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How many trains have you been involved with putting into service?
Finessing ATO performance, particularly with Seltrac, is an art and still causes issues with the legacy DLR stock and on the Jubilee, Northern and Sub-Surface lines. For a fleet that has largely been tested in summer, and is still in a ‘soft launch’ phase, it is entirely expected that there will be real world issues. The only way you can solve ATO adhesion issues on real world conditions is… in the real world.
If that's the best the project team could achieve in the near three years since the first was delivered, here in the "real world", no wonder we are where we are with this project. Having used the DLR most days/weeks since the day it opened, non-communication is not an issue, it's been many years since I encountered it.
We had the DLR weekend service to Stratford Westfield wrecked last year in the shopping weeks leading up to Christmas, supposedly for 'final testing'. Did nothing get done? Are we going to have to put up with the same thing this year? Sorry folks, but I am completely unimpressed with the way the whole project has been handled here, not least the complete radio silence on what the ever-continuing difficulties are.
As of late KAD have started keeping most of the depot run-ins in service right up to the last station before the depot reception road, so Poplar and All Saints for Poplar Depot, Beckton and Gallions Reach for Beckton Depot.
As of late KAD have started keeping most of the depot run-ins in service right up to the last station before the depot reception road, so Poplar and All Saints for Poplar Depot, Beckton and Gallions Reach for Beckton Depot.
What was it before? This seems like the best solution for me, I'm assuming the PSAs empty the train there and take it further. Did they previously terminate at Bank or Stratford or wherever it woud usually go then run empty? Or was like poplar the only terminating one?
I think that part of the issues being faced by the CAF B23 train is that automation is still new enough for unexpected issues to arise, and no matter the testing (etc.,) the introduction of trains built by a different train builder probably using electronics which feature different actual components and software which were (possibly) sourced from a different supplier than the original trains can be challenging.
Who remembers the Docklands Light Failway era when they had so many service problems that an emergency bus replacement service had to be introduced?
Apart from the DLR the only UK railway to have had a brand new fleet of trains introduced to an already automated service is the Victoria Line. But the Victoria line was using its original non-technical 'clockwork-era' automation which was a far less sophisticated form of train control. Also, (apart from the depot) the trains only travel in the climatic privacy of deep tube tunnels ... which means no need to test for operations in the wet, when rails are slippery from fallen leaves, etc.
I await the introduction of new trains to the Central line with trepidation. (That said, I will probably have moved home / elsewhere by then.)
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My YouTube film of my first ride in a B23 train is now ready for viewing. I have placed it in the photography section and hope that the link below will take you straight there.
Riding London Docklands Light Railway (DLR) B23 Train No. 209 on the first day that any of these trains entered passenger service - Tuesday 30th September 2025. My instant first impression after boarding was to notice just how quiet the train is (announcements and door alert noises excepted)...
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The specification asked for 12 doors (if I remember correctly). CAF worked out 5 cars would be optimal for the specified train length and the track geometry. 5 doesn't go into 12.
Dwell times go up the less doors you have. The new 5 cars are roughly equivalent in capacity to a previous set of 6 cars, which had 12 doors. If you're keeping the same size of train but have 2 less doors then how quickly people can board and alight decreases, so the trains have to dwell for longer, and the timetable slows down.
It might well have been cheaper. But I think awarding the contract and then relaxing the requirements could risk unsuccessful bidders saying 'Hey, it's not fair that you're letting only CAF resubmit their price on the basis of 10 doorways, because it we had been able to bid on the basis of 10 doorways we might have won'.
Dwell times go up the less doors you have. The new 5 cars are roughly equivalent in capacity to a previous set of 6 cars, which had 12 doors. If you're keeping the same size of train but have 2 less doors then how quickly people can board and alight decreases, so the trains have to dwell for longer, and the timetable slows down.
It might well have been cheaper. But I think awarding the contract and then relaxing the requirements could risk unsuccessful bidders saying 'Hey, it's not fair that you're letting only CAF resubmit their price on the basis of 10 doorways, because it we had been able to bid on the basis of 10 doorways we might have won'.
What was it before? This seems like the best solution for me, I'm assuming the PSAs empty the train there and take it further. Did they previously terminate at Bank or Stratford or wherever it woud usually go then run empty? Or was like poplar the only terminating one?
I moved away from the Isle of Dogs five years ago, but my memory was that terminating trains at the end of the night always ran to the last station before the depot. It was strange seeing trains going from Island Gardens to Gallions Reach because they were headed to Beckton Depot
DLR depot trains previously did run in service to (and from) either Poplar or Gallions Reach, but a while ago policy changed and they ran empty with the lights off, even all the way from Lewisham to Beckton. There were some previously convenient services at the end of the evening peak that gave direct runs from say South Quay to Canning Town, avoiding two intermediate changes. Was advised these were closed to passengers because they were beyond the basic committed service, and if they were delayed by being behind normal services, or even cancelled, which of course was more likely for these, this impacted on and diluted the punctuality statistics. They still normally ran, of course, but empty.
I presume a more sensible approach to managing the statistics has now been found. The next one to fix will be claiming 99% reliability in large self-congratulatory posters on stations when for most of the weekends of the period in question it was impossible to get from one end of the line to the other on Saturdays or Sundays because of an enormous sequence of weekend closures..
It has all been rather quiet lately. I haven't seen a huge amounts of testing happening on the Beckton line this week, mainly just 201 going round every now and then. Any ideas when the next unit will come into service? Iirc, it was planned to have 4 in service by the end of October.
Does anyone know if they're going to completely convert the woolwich-stratford intl route to B23 first, or just pick random diagrams and swap them over? Is there a target for the number of units to be in service by the end of the year?
Does anyone know if they're going to completely convert the woolwich-stratford intl route to B23 first, or just pick random diagrams and swap them over?
There is more work needed before the B23s are allowed to run west of Canning Town during the day so they will be just Beckton / Stratford International / Woolwich for now.
There is more work needed before the B23s are allowed to run west of Canning Town during the day so they will be just Beckton / Stratford International / Woolwich for now.
It has all been rather quiet lately. I haven't seen a huge amounts of testing happening on the Beckton line this week, mainly just 201 going round every now and then. Any ideas when the next unit will come into service? Iirc, it was planned to have 4 in service by the end of October.
Does anyone know if they're going to completely convert the woolwich-stratford intl route to B23 first, or just pick random diagrams and swap them over? Is there a target for the number of units to be in service by the end of the year?
They can go anywhere in that area, with the Beckton to Canning Town shuttles currently not operating that leaves Stratford Int. to Woolwich Arsenal as the only timetabled route for B23s to take up at present.
It's also been in service on the Beckton branch while running out/into the depot.
Is it about software fixes or do they need some hardware works on those other sections? Do we know when they will be able to run new trains to Bank and Lewisham?
Yes, between Stratford and Woolwich at present. This morning's 6:55 diagram from Stratford International was indeed the new train. It definitely feels smoother quieter and less jerky than the older stock. I might be mistaken, but without checking the maximum speeds, it did 'feel' faster, and certainly the acceleration was faster. I didn't notice any swaying as per the older stock, but then I might not have been above the bogies where it would have been more noticeable.
They can go anywhere in that area, with the Beckton to Canning Town shuttles currently not operating that leaves Stratford Int. to Woolwich Arsenal as the only timetabled route for B23s to take up at present.
It's also been in service on the Beckton branch while running out/into the depot.
Yes, between Stratford and Woolwich at present. This morning's 6:55 diagram from Stratford International was indeed the new train. It definitely feels smoother quieter and less jerky than the older stock. I might be mistaken, but without checking the maximum speeds, it did 'feel' faster, and certainly the acceleration was faster. I didn't notice any swaying as per the older stock, but then I might not have been above the bogies where it would have been more noticeable.
Grabbed a ride on it this evening on the booked diagram. The front seats surprised me for being a full height back, and the ride was no worse than the predecessors. Overall, it felt like a decent new train to update DLR.
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