Trivia: examples of rail vehicles built before there was a need for them?

[Sun Chariot]

The North Eastern Railway 1500v DC EE1 electric locomotive number 13, was built prior to any electrification between York and Newcastle - its raison d'etre - and so the locomotive was broken up without turning a wheel in revenue service.

The Rail Operating Group's class 93 - from what I read in the thread on this forum - does seem to be an example of supply the product before demand exists for it.

Other than prototypes, experimentals or trials*, are there any other examples of rail vehicles built before a need.for them?

* I include BR's wagons for the "Milkliner" brief trial service.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Other than prototypes, experimentals or trials*, are there any other examples of rail vehicles built before a need.for them?

* I include BR's wagons for the "Milkliner" brief trial service.

I can think of a few to the contrary - supplied just as the need for them dried up. The Class 14 "Teddy Bears" being the best known example - the light freight duties they had been designed for were rapidly disappearing thanks to the Beeching measures.

 

[xotGD]

Other than prototypes, experimentals or trials*, are there any other examples of rail vehicles built before a need.for them?

Nightstar:

Nightstar (train) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Nightstar was a proposed overnight sleeper train service from various parts of the United Kingdom to destinations in mainland Europe, via the Channel Tunnel, in the mid 1990s. To run alongside the Eurostar, and north of London day-time Regional Eurostar services which were never operational, the Nightstar was the last part in a proposed round-the-clock passenger train utilisation of the Channel Tunnel.

The Nightstar service was to have been operated by European Night Services, a company mostly owned by European Passenger Services (the then-named operator of the Eurostar service).[1]

After rejection of various British ideas for the service that was to become the British Rail Class 373 Eurostar train—which eventually was created from the existing French TGV scaled for a British loading gauge—the Nightstar concept emerged as an individual locomotive-hauled passenger train. While some carriages were built, the project was cancelled in July 1997 for lack of commercial viability. All of the stock was eventually sold to Via Rail in Canada, forming its Renaissance train fleet. ...

 

[D1511]

Nightstar:

Nightstar (train) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I was going to suggest the Class 92......partially intended to operate trains that never materialised, and left without much to do, apart from the sleeper.

 

[Sun Chariot]

I was going to suggest the Class 92......partially intended to operate trains that never materialised, and left without much to do, apart from the sleeper.

I used to see 92s with freight services along the Kent main line, toward the coast.
Often in front of European registered car transport double-deck tri-axle wagons; also hauling European ferry vans.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Oct 2025 ==

Nightstar:

Oh yes, good call. I only ever saw one rake on trials.

I also had in mind Stagecoach's short-lived pairs of carriages, attached to (and providing Stagecoach's seating on) existing Anglo-Scottish sleeper services.
However, that failed because British Rail's commercial terms to Stagecoach weren't viable; not due to a lack of passenger demand.
I photographed two of the gaudily-painted Mk2f conversions at Willesden carriage sidings, before their withdrawal.

 

[The exile]

I also had in mind Stagecoach's short-lived pairs of carriages, attached to (and providing Stagecoach's seating on) existing Anglo-Scottish sleeper services.
However, that failed because British Rail's commercial terms to Stagecoach weren't viable; not due to a lack of passenger demand.
I photographed two of the gaudily-painted Mk2f conversions at Willesden carriage sidings, before their withdrawal.

Hardly surprising that BR’s terms were not conducive to an operation that was in competition with its own overnight seated accommodation!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Hardly surprising that BR’s terms were not conducive to an operation that was in competition with its own overnight seated accommodation!

BR didn't at that point offer their own overnight seated option. They were going to withdraw it entirely (and in the event it was withdrawn for many years until ScotRail after privatisation reinstated it by replacing Mk1 full brake vehicles with the brake unclassified open ones) but Stagecoach wanted a go first.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Nightstar:

They were built for a specific purpose that never materialised. Not quite the same as the 93s, for which no specific purpose was identified before they were built.

I think the Class 18s probably meet that definition too.

 

[The exile]

BR didn't at that point offer their own overnight seated option. They were going to withdraw it entirely (and in the event it was withdrawn for many years until ScotRail after privatisation reinstated it by replacing Mk1 full brake vehicles with the brake unclassified open ones) but Stagecoach wanted a go first.

Can’t have been long gone… (but I suppose that is what prompted Souter to dip his toe in the water.

 

[frankmoh]

Other than prototypes, experimentals or trials*, are there any other examples of rail vehicles built before a need for them?

* I include BR's wagons for the "Milkliner" brief trial service.

On a similar note, the 508s were built for Merseyrail but at the start of their life they were diverted to the South West because they had withdrawn older trains before the replacements were ready.

This would not be the last time the Southwest withdrew trains before the replacements were ready.

 

[Sun Chariot]

On a similar note, the 508s were built for Merseyrail but at the start of their life they were diverted to the South West because they had withdrawn older trains before the replacements were ready.

This would not be the last time the Southwest withdrew trains before the replacements were ready.

Yes but they were built for the required purpose, they weren't tintroduced with no underlying demand for their existence.

 

[The exile]

On a similar note, the 508s were built for Merseyrail but at the start of their life they were diverted to the South West because they had withdrawn older trains before the replacements were ready.

This would not be the last time the Southwest withdrew trains before the replacements were ready.

Were they? They were built as 4 car units, whereas Merseyrail operated on a 3/6 basis.

 

[frankmoh]

Were they? They were built as 4 car units, whereas Merseyrail operated on a 3/6 basis.

They were, to compliment the 507 fleet and remove the 503s. The removed trailer cars were used on the 455/7s. The 5xx designation gives it away.

 

[norbitonflyer]

They were, to compliment the 507 fleet and remove the 503s. The removed trailer cars were used on the 455/7s. The 5xx designation gives it away.

Not necessarily - the 455s were to have been 510s

I am not convinced that at the time the 508s were ordered the decision to go away from the PEP-type to the Mk 3-derived 210/317/455 range, so there could ahve been further orders for 507s and 508s to augment the original Merseyside and SW division fleets.

 

[181]

BR didn't at that point offer their own overnight seated option. They were going to withdraw it entirely (and in the event it was withdrawn for many years until ScotRail after privatisation reinstated it by replacing Mk1 full brake vehicles with the brake unclassified open ones) but Stagecoach wanted a go first.

Can’t have been long gone… (but I suppose that is what prompted Souter to dip his toe in the water.

My recollection is that there were only a few years without seated overnight coaches -- from about 1992 to sometime maybe in the second half of the 1990s. (Does anyone know more accurate dates?).