Capacity is largely irrelevant in this, it will still be performance. Those driver training paths were never WTT and likely treated as non-permanent so the shorter term risk was acceptable. The timetable has the differential limits factored in, hence why 80x lose time currently.
Indeed that is close to the entire population of the Central Belt of Scotland most of whom are far more likely to use Edinburgh or Glasgow.
Fairly similar in terms of overall route barring not extending to Edinburgh. However this new service seems to use quite a different way of working, being more of a interregional service as opposed to a limited-stop service which was what the previous proposal was intending.
Wonder how it will do with the abstraction test then.
It's a no-brainer really, a far more frequent Service from Edinburgh or Glasgow.
I agree, but there are station stops in Glasgow suburbs, and of course not everyone lives near the city centre stations.
I am baffled as to why First Group think it is a good idea to submit another application for services from Rochdale to London Euston on the West Coast Mainline. In their rejection of the three open access applications for the West Coast Mainline earlier this year the Office of Rail and Road were totally clear that there is no capacity for any such services and the three applications were rejected specifically for this reason.
Sure, if you are wanting to visit the Highlands and Islands then Stirling makes a lot of sense as a Motorail terminal, you can drive off the train and onto main roads heading north, north-east or north-west, giving you easy access to everywhere beyond the central belt from one station. But that only works when you've got a car. If you're looking at taking tourists up to Scotland by train without their car then you need to take them to the places they want to go to. And while Stirling is a pleasant place to visit for a day or so, it's unlikely to be a big draw for tourists – nothing like the big cities of Glasgow or Edinburgh, and not much better for the Highlands and Islands than taking people to one of those two for an onward connection.
Perhaps if this application is refused on abstraction grounds (as opposed to capacity), they'll try again with a modified stopping pattern that may attempt something along those lines.
Probably likely to happen. With the stopping pattern they're proposing they will almost certainly run into the same problems that the current XC franchise has, with a mix of long-distance and short hop passengers, leading to overcrowding and putting yourself back in square one. If Lumo get their hands on more vehicles they could lengthen the 222s to 7 or 8 car but I don't know if there are any other operators who have earmarked the rest of the 222s. If they focus on long-distance and go for limited-stop, they make be less likely to fail abstraction, especially if they skip Tamworth and Chesterfield.
That could probably work, although you might still end up with people jumping on for short hops then standing for the journey. That said, if the trains will be fully standard class that will be a welcome capacity boost over XC with only 3 standard coaches on a 220. They could go for an unreserved coach.
I've always assumed Stirling is because it's the nearest big station after using the Motherwell Cumbernauld line, connecting the lines South East of Glasgow to the main routes North of it. Historic Scottish railway geography means that Edinburgh has a single main station a train can run through from the ECML or reverse in from the WCML, but Glasgow has terminals facing North or South. Unfortunately, that means a train from London finds it hard to serve both Glasgow and other places in Scotland. (there was a WCML train that ran from London to Ayr, south east of Glasgow, but there's not much beyond Ayr).
How does this relate to Lumo ?
Because Lumo propose using the currently empty XC paths?
Initially I thought this new route could be a speedier connection to Stirling and connecting services, but looking at the timetable the proposal is slower than taking ScotRail and LNER.
You can't avoid Sheffield AND stop at Rotherham Central.
I'm sorry? Why is FirstGroup allowed to run a Carmarthen service under a new brand when they already got a Carmarthen service?
Unfortunately that isn’t possible with the current junctions at Rotherham.
The information on the London North Western Railway website has changed to the following proposal for an hourly service Manchester Airport-Crewe-Birmingham New Street also serving the new stations at Darlaston and Willenhall.
Destination Manchester
Read our exciting proposal for our trains to begin serving Manchester for the first time.www.londonnorthwesternrailway.co.uk
There is a short news piece in the current Modern Railways where the WMT MD "reiterates" they still plan to run to Manchester Airport, and that it's "complicated" so it's quite plausible that remapping the Northern Crewe to Manchester Airport path to WMT is still an option.
What evidence do you have for this claim?
I stated that it is my current guess. I do not know their intentions. However the plans published on their website changed, there has been no application so far to the ORR, the plans published on their website indicate the proposed service may be dependent on taking over a service run by another Government run operator and they will be taken over by the Government on 1 February 2026.
I have not seen any news about discussions between WMT and Northern. All the news about this proposal so far is from WMT. We shall see in the next three months whether there is any more news about this or if the proposal is just dropped.
LSL specials usually pick up at Chesterfield and Swinton to avoid running through Sheffield!
I went from Leeds to Cardiff recently via the direct XC train that comes from Edinburgh, and was surprised to find that it wasn't quicker than changing at Bristol Parkway! This Lumo service will definitely be a slow service to the Midlands from Cardiff - but perhaps that'll get it through the ORR, as CrossCountry will be able to sell a faster one. Also worth noting that XC stop at University rather than Bromsgrove.
Not sure if we need a new thread to move WMT conversation there?