GTR Thameslink Witness Statement Receipt - Wrong Tickets for 44 Journeys

[cornsudahpunah]

Dear Forum Members,

I was issued a Witness Statement Receipt recently after a rail inspector caught me travelling with the wrong tickets for my journey.

I was hoping some advice on how I can ensure this is settled out of court per settlement fee?

Additionally, they have recorded my first name with one letter missing. Should I proactively mail a letter to GTR Prosecutions Department and attempt to correct the error and pay a settlement fee?

Facts of the Offence:

• Travelled from Whitechapel to Farringdon on the TFL/Tube
• Then travelled from Farringdon to Welwyn Garden City (WWGC)
• Only purchased an Anytime Day Return tickets from St Pancras ("London Terminals") to WWGC instead, using a valid 16-25 railcard
• Purchased the tickets after I boarded the train, a few minutes before ticket inspections at WWGC exit;
• The inspectors noticed the timing, and thus pulled me aside for questioning

When asked by the inspectors, I provided the following information in panic:

• Provided my real name, address, birthdate, etc. on a notepad that the inspector has
• Provided full journey details - using Tube to enter the network, and exchanging to Thameslink while only buying the tickets later
• Foolishly, admitted that I usually travelled from Farringdon but only bought tickets for St Pancras due to fear of being overcharged via Trainline;
• Admitted no intention when asked on their tablets
• This led to me being issued an MG11 rather than a penalty fare

Name Problem:

• The inspectors were not able to find my name on the system as I am not registered on the roll for the address;
• The inspectors entered my first name to the tablet with one missing letter, which I only noticed after I now checked the witness statement receipt

Speaking honestly, I have done this regularly:

• 40-50 journeys in total - worth around £800-900 in total
• I thought that I will be charged extra if buying from Farringdon, as it includes the Farringdon tube station too (i.e. my return ticket will be for returning to Tube rather than the train station)
• I usually purchased the tickets once I get to St Pancras, so my error has never been caught before, and I have no history of fare dodging

I am hoping that I might not be found in the system, but I imagine this is impossible given that they have a picture of the tickets I own.
Does the kind experts in the forum have any advice?

Thank you in advance for your time and assistance.

 

[Haywain]

and I have no history of fare dodging

You do. You just have no history of being caught, until now.

 

[cornsudahpunah]

@Haywain Yes, that is more accurate, thank you for the correction.

 

[30907]

How have you been paying for the Whitechapel-Farringdon section?

Have you consistently bought from St Pancras and not somewhere nearer WGC?

 

[cornsudahpunah]

@30907

Thank you for replying.

I have paid using a TfL Oystercard, and I always tap in/out. All 44 journeys have all been from St Pancras as well, and not somewhere nearer WGC.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Oct 2025 ==

How have you been paying for the Whitechapel-Farringdon section?

Have you consistently bought from St Pancras and not somewhere nearer WGC?

Thank you for replying.

I have paid using a TfL Oystercard, and I always tap in/out.
All 44 journeys have all been from St Pancras as well, and not somewhere nearer WGC.

 

[Stargull]

OK, so just to be clear you tap out at Farringdon when changing on to Thameslink? Presumably you use one of the readers on a platform, rather than passing through barriers to leave the station and then go back in?
Something doesn't make sense here because the fare from Farringdon to Welwyn is the same as that from St Pancras.

 

[cornsudahpunah]

OK, so just to be clear you tap out at Farringdon when changing on to Thameslink? Presumably you use one of the readers on a platform, rather than passing through barriers to leave the station and then go back in?

That is exactly right - I use the reader on the platform rather than passing through barriers and exiting/entering the station.

Thank you for replying.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Oct 2025 ==

Something doesn't make sense here because the fare from Farringdon to Welwyn is the same as that from St Pancras.

In Trainline, an Anytime Day Return ticket for Farringdon to WWGC is £21.70 without railcard - the ticket is marked as "London Thameslink THK" to WWGC.
Meanwhile, an Anytime Day Return ticket for St Pancras to WWGC is £19.70 without railcard - the ticket is marked as "London Terminals LON" to WWGC.

I assume Farringdon is not included as a London terminal?

 

[Stargull]

Ah, you're quite right, my apologies. And no, Farringdon is not a London Terminal. So when you say you bought tickets from St Pancras 'due to fear of being overcharged via Trainline', what you mean is you didn't want to pay the extra couple of quid to travel from Farringdon to St Pancras.

Whether GTR think these extra journeys are fraudulent probably depends on exactly what you told them (or if they notice the lack of a scan on entry at St Pancras). You'll have to wait for the letter and see whether they just mention the one recent journey, or whether they take these into account too. Assuming you want to arrange an out of court settlement, you should expect to pay the full fare (regardless of what you've already paid, and without any railcard discount) for any journey plus a fee for their costs.

 

[cornsudahpunah]

Whether GTR think these extra journeys are fraudulent probably depends on exactly what you told them (or if they notice the lack of a scan on entry at St Pancras). You'll have to wait for the letter and see whether they just mention the one recent journey, or whether they take these into account too. Assuming you want to arrange an out of court settlement, you should expect to pay the full fare (regardless of what you've already paid, and without any railcard discount) for any journey plus a fee for their costs.

Thank you - it sounds like the best option is to just wait and see, and save up for the potential cost?

Do you think I should try to proactively reach out regarding the wrong name, or should I just wait it out until I get a letter?

Finally, I couldn't find examples of people being taken straight to court - do you know whether that has happened before?

I'll be sure to prepare a draft reply based on other threads in this forum in the meantime.

Thanks a lot.

 

[Haywain]

Whether GTR think these extra journeys are fraudulent probably depends on exactly what you told them (or if they notice the lack of a scan on entry at St Pancras).

I can’t see how they would see it any other way.

 

[MarlowDonkey]

I have paid using a TfL Oystercard, and I always tap in/out. All 44 journeys have all been from St Pancras as well, and not somewhere nearer WGC.

The Oystercard price to St Pancras would be the same as to Farringdon, would it not? That would presumably require heading to a gateline at St Pancras to make that the tap out point.

Another alternative would be to do Farringdon to Kings Cross St Pancras on the Circle/Met/H&C.

Both less convenient but seemingly the legal way to use a "Terminals" ticket rather than a "Thameslink" one. The "Terminals" ticket to WGC would still need to have been purchased before boarding or reboarding at St Pancras.

 

[Stargull]

I can’t see how they would see it any other way.

Well, if the OP didn't tell them that they always start from Farringdon, and they don't notice the lack of scan at St Pancras, then these might look like legitimate St Pancras to Welwyn. I agree that with all the facts they are entitled to conclude these were intentional ticket avoidance.

Though....

Imagine I'm on a Thameslink train having touched in at Whitechapel and Farringdon. I intend to get off at a station where contactless is valid - Finsbury Park, maybe. While on the train, I decide I actually want to go to Welwyn. If I purchase a ticket from an upcoming station (e.g. Finsbury Park before we get there), have I committed an offence? I would have had a valid ticket if checked at any point, but the TfL system would, I think, later close the journey without a further tap out as Whitechapel to Farringdon.

 

[cornsudahpunah]

The Oystercard price to St Pancras would be the same as to Farringdon, would it not? That would presumably require heading to a gateline at St Pancras to make that the tap out point.

Another alternative would be to do Farringdon to Kings Cross St Pancras on the Circle/Met/H&C.

Both less convenient but seemingly the legal way to use a "Terminals" ticket rather than a "Thameslink" one. The "Terminals" ticket to WGC would still need to have been purchased before boarding or reboarding at St Pancras.

Indeed, this has taught me that I have two proper options in the future:

1. Take the tube to any London Terminals, then tap out and use my train tickets to tap back in; or
2. Pay the premium convenience to tap out and take the train from Farringdon anyway...

This is a very expensive lesson... But lessons learnt. Thank you for the reply!

Well, if the OP didn't tell them that they always start from Farringdon, and they don't notice the lack of scan at St Pancras, then these might look like legitimate St Pancras to Welwyn. I agree that with all the facts they are entitled to conclude these were intentional ticket avoidance.

Should I be concerned about them pursuing a potential fraud investigation, or would it be the less serious (still expensive) railway byelaws/regulation of railways act?

---

Finally, should I reach out to gtr.prosecutions@gtrailway.com to correct the name they have on file, or should I just wait and see for their letter to come?

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Finally, should I reach out to gtr.prosecutions@gtrailway.com to correct the name they have on file, or should I just wait and see for their letter to come?

As long as the version of your name that they have is close enough to your usual name to make sure any correspondence gets to you, you don't need to worry.

Although this isn't what you asked, for the benefit of anyone else who looks at this thread, a misspelling of your name won't stop the railway being able to pursue you - even in court. It's my understanding that under English and Welsh law there's nothing 'special' about a name - it's just a convenient way of identifying someone, and it's easier to talk about 'Fred Jones' than it is to say 'male human, aged around 35, about 2.2 m tall with red hair and hazel eyes, no left arm and prominent ears'. Often the name by itself is enough to identify someone: if not adding their date of birth or place of residence should be good enough.

 

[furlong]

So first work out what you actually paid for each journey in total compared with what you should have paid (morning and evening, based on normal time of travel).
Is your railcard registered to the Oystercard for a discount or not?

What were you charged Whitechapel to Farringdon in the morning and in the evening?
What were you paying as the Anytime return from St. Pancras to Welwyn Garden City?

What should you have paid in total based on the different methods of paying?
- Using a paper ticket for the complete journey?
- Switching from Oyster to e-ticket at Farringdon without leaving any gap?
- Getting off at (a specific station on the route), touching out and using an e-ticket from that point onwards, but thereby having to get on the train behind and potentially delaying your journey (but not necessarily if you were watching trains not destined for Welwyn Garden City pass at Farringdon)?
- Using contactless (no railcard) for the complete journey?

 

[fandroid]

As the total paid was a legitimate overall fare for the journey (just avoiding the jumping on and off trains at STP) it can be argued that you got no financial gain at all, so a fraud charge would be amazingly unlikely. (They might threaten it, though)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Oct 2025 ==

I think the sad truth here is that this looks like a brilliant money earner for GTR. You broke the law with those very late purchases of tickets on board the trains. That hands all the cards to GTR. They can now demand large sums of money, on top of the otherwise legitimate fares you have already paid. Once you've done all the sums to estimate what they might charge, it's worth considering what approach might best limit how much all this costs you.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Oct 2025 ==

- Getting off at (a specific station on the route), touching out and using an e-ticket from that point onwards, but thereby having to get on the train behind and potentially delaying your journey (but not necessarily if you were watching trains not destined for Welwyn Garden City pass at Farringdon)?
- Using contactless (no railcard) for the complete journey?

This gives the basis for what you should do from now on to limit your costs.

Most important: Buy your St. Pancras to Welwyn Garden City tickets before you start your journey! Now, using Oyster, travel from Whitechapel to St. Pancras changing at Farringdon (or staying on the Tube) for St. Pancras. If changing, catch the first train and do not tap out at Farringdon. Get off at St. Pancras, nip up and tap out at the gates. Immediately turn round and use your eticket to re-enter. Catch Thameslink to Welwyn.
If you stay on the Tube from Whitechapel to St. Pancras you'll have to tap out at St. Pancras anyway.