Proposed new Channel Tunnel services discussion

[StephenHunter]

Sleeper train?

 

[LLivery]

From trains to/from the UK currently? None

Like Kent politicians, the French side are also unhappy with Eurostar on that:

[FR to EN Translation]: The mayors of Calais and Boulogne-sur-Mer in Pas-de-Calais want to put pressure on the state to allow Eurostar trains to return to Fréthun station. They shared a statement on social media on September 10, 2025. Significant economic gains are at stake.

Will the Eurostar return to Calais-Fréthun? This is what Frédéric Cuvillier and Natacha Bouchart, mayors of Boulogne-sur-Mer and Calais respectively, are fervently hoping. The city officials are up in arms against the railway company, which has not served the station since 2020.

They published a joint statement on their social networks on Wednesday, September 10, 2025. " We've been campaigning for the return of the Eurostar for several months, and very concretely nothing is happening ," the mayor of Calais (Miscellaneous right), Natacha Bouchart, impatiently told our journalist.

"We consider this to be detrimental to economic development and the attractiveness of the coastal strip ," she adds. The company's arguments are that it is too costly and that it saves three minutes by not stopping in Calais.

" It's not justified, we really think they don't want to pay for customs and checks at the station, but it was designed for that, like in Lille or Paris ," adds Natacha Bouchart. Indeed, passengers on Eurostar trains from London have been subject to customs checks since 2021 due to Brexit .

The final argument is the lack of public support. A justification that Thaddée Segard, president of the Cercle Côte d'Opale Synergie association (for the development and promotion of the coastline and its inhabitants), finds difficult to accept.

"It 's crazy to only favour Parisians and Londoners when on the Opal Coast and in Kent we have 2.4 million inhabitants in total. That's huge, it's more than Paris itself," the president asserts. Before adding that " society is changing, we can clearly see that Londoners have fewer and fewer cars and young people are traveling by train ."

So, since the closure of the Fréthun stop, to get to the United Kingdom, locals have to get off at Lille or Paris by car or train, paying an additional ticket, take the Eurostar which goes back through the international station, without stopping, and finally arrive at their destination...

An " unheard of and absurd " situation , denounces the mayor of Calais. " In addition to being absurd, it's not really very ecological... ", " we are being unfairly penalized... Again!!!! €120 for a return ticket Boulogne - Lille for two... And then the Eurostar ," write Facebook users in reaction to the publication of the press release.

"We want to attract English tourists"​

However, the stop at Calais-Fréthun station would represent real potential for economic development for the coast. According to city officials, just two stops per day would be enough to recreate an economically attractive route.

With 400 trains (one-third of which are freight) passing through the tunnel every day, the economic benefits of the Channel Tunnel are already evident. Over the past 30 years, more than 8,000 jobs have been created in the department, and the Cité Europe shopping centre has sprung up in Coquelles near Calais , along with a hotel zone and a business centre.

Eurostar uses it daily to connect France to London. And this route is booming: it was the fastest-growing route in 2024, with an increase of 280,000 passengers, according to the railway company .

" We could make Calais-Fréthun and the Opal Coast a meeting or conference center, because it's not very expensive, in any case more competitive than England. We're 58 minutes from central London, and 1 hour 20 minutes from Paris, it's a strategically well-chosen location ," explains Thaddée Segard, president of Cercle Côte d'Opale Synergie.

Jean-Philippe Javello, general manager of the SPL Grand Calais Tourism and Culture, would also like to attract foreign customers. " It's growing rapidly, especially the British, who represent 17% of our customers, so that makes 140,000 English people."

" We could especially expand our short-stay offerings, particularly in London. There's a clientele out there for a weekend break that we're not currently targeting ," he explains. The director of the public company is in the process of winning back this clientele after Brexit and Covid.

His teams have been designing strong tourism programs in Calais, Boulogne, and Dunkirk for several years. "We want to attract English tourists, and we could fill the hotels during off-peak periods in France since they don't have the same vacation time as we do ," says Jean-Philippe Javello.

United England​

The Fréthun ruling is not alone in this fight. It turns out that our English neighbors are experiencing the same situation in Ashford, a large town in the county of Kent.

Following the press releases, Diccon Spain, vice-chair of the Labour group on Ashford Borough Council and political relations officer for Bring Back Euro Trains , expressed his full support for the French mayors' initiative.

" This is precisely where our governments should intervene to correct an imbalance that is costing our citizens dearly and has a direct impact on our current and future prosperity ," the city councilor wrote in English .

" I would like to remind you that Eurostar is owned by the SNCF, which in turn belongs to the state," adds the mayor of Calais. For the moment, the two councilors are trying to bring together as many local stakeholders as possible, mayors, businesses, and elected officials, to put pressure on the state and the Ministry of Transport.

They claim to have already obtained the support of the President of the Hauts-de-France Chamber of Commerce and Industry, as well as the President of the Region, Xavier Bertrand, and Getlink , the private European company holding the concession for the Channel Tunnel infrastructure until 2086 .

The two mayors are eagerly awaiting the arrival of the new president of the SNCF, who is expected to replace Jean-Pierre Farandou, who will head the railway company until the fall. New discussions may be held.

You probably could double them up actually, yes. I believe high-speed line platforms on the continent are long enough to accommodate a 404m long double set. The question is whether it would be worth the cost because I can't imagine a London to Milan rail route would demand more than a single set because of the time and distance. Perhaps it would though, the only way to know for sure is if Trenitalia go for it.

Speaking of Trenitalia, I welcome their proposal to reopen Ashford. Having a Kent parkway station will save many southerners from double-backing in London and in return would also relieve capacity at St. Pancras. Though I am lead to wonder whether they will be prepared to subsidise it's operation or whether it'll fall on the DfT to keep the station going. Eurostar don't seem to be willing to at the moment though, that's for sure.

Could get creative - Ashford, MLV, Lyon TGV, then split Milan & Marseille

South of France worked pre-Brexit, and hasn't returned since COVID. AIUI the Avignon Eurostar market was largely driven by Brits with homes in the south of France (either as immigrants or seasonal visitors), with travel being either the owners travelling between the UK and France or people going to visit them. Milan would be a totally different market.

I think Milan would be a very hot contender if the security check-in was not required. With it adding an hour to the effective journey time, I can't see the train being too competitive against the range of flights from the UK to northern Italy.

But are there enough people to fill a full-length train at a useful enough frequency to drive that market, especially since Brexit?

That's interesting, Marseilles did always feel like a surprising route.

In 2023, 2m flew between the London Airports and Milan, I'd guess you could get a train full or two a day. It's a shame intermediate calls are so difficult

 

[zwk500]

Could get creative - Ashford, MLV, Lyon TGV, then split Milan & Marseille

If you're running London to the Med, it's running non-stop between London and Paris.

In 2023, 2m flew between the London Airports and Milan, I'd guess you could get a train full or two a day. It's a shame intermediate calls are so difficult

2m equals between 5,500-6,000 a day depending on what annualisation factor you use. A Eurostar train takes 800-1,000 people at full capacity, and to have a hope of being economic needs to be full. Trying to get 1/6th of the total market to use a single rail departure is going to be ... challenging ... at best.

Of course, there will be some suppressed demand that the train might be able to realise, as well as grow the market through advertising. But I don't think it will be enough.

 

[cle]

Only one can go ahead for now, at least until someone decide to build another HS1 depot or do the service without any depot in the UK

As some have said, it could be an outpost/spoke, vs the core of the operation.

London-Milan has c.14 flights tomorrow (Monday) using a mix of A319/A320/B737s spaced at roughly hourly departures, with some tighter groupings, https://uk.flightaware.com/live/findflight?origin=ZLN&destination=LIMC
If we take 150 as the average passenger capacity, that's a current approximate market of 2k seats being offered per day, one-way. That's going to make it very hard to sustain the train at a level where the overheads for the terminals etc are amortised sufficiently at a competitive fare, but not impossible.

Add Turin to the mix and you have a few more. Whether to call at Lyon would be a factor too. But yes I agree Milan-London would be quite thin by itself - even if it does have a lot of business traffic. The MLV idea is a good shout. And possibly you leave a (intra-Schengen) set there if we're talking doubling up - keep the various passenger types apart.

 

[zwk500]

Add Turin to the mix and you have a few more. Whether to call at Lyon would be a factor too. But yes I agree Milan-London would be quite thin by itself - even if it does have a lot of business traffic.

Turin maybe, but the connection will be a factor putting peiple off especially if its a once a day service.

The MLV idea is a good shout. And possibly you leave a (intra-Schengen) set there if we're talking doubling up - keep the various passenger types apart.

Making things more complicated will not hell the financials. Either its pick up only on the way north or you do a Lille shuffle.

 

[TheGrew]

I do find the 'we will lose 3 minutes' argument a bit weak tbh. Especially for Ashford and Calais, where the train is slowing or speeding up from its tunnel speed limit. I would have thought in a post-Brexit world that stopping the Brussels terminators on this section would have a fairly negligible effect on overall journey time, even if those wanting Paris needed to change at Lille. I feel like these services are lighter-loaded than the Paris services anyway.

 

[TheWierdOne]

I do find the 'we will lose 3 minutes' argument a bit weak tbh. Especially for Ashford and Calais, where the train is slowing or speeding up from its tunnel speed limit. I would have thought in a post-Brexit world that stopping the Brussels terminators on this section would have a fairly negligible effect on overall journey time, even if those wanting Paris needed to change at Lille. I feel like these services are lighter-loaded than the Paris services anyway.

Given the move to distributed traction on High Speed trains (TGV aside who remain obsessed with locomotives) meaning acceleration can be a lot faster, couldn’t stopping trains be timetabled as the first of a series of trains through the tunnel, to be overtaken by one or more trains as they stop at Kent or Calais stations.

 

[zwk500]

I do find the 'we will lose 3 minutes' argument a bit weak tbh. Especially for Ashford and Calais, where the train is slowing or speeding up from its tunnel speed limit. I would have thought in a post-Brexit world that stopping the Brussels terminators on this section would have a fairly negligible effect on overall journey time, even if those wanting Paris needed to change at Lille. I feel like these services are lighter-loaded than the Paris services anyway.

Stopping a high-speed train costs more than 3 minutes.

Looking at this timetable: https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/read/19586317/view-timetable-eurostar
The baseline time is 1h22 St Pancras to Lille (08.04-10.26, minus 1h for time change)
Ashford on it's own costs 7 mins (06.57 dep StP, 09.26 dep Lille)
Ebbsfleet on it's own costs 6 mins (08.58-11.26), presumably because there's less distance off the top speed and the train is coming from 230kph not 300kph.

High-speed rail is incredibly sensitive to journey times, especially when around significant marketing boundaries (e.g. 1h58 to 2h01 is a lot more significant than 2h06 to 2h09). If you're not picking up reasonable amounts of passengers when you're stopped, it's not worth the time.

 

[TheGrew]

Given the move to distributed traction on High Speed trains (TGV aside who remain obsessed with locomotives) meaning acceleration can be a lot faster, couldn’t stopping trains be timetabled as the first of a series of trains through the tunnel, to be overtaken by one or more trains as they stop at Kent or Calais stations.

Quite, perhaps something more similar to the N700 Shinkansen would be better for stopping services.

Stopping a high-speed train costs more than 3 minutes.

Looking at this timetable: https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/read/19586317/view-timetable-eurostar
The baseline time is 1h22 St Pancras to Lille (08.04-10.26, minus 1h for time change)
Ashford on it's own costs 7 mins (06.57 dep StP, 09.26 dep Lille)
Ebbsfleet on it's own costs 6 mins (08.58-11.26), presumably because there's less distance off the top speed and the train is coming from 230kph not 300kph.

High-speed rail is incredibly sensitive to journey times, especially when around significant marketing boundaries (e.g. 1h58 to 2h01 is a lot more significant than 2h06 to 2h09). If you're not picking up reasonable amounts of passengers when you're stopped, it's not worth the time.

Fair enough, but I would also argue that Brussels in a post-Brexit world is a less important destination than it was, and even with stops, the London-Brussels journey would still be competitive with flying. I wouldn't look to slow down the longer Paris and Amsterdam services.

 

[Trainbike46]

Turin maybe, but the connection will be a factor putting peiple off especially if its a once a day service.

Making things more complicated will not hell the financials. Either its pick up only on the way north or you do a Lille shuffle.

Personally, I would do an MLV shuffle instead, and run non-stop between MLV and London. That way, intra-schengen traffic is possible between Milan and MLV (and any intermediate stations served between those two), and you get the (not insubstantial) London-MLV flow as well. Even though MLV didn't have UK border checks in the past, it is set up for checks so it shouldn't be too hard to enable an MLV shuffle.

 

[TheWierdOne]

Branson’s Virgin plots Manchester-Paris route to challenge Eurostar

Operator considers new direct services as it bids to secure Channel Tunnel access

www.telegraph.co.uk

Sir Richard Branson’s Virgin Trains is plotting to launch direct trains from Manchester to Paris as it seeks to challenge Eurostar.
The operator is considering launching services from English regions to Paris, Amsterdam and Brussels if it succeeds in securing access to the Channel Tunnel.
It is understood to be viewing routes from Birmingham and Manchester to the Continent as a potential growth option should it win the right to compete with Eurostar later this month.
Virgin bosses are believed to regard such routes as more likely to garner Department for Transport approval after the group’s plans to relaunch domestic services were rejected.

The business case for regional services through the Tunnel has not yet been assessed and the scheme would inevitably face significant infrastructure hurdles.
Trains would need to run via the crowded West Coast Main Line before diverting across north London along a track that would most likely require modifications to be used by high-speed trains, before joining the main Channel Tunnel route at Stratford.

Virgin will order 12 Avelia stream trains from Alstom if it gains access to the Tunnel, providing 20 daily services from St Pancras to Paris and to Amsterdam via Brussels, largely replicating Eurostar’s current footprint.
However, it is understood that a follow-on order has already been discussed with the French manufacturer to allow subsequent expansion.
Other possibilities for growth include running trains between Continental cities independent of London, as France, Italy, Spain and Germany open up to independent operators.

Virgin previously considered ordering Alstom’s two-floor Avelia Horizon model, but is understood to have decided against a double-decker because the stairs would have impacted service standards, such as the ability to serve at-seat meals.

Regional Eurostar by Virgin anyone?

 

[Trainbike46]

Branson’s Virgin plots Manchester-Paris route to challenge Eurostar

Operator considers new direct services as it bids to secure Channel Tunnel access

www.telegraph.co.uk

Regional Eurostar by Virgin anyone?

This sounds like a new attempt by Virgin to get back to running services on the West Coast after their OA bid was rejected because of insufficient paths?

The fact they haven't assessed the business case makes me sceptical this will ever happen

 

[signed]

The fact they haven't assessed the business case makes me sceptical this will ever happen

This won't ever happen as a eventual in-service HS1 chord to the rest of the network simply won't ever exist

 

[Cach17]

Branson’s Virgin plots Manchester-Paris route to challenge Eurostar

Operator considers new direct services as it bids to secure Channel Tunnel access

www.telegraph.co.uk

Regional Eurostar by Virgin anyone?

Funnily enough, Virgin did offer to run a similar service in the late 90s, shortly before plans for RE were axed.

Dunno how they're gonna get to Manchester without a direct HS1-HS2 connection though, unless their trains would be compatible with the existing WCML.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

Funnily enough, Virgin did offer to run a similar service in the late 90s, shortly before plans for RE were axed.

Dunno how they're gonna get to Manchester without a direct HS1-HS2 connection though, unless their trains would be compatible with the existing WCML.

Would solve the depot problem - although the 'Eurostar habite ici' one at Longsight is now used by Northern.

 

[TheWierdOne]

Re my previous post about Virgin: the article assumes they are planning to use the link from HS1 to the North London Line, especially given that if Virgin are approved for TMI they will likely be up and running before HS2

 

[zwk500]

Fair enough, but I would also argue that Brussels in a post-Brexit world is a less important destination than it was, and even with stops, the London-Brussels journey would still be competitive with flying. I wouldn't look to slow down the longer Paris and Amsterdam services.

Brussels is a less important destination post-brexit, but it's still the connecting point for UK-Germany. I think Ashford stops returning on the Brussels services is not impossible, as the change at Lille for the rest of France would be an option, but it'll require subsidy or some kind to get the station reopened (even a one-off grant), and I suspect that it'd need additional Brussels trains to justify it, as the current trains are pretty full.

A very plausible option for Ashford is that it has only 2 or 3 peak trains in a day - outbound in the morning and inbound in the evening, but it's all timed such that it can be done as effectively 2 half shifts for the station and security staff.

Personally, I would do an MLV shuffle instead, and run non-stop between MLV and London. That way, intra-schengen traffic is possible between Milan and MLV (and any intermediate stations served between those two), and you get the (not insubstantial) London-MLV flow as well. Even though MLV didn't have UK border checks in the past, it is set up for checks so it shouldn't be too hard to enable an MLV shuffle.

MLV would need expanding then, because it didn't have the passport control capacity to scan a full Disney Train

Regional Eurostar by Virgin anyone?

A very cynical PR ploy by Branson, he knows a HS1-HS2 link isn't happening and that there isn't capacity to get a 400m train from St Pancras to Manchester via the Classic network.

 

[NCT]

A very cynical PR ploy by Branson, he knows a HS1-HS2 link isn't happening and that there isn't capacity to get a 400m train from St Pancras to Manchester via the Classic network.

What even is in it for Branson/Virgin?

 

[zwk500]

What even is in it for Branson/Virgin?

For Branson, attention (if I'm being ultra cynical).

For Virgin, my guess would be that they're looking at the ORR's different criteria and trying to position themselves as something focusing on the whole UK, not just London to the continent. Proposing 'Regional Virginstar' or whatever they end up calling them (you can tell I'd never get a job in Branson's PR Team with a name like that) gets them several things:
1. They're serving more than just London so they're contributing to the UK networks, not just treating London as a branch of the Franco-Belgian network.
2. They get Mayors and MPs interested instead of opposing them. This will also help in their representations to the ORR.
3. They force the competition to respond to avoid falling back in the race. Trenitalia have mentioned about stopping at Ashford again, Eurostar have mentioned more destinations, etc., etc.,
4. They also offer the option of later phases of depot expansion happening outside the constrained sites accessible to HS1.

All of this is to ensure that if there's only 1 or 2 operators to be given capacity, they're at the top of that list.

 

[Sorcerer]

Manchester to Paris would’ve been a great service option if we had HS1 connected to a full HS2, but as it stands now it’s simply not realistic with current WCML and NLL capacity restraints. Based on this and on the previous open access bids that were rejected I’m starting to wonder whether Virgin are actually serious about getting back into the rail business with these unrealistic proposals. I would’ve genuinely welcomed their return too even if I didn’t get much of a chance to use it.

 

[Howardh]

Manchester to Paris would’ve been a great service option if we had HS1 connected to a full HS2, but as it stands now it’s simply not realistic with current WCML and NLL capacity restraints. Based on this and on the previous open access bids that were rejected I’m starting to wonder whether Virgin are actually serious about getting back into the rail business with these unrealistic proposals. I would’ve genuinely welcomed their return too even if I didn’t get much of a chance to use it.

Even Birmingham to Paris/Brussel/Amsterdam would be a good option if HS1 and 2 were linked, avoiding changing at London. But am I right in thinking the current WCML will join HS2 just north of Birmingham - so that if 1 + 2 were joined (north of Euston) Eurostar-stlye trains could run along the WCML albeit at a slower speed? Or are the electrics/signals and whatever simply not compatible? I've a feeling it's the latter?

 

[zwk500]

But am I right in thinking the current WCML will join HS2 just north of Birmingham

Yes, it will be the only operating connection for Passenger trains HS2 has with the classic network

so that if 1 + 2 were joined (north of Euston) Eurostar-stlye trains could run along the WCML albeit at a slower speed?

HS1 will not connect to HS2, and the opportunity to allow it to do so has passed, at least with current tunneling technology. HS1 does have physical links with the existing North London Line to access the classic WCML but there is not the capacity through Camden Road or on the WCML to allow such trains to transition to the fasts without additional infrastructure.

If a HS1-HS2 link had been built, trains from the continent beyond London would not have needed to run on the WCML until Handsacre. As it hasn't been built, any such train would need to be routed via Camden Road and Willesden West London Junction (either via Primrose Hill or Gospel Oak) and then crossed to the fasts either at Willesden or Wembley.

If the train is not fitted with a tilting system and TASS then it will be limited to 110mph instead of the 125mph permitted for tilting trains on the WCML, where the speeds apply only to tilting trains.

Or are the electrics/signals and whatever simply not compatible? I've a feeling it's the latter?

HS1 is TVM-430 with KVB protection on the Colour-light sections too slow for TVM. HS2 will be ETCS Level 2, which is also used on the Antwerp-Rotterdam-Amsterdam HSL and is stedily rolling out across the continent (and UK). Fitting multiple signalling systems to a train is not uncommon.

All lines concerned in the UK use the 25KV AC Overhead Line electrification system, although at different wire heights and tensions, so the only concern there would be about total power (Current) draw on the system.

An e300/Class 373 would have been fully compatible with running a service to Manchester via Camden Road and the Classic WCML (at 110mph) before 2007, when they had AWS/TPWS fitted for Waterloo. I don't know if it was subsequently removed. the 373s operated ECML services for a while. The e320s/Class 374 is too fat for the platforms on the classic network so would not be able to get past Camden Road. They have KVB/TVM and ETCS but not AWS/TPWS AIUI

I would expect that this venture would require new stock anyway, so it would be ordered to fit all the requirements anyway, including Tilting and TASS if needed.

ATP - automatic train protection, a system capable of supervising the safe speed of trains on a rail network.
HS1/HS2 - High Speed 1/High Speed 2
TVM-430 - Transmission Voie-machine 430kph (Track-to-train transmission, french in-cab High Speed Signalling, capable of 430kph), used on HS1 and in the Channel Tunnel.
TPWS - Train Protection and Warning System, used to mitigate overspeed incidents on the UK network.
AWS - Signal indication reminder system on the UK network.
KVB - Contrôle de vitesse par balises, French ATP signalling system used with their colour-light system. used at only St Pancras and Ashford international in the UK
WCML - West Coast Main Line
TASS - Tilt Authorisation and Speed System, the control supervising when trains can tilt on the WCML.
ETCS - European Train Control System, the Movement Authority component of ERTMS (European Rail Traffic Management System). This is the future standard mandated by the European Union which Network Rail also intends to use to replace legacy signalling. It comes mainly in 3 levels, Level 1 is an ATP overlay, Level 2 is a fixed-block in-cab system and Level 3 is a moving block system. High Speed Lines and network rail are primarily installing Level 2.

 

[popeter45]

*if* regional Virginstar were to happen suspect they would use somthing similar to the planned class 895 HS2 fleet, somthing modern that would allow high speed on HS1/LGV Nord while allowing WCML South Running
once HS2 opens and moves most Intercity traffic over too it, i can see WCML being viable for this as London-Paris is short enough that adding 110mph Manchester-London is doable
2hr Manchester-London (going off class 807 timings for Liverpool-London) + 2hr London-Paris = 4hr, roughly same as London-Amsterdam is at the moment

 

[zwk500]

once HS2 opens and moves most Intercity traffic over too it, i can see WCML being viable for this as London-Paris is short enough that adding 110mph Manchester-London is doable

The slight issue on this is that once HS2 opens, all the space vacated by IC traffic will be filled by other trains, and it's currently spitting the HS2 trains out at Handsacre so there's going to be a conundrum at Colwich.

 

[absolutelymilk]

The slight issue on this is that once HS2 opens, all the space vacated by IC traffic will be filled by other trains, and it's currently spitting the HS2 trains out at Handsacre so there's going to be a conundrum at Colwich.

It could potentially be viable with a hypothetical Colwich bypass, but that is many years off...

 

[zwk500]

It could potentially be viable with a hypothetical Colwich bypass, but that is many years off...

Well that's the bit of HS2 they've apparently re-started the process of selling off the acquired land for, so it's probably a few decades off now...

 

[LLivery]

With the economic development being seen in Manchester (and Birmingham), a few daily to Paris & Brussels would've been great. But it's not happening, not until 2150, we've joined Schengen and we've got our own Interconnexion Est around London... (tbf a HS2-HS1link via Heathrow, Gatwick and Ashford might not be the worst idea).

Sleeper train?

I'm surprised they don't appear to be looking for this for Berlin, but instead wanting a day service.

High-speed rail is incredibly sensitive to journey times, especially when around significant marketing boundaries (e.g. 1h58 to 2h01 is a lot more significant than 2h06 to 2h09). If you're not picking up reasonable amounts of passengers when you're stopped, it's not worth the time.

I do find that interesting, because I would just say the former is just '2 hours'. The difference between 1hr 58 or 2hrs 1min would make zero difference to my choice. In reality, what makes a difference to me is the hour and the half hour.

 

[Trainlog]

A Stratford - Ebbsfleet - Ashford - Calais - Lille local service, even if just a few trains a day each way, is something I'd welcome wholeheartedly.

Agreed, it's certainly a start to reintroducing International rail services to Kent, even if it is to Lille, it's better than the current 'abandoned status' of Ashford and Ebbsfleet stations, and I would certainly be interested in trying such a service out.

Speaking of Trenitalia, I welcome their proposal to reopen Ashford. Having a Kent parkway station will save many southerners from double-backing in London and in return would also relieve capacity at St. Pancras. Though I am lead to wonder whether they will be prepared to subsidise it's operation or whether it'll fall on the DfT to keep the station going. Eurostar don't seem to be willing to at the moment though, that's for sure.

Absolutely, double-backing from London has been one of the reasons I would avoid using Eurostar in its current form.

I do agree with the last point, if Ashford is to be reopened, subsidies might be an issue, however, if Ebbsfleet/Ashford could provide a way for International rail services to be accessible without dealing with London, I could see people parking up at these stations and travelling to the continent that way.

I also believe that if International services were to return, advertisements promoting attractions from Ashford International to those coming from France, Belgium, the Netherlands, and other countries would be necessary. Kent isn't short of attractions to see/market from Ashford International and would certainly help the local economy if such an International service resumed.

However, let's remember that while everyone has raised valid points about Brexit and demand, there has also been a revival in interest surrounding travelling to the continent by train. It seems like every 5 minutes there is a reference to Interrail tickets in most travel sections of newspapers, especially within the Guardian's travel section.

 

[kevin_roche]

Agreed, it's certainly a start to reintroducing International rail services to Kent, even if it is to Lille, it's better than the current 'abandoned status' of Ashford and Ebbsfleet stations, and I would certainly be interested in trying such a service out.

I used to drive to Ashford and park there. It was way easier than getting to St Pancras.

 

[signed]

I'm surprised they don't appear to be looking for this for Berlin, but instead wanting a day service.

I would love to have cross-nightrains, but It makes much more financial sense to run a 900 pax High speed train than a 200 pax sleeper on very expensive high speed sections (not to talk about the cafuffle with the border controls)