to ask, I've not really been keeping up with this one, but will electrification as far as Dalmeny actually be of benefit until the whole circle is wired?

Yes it will be of benefit from the start, though benefits will increase over time.

From the day it is finished and in use, LNER will use it.
When ScotRail's BEMU order arrives, the fife services will also use it

 

[zwk500]

But I'd say the easiest bit to resolve, just add a few more blocks on top.

Rebuilding/extending a parapet is a much simpler job, yes.

 

[59CosG95]

Found this very nice looking photo of the RHTT on Flickr (credit to beano3104), and I noticed a new and very large beam over the rail line behind the RHTT. Does anyone know what this could be for?


View attachment 191443

That looks like a portal OLE structure. Possibly a Mid Point Anchor (MPA) Portal.

 

[Nottingham59]

Rebuilding/extending a parapet is a much simpler job, yes.

I'm sure they'll cope ....

 

[zwk500]

I'm sure they'll cope ....

ba dum tsss...

 

[Russel]

Yes it will be of benefit from the start, though benefits will increase over time.

From the day it is finished and in use, LNER will use it.
When ScotRail's BEMU order arrives, the fife services will also use it

How frequent are the LNER services though?

 

[Highlander1]

How frequent are the LNER services though?

5 a day in each direction M-F. 4 each direction Saturday and Sunday

 

[Russel]

5 a day in each direction M-F. 4 each direction Saturday and Sunday

So really, until the Scotrail bi-modes arrive, or the full Fife circle is wired, the benefits are going to be minimal.

 

[Trainbike46]

So really, until the Scotrail bi-modes arrive, or the full Fife circle is wired, the benefits are going to be minimal.

Maybe so, but the Scotrail BEMUs (not Bi-modes, as there won't be diesel engines) literally can't enter service until a certain amount of electrification is delivered, across this project and a few others in Scotland. And fully electrifying the fife circle necessarily requires some parts of it to be electrified first (it is obviously not all going to be ready at the same time). For the second option, you would also have to wait for Scotrail to get more EMUs, as they are already short.

This has come up before, both around the projects involving Barrhead and East Kilbride, and around Fife. What I really don't get is why people get so upset about certain new infrastructure not being fully used from day one. It's kind of unavoidable? There will be trains useing it from day one, and the number of trains that use it will increase over time. That is a good outcome, so what are people unhappy about?

 

[GRALISTAIR]

@Trainbike46 - you have just stated/asked my frustration in one. Electrification would not get done if we had to have everything using it from day 1. I don’t want to drift OT but the North West England schemes were done bit by bit too.

 

[The exile]

Maybe so, but the Scotrail BEMUs (not Bi-modes, as there won't be diesel engines) literally can't enter service until a certain amount of electrification is delivered, across this project and a few others in Scotland. And fully electrifying the fife circle necessarily requires some parts of it to be electrified first (it is obviously not all going to be ready at the same time). For the second option, you would also have to wait for Scotrail to get more EMUs, as they are already short.

This has come up before, both around the projects involving Barrhead and East Kilbride, and around Fife. What I really don't get is why people get so upset about certain new infrastructure not being fully used from day one. It's kind of unavoidable? There will be trains useing it from day one, and the number of trains that use it will increase over time. That is a good outcome, so what are people unhappy about?

If the electrification were to be intensively used from day one that would mean fleets of emus Lying around virtually unused until launch day. What a field day the press would have then!

 

[John R]

We've had this debate quite recently. It takes time to electrify a network of lines, and so inevitably some bits will be ready before others. So it's very common for sections to be completed a couple of years before they can be utilised. In this case, the section, together with the sections on the main line as far as Ladybank, will be able to be used by the 5 LNER trains as soon as they are ready.