Eleanor LNER Doll

[Sad Sprinter]

The rather scary 'see-saw rocking horses' in our London County Council park playground c. 1960 were evidently made by a company called Wicksteed (there was a little metal plate). You could get chucked off if you weren't careful, and I saw a boy get a broken arm. [UPDATE], yes, they are in Kettering, founded 1918, they still make them, with the caveat that *This unit does not conform to EN1176 however we still permit the sale of this product due to its history and valid risk assessments*

That rings a bell, I think they did my primary school playground equipment 20 years ago!

 

[Dr Hoo]

That rings a bell, I think they did my primary school playground equipment 20 years ago!

Just to show a slight connection with the subject of this thread; Wicksteed Park had its own cuddly mascot long before LNER and Eleanor were thought of.

 

[birchesgreen]

I agree with him

Me three.

Of course LNER are welcome to pay me anyway.

 

[moleman212]

Me three.

Of course LNER are welcome to pay me anyway.

What's right for thee isn't necessarily for me.

I don't really get train advertising anyway. Most people on the LNER route travel with LNER because it's either their only choice, or one of a limited number of choices. It's not like choosing a type of biscuit. They are mostly preaching to the converted anyway. A muppet with a bizarre backing track won't change anyone's mind.

 

[AlterEgo]

What's right for thee isn't necessarily for me.

I don't really get train advertising anyway. Most people on the LNER route travel with LNER because it's either their only choice, or one of a limited number of choices. It's not like choosing a type of biscuit. They are mostly preaching to the converted anyway. A muppet with a bizarre backing track won't change anyone's mind.

So what then, they shouldn't do any marketing because they simply exist?

 

[sh24]

What's right for thee isn't necessarily for me.

I don't really get train advertising anyway. Most people on the LNER route travel with LNER because it's either their only choice, or one of a limited number of choices. It's not like choosing a type of biscuit. They are mostly preaching to the converted anyway. A muppet with a bizarre backing track won't change anyone's mind.

So advertising and marketing has played zero role in increasing rail market share between London and Edinburgh?

 

[norbitonflyer]

What's right for thee isn't necessarily for me.

I don't really get train advertising anyway. Most people on the LNER route travel with LNER because it's either their only choice, or one of a limited number of choices.

The competition is road, and the advertising does make that point with a train whizzing past a motorway. GWR's "Five go...." advertising is more aimed at persuading people to make leisure trips that they might not otherwise make at all.

 

[moleman212]

So advertising and marketing has played zero role in increasing rail market share between London and Edinburgh?

The competition is road, and the advertising does make that point with a train whizzing past a motorway. GWR's "Five go...." advertising is more aimed at persuading people to make leisure trips that they might not otherwise make at all.

I'd say people who already want to get a train, do. And those who don't, don't.

As regards rail market share, it will all come down to price and convenience, not who advertises.

And you are confusing a mode of transport with the operator of the transport. LNER has nothing to do with say, Lumo's apparent success.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Oct 2025 ==

So what then, they shouldn't do any marketing because they simply exist?

I'd say each individual train company has little to gain from simply advertising they exist with some brash music. They would gain more by saying WHERE they go. Or advertise what people get in first class.

With BR it was all about advertising price, convenience and competing against the road. With individual train companies they want to steer customers to their train company only. It's a different concept and one I'd argue LNER hasn't really grasped with its multitude of managers.

 

[birchesgreen]

I'd say people who already want to get a train, do. And those who don't, don't.

As regards rail market share, it will all come down to price and convenience, not who advertises.

And you are confusing a mode of transport with the operator of the transport. LNER has nothing to do with say, Lumo's apparent success.

Marketing and advertising isn't cheap (i worked in the industry for nearly 20 years). If it didn't work then companies wouldn't pay for it.

 

[moleman212]

Marketing and advertising isn't cheap (i worked in the industry for nearly 20 years). If it didn't work then companies wouldn't pay for it.

I work in PR and advertising so I'm not ignorant of this. The fact is, LNER won't be aware of whether any uptick is due to advertising or not. The Virgin mentality is still present at the company.

 

[birchesgreen]

I work in PR and advertising so I'm not ignorant of this. The fact is, LNER won't be aware of whether any uptick is due to advertising or not. The Virgin mentality is still present at the company.

They arn't paying for our coke habits for fun.

(Diet coke obviously)

 

[Mikey C]

I assume with GBR that the TV advertising will become harmonised. Long distance services on LNER, Avanti and GWR are all basically selling the same product, with the same benefits over road and flying, so you don't need separate campaigns for each.

By all means have separate and focused local advertising, but that's far cheaper, and likely to be in local media.

 

[jon0844]

What's right for thee isn't necessarily for me.

I don't really get train advertising anyway. Most people on the LNER route travel with LNER because it's either their only choice, or one of a limited number of choices. It's not like choosing a type of biscuit. They are mostly preaching to the converted anyway. A muppet with a bizarre backing track won't change anyone's mind.

All companies need to spend money on marketing. Even small businesses that may not spend money on advertising and go for 'word of mouth' still need to invest in good customer support if they want to remain in business. Almost no business can spend absolutely nothing and just rely on people always giving them their custom.

Look at how much money Coke spends every year, just to promote the brand that I am pretty sure everyone already knows about. Why do they do it if we all know what Coca Cola is?

The idea of privatising rail was to try and increase usage by those who don't have to travel. Commuters will always commute and pretty much pay whatever they have to pay, but expanding off peak and leisure services is where there was a huge potential for growth (and profit). Now leisure is more important than ever as people commute less or hybrid work and travel off peak.

People also have a limited amount of disposable income, and what little money they have can be spent on loads of different things. Maybe buying goods online, or going out to a local restaurant, the cinema, bowling, maybe saving for a holiday or doing up their home. Companies advertise to try and get you to spend some of that money with them. Train companies want to encourage you to get out and travel, maybe do a city break or go to the beach - or whatever - and instead of driving, why not take the train? People know trains exist, but seeing an ad might just make someone decide at that moment to give it a try. Maybe they forgot where the trains go to, or didn't think of it when considering various ideas.

I have no idea on any given weekend, bank holiday, or half term, how many train travellers are regulars versus those who are travelling for the first time in ages.. but I see that advertising IS vital or else people will spend their money on something else.

Given many TOCs promote travel for exploring other towns and cities, this also has benefits to those local economies too. If I go to York for just one day, I'm almost certainly going to spend some money there. So those towns and cities also benefit from the marketing, which is why local businesses and organisations often partner with travel companies to promote themselves.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Oct 2025 ==

I assume with GBR that the TV advertising will become harmonised. Long distance services on LNER, Avanti and GWR are all basically selling the same product, with the same benefits over road and flying, so you don't need separate campaigns for each.

By all means have separate and focused local advertising, but that's far cheaper, and likely to be in local media.

There's a good chance they'll still do regional campaigns like now, but perhaps also do national advertising for the whole GB Railway brand. Assuming the lines retain their individual naming and branding for some time (there's surely no money to rename and repaint every train and station in the UK) then I'd say very little will change - except perhaps the Government controlling the purse strings even more than now.

But surely any sensible Government will realise that it needs to market the railway if it wants to increase revenue. Obviously if Reform got in, then the outcome might be somewhat different as I doubt they'd want to promote rail at all.

 

[GordonT]

But surely any sensible Government will realise that it needs to market the railway if it wants to increase revenue. Obviously if Reform got in, then the outcome might be somewhat different as I doubt they'd want to promote rail at all.

They might, however, try to claim some ability of making the trains run on time.

 

[tarabomp]

Always made me think she's somehow related to the Dolmio advert puppets

 

[Horizon22]

I'd say people who already want to get a train, do. And those who don't, don't.

As regards rail market share, it will all come down to price and convenience, not who advertises.

And you are confusing a mode of transport with the operator of the transport. LNER has nothing to do with say, Lumo's apparent success.

That is a very naive way at looking at the way marketing and publicity works. Whilst this forum is hardly representative, and personally I don't think I am influenced much, there's a reason brands spend a considerable amount of budget on marketing.

 

[moleman212]

All companies need to spend money on marketing. Even small businesses that may not spend money on advertising and go for 'word of mouth' still need to invest in good customer support if they want to remain in business. Almost no business can spend absolutely nothing and just rely on people always giving them their custom.

Look at how much money Coke spends every year, just to promote the brand that I am pretty sure everyone already knows about. Why do they do it if we all know what Coca Cola is?

The idea of privatising rail was to try and increase usage by those who don't have to travel. Commuters will always commute and pretty much pay whatever they have to pay, but expanding off peak and leisure services is where there was a huge potential for growth (and profit). Now leisure is more important than ever as people commute less or hybrid work and travel off peak.

People also have a limited amount of disposable income, and what little money they have can be spent on loads of different things. Maybe buying goods online, or going out to a local restaurant, the cinema, bowling, maybe saving for a holiday or doing up their home. Companies advertise to try and get you to spend some of that money with them. Train companies want to encourage you to get out and travel, maybe do a city break or go to the beach - or whatever - and instead of driving, why not take the train? People know trains exist, but seeing an ad might just make someone decide at that moment to give it a try. Maybe they forgot where the trains go to, or didn't think of it when considering various ideas.

I have no idea on any given weekend, bank holiday, or half term, how many train travellers are regulars versus those who are travelling for the first time in ages.. but I see that advertising IS vital or else people will spend their money on something else.

Given many TOCs promote travel for exploring other towns and cities, this also has benefits to those local economies too. If I go to York for just one day, I'm almost certainly going to spend some money there. So those towns and cities also benefit from the marketing, which is why local businesses and organisations often partner with travel companies to promote themselves.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Oct 2025 ==



There's a good chance they'll still do regional campaigns like now, but perhaps also do national advertising for the whole GB Railway brand. Assuming the lines retain their individual naming and branding for some time (there's surely no money to rename and repaint every train and station in the UK) then I'd say very little will change - except perhaps the Government controlling the purse strings even more than now.

But surely any sensible Government will realise that it needs to market the railway if it wants to increase revenue. Obviously if Reform got in, then the outcome might be somewhat different as I doubt they'd want to promote rail at all.

You are forgetting that people have a choice over what type of coke/ fizzy drink to purchase.

Many don't have a much of a choice over what train company to use.

I'm saying that LNER's current advertising, which basically revolves on showing that they exist and doesn't explicitly market or advertise any of the positives of travelling by LNER, isn't effective. It might tick off some passengers who see LNER as being expensive and splashing money on adverts ("They need to pay for the adverts somehow"...)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Oct 2025 ==

That is a very naive way at looking at the way marketing and publicity works. Whilst this forum is hardly representative, and personally I don't think I am influenced much, there's a reason brands spend a considerable amount of budget on marketing.

So what do you think the "Call to Action" is of the LNER advert?

It doesn't say where they travel to and from. Doesn't mention prices. Doesn't highlight journey times...

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Oct 2025 ==

A far more effective and measurable method of advert effectiveness would be to provide a promo code linked to the advert, especially if it were an online ad where unique codes could be generated.

 

[Horizon22]

So what do you think the "Call to Action" is of the LNER advert?

It doesn't say where they travel to and from. Doesn't mention prices. Doesn't highlight journey times...

Adverts don't have to be direct - it is often intended to give a "feeling". One of the shots of the advert literally has them whizzing past a traffic jam on a motorway. At the end it also briefly lists destinations. The overriding theme appears to be "freedom" - freedom to move around, order drinks and food from your seat, spend time with family, be free to do business etc. The TV advert will be part of a multi-media strategy.

Whether any of this is about the reality of the product is not really the point - it's an advert and its marketing. Again I am often pretty cynical when it comes to advertising, but then I am not the target audience.

If you don't like the advert or don't "get" it, that's fine, but that doesn't mean the whole concept is invalid. There are people who do these jobs full time and have studied market research for decades.

 

[moleman212]

Adverts don't have to be direct - it is often intended to give a "feeling". One of the shots of the advert literally has them whizzing past a traffic jam on a motorway. At the end it also briefly lists destinations. The overriding theme appears to be "freedom" - freedom to move around, order drinks and food from your seat, spend time with family, be free to do business etc. The TV advert will be part of a multi-media strategy.

Whether any of this is about the reality of the product is not really the point - it's an advert and its marketing. Again I am often pretty cynical when it comes to advertise, but then I am not the target audience.

You seem to remember far more of the advert than I do though

My point stands that in order to push people on to rail, they need to EXPLICITLY state advantages. A dancing muppet doesn't state Does that York to London is doable in less than 2 hours by LNER. The muppet doesn't state the cheapest advance ticket prices. Would people be interested to know these metrics to make a purchase? Of course, yes.

 

[Horizon22]

You seem to remember far more of the advert than I do though

Mainly because I keep seeing it! It seems to be on YouTube adverts a fair bit. I probably do fit into the demographic somewhat, but LNER don't know how cynical I am haha.

My point stands that in order to push people on to rail, they need to EXPLICITLY state advantages. A dancing muppet doesn't state Does that York to London is doable in less than 2 hours by LNER. The muppet doesn't state the cheapest advance ticket prices. Would people be interested to know these metrics to make a purchase? Of course, yes.

They evidently do not.

 

[simonw]

You are forgetting that people have a choice over what type of coke/ fizzy drink to purchase.

Many don't have a much of a choice over what train company to use.

I'm saying that LNER's current advertising, which basically revolves on showing that they exist and doesn't explicitly market or advertise any of the positives of travelling by LNER, isn't effective. It might tick off some passengers who see LNER as being expensive and splashing money on adverts ("They need to pay for the adverts somehow"...)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Oct 2025 ==



So what do you think the "Call to Action" is of the LNER advert?

It doesn't say where they travel to and from. Doesn't mention prices. Doesn't highlight journey times...

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Oct 2025 ==

A far more effective and measurable method of advert effectiveness would be to provide a promo code linked to the advert, especially if it were an online ad where unique codes could be generated.

It doesn't list all calling points, but does list some.

 

[moleman212]

Mainly because I keep seeing it! It seems to be on YouTube adverts a fair bit. I probably do fit into the demographic somewhat, but LNER don't know how cynical I am haha.



They evidently do not.

Evidently? I'll admit I'm unaware of LNER's business info but it would be difficult to pinpoint any booms in revenue to an advert.

 

[Lewisham2221]

You are forgetting that people have a choice over what type of coke/ fizzy drink to purchase.

Many don't have a much of a choice over what train company to use.

I'm saying that LNER's current advertising, which basically revolves on showing that they exist and doesn't explicitly market or advertise any of the positives of travelling by LNER, isn't effective. It might tick off some passengers who see LNER as being expensive and splashing money on adverts ("They need to pay for the adverts somehow"...)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Oct 2025 ==



So what do you think the "Call to Action" is of the LNER advert?

It doesn't say where they travel to and from. Doesn't mention prices. Doesn't highlight journey times...

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Oct 2025 ==

A far more effective and measurable method of advert effectiveness would be to provide a promo code linked to the advert, especially if it were an online ad where unique codes could be generated.

Do LNER not receive commission of some sort for tickets sold through their website? It's clearly a lucrative enough business model for the likes of Trainline et al + so just planting the seed of LNER in people's heads, to associate with train travel, could (and presumably does?) lead to people using the LNER website/app to plan their journey and purchase tickets, even if the journey doesn't include any travel on LNER services

 

[jon0844]

On platforms like YouTube and other social media, it's possible to manage your campaigns with extremely high precision - and also control when ads show.

This means that if there's a weekend of predicted nice weather, and no engineering work, LNER could target certain people (including certain demographics) to promote their train services. It might not be for London to Edinburgh travel, but localised for stations around, say, York or Newcastle.

Thameslink also do campaigns to get people to explore places like Cambridge or Brighton, amongst other places.

As I said before, we all know these places exist and most of us know what train operators exist, but it's about catching someone's eye when they might be wondering what to do this weekend or when the next holiday period is. This might get someone to decide to visit a town (especially if there might be an event on, such as Christmas markets in the coming weeks) when they hadn't really planned to before.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

Being memorable doesn't necessarily help if people don't get a proper idea of your product, and she is supposed to be showing the the benefits of rail travel, the 'this and that'. It's a common problem to be avoided in advertising. I realised, after someone mentioned it above, and after seeing the ad dozens of times, that every time I was focusing on Eleanor, not what she was supposed to be showing me, with the exception of the traffic. I'd not taken note of anything inside the train until I decided to consciously ignore her. Now, it's something you can get away with if you've a good enough brand with good enough goodwill, but don't think any rail company comes even close to that now.

ITV Digital's monkey did a great job of selling woolly monkeys, but a lousy job of selling set top boxes; people sent the boxes back and kept the monkey; in the end a job lot of monkeys was the most valuable thing about ITV Digital!

The ITV Digital's Monkey is now advertising PG Tips! Speaking of mascots and puppets, I am suprised that GWR haven't decided to wheel out Westward and Television South West puppet rabbit called Gus Hunnybun for promotions in Devon, Cornwall and Somerset or Top, Sticky and Bottom out of Meridian's Wizadora for promotions in the Thames Valley - basically reusing the puppets from years gone by but for advertising purporses whilst also being aimed at those who remember said puppets who'll now be aged between 34 and 48.

 

[dk1]

I’ve now got that catchy jingle in my head and am singing “go dis, go dat, go dis, go dat” whilst making breakfast

 

[43096]

Adverts don't have to be direct - it is often intended to give a "feeling". One of the shots of the advert literally has them whizzing past a traffic jam on a motorway. At the end it also briefly lists destinations. The overriding theme appears to be "freedom" - freedom to move around, order drinks and food from your seat, spend time with family, be free to do business etc. The TV advert will be part of a multi-media strategy.

Whether any of this is about the reality of the product is not really the point - it's an advert and its marketing. Again I am often pretty cynical when it comes to advertising, but then I am not the target audience.

Well it clearly isn't about the reality. The reality is more that you're sat in the vestibule with Jeremy Corbyn because a) it is more comfortable than sitting on a metal bar and b) there's probably two trainloads on the service as the knitting has collapsed again and it's three hours late. InterCity's "relax" it certainly isn't - that at least was somewhat closer to the truth.

 

[WAO]

I’ve now got that catchy jingle in my head and am singing “go dis, go dat, go dis, go dat” whilst making breakfast

Me too.

It shows that the ad works.

WAO

 

[dk1]

Me too.

It shows that the ad works.

WAO

So true. The power of advertising.

 

[AlterEgo]

I work in PR and advertising so I'm not ignorant of this. The fact is, LNER won't be aware of whether any uptick is due to advertising or not. The Virgin mentality is still present at the company.

There is no way you work in advertising if you think advertising campaigns can't be tracked and any revenue uptick is a mystery.