First West Yorkshire & York discussion

[Ken H]

I used a first bus 49 from Easterly road MacDonalds to Jimmys last week. Harehills Road was rammed with traffic, double paeked cars and parking in the bus stops where there is a yellow box. Was about 19:00. How can anyone operate a punctual bus service in that environment? Hpw do the drivers stay sane?

 

[Steve440]

I used a first bus 49 from Easterly road MacDonalds to Jimmys last week. Harehills Road was rammed with traffic, double paeked cars and parking in the bus stops where there is a yellow box. Was about 19:00. How can anyone operate a punctual bus service in that environment? Hpw do the drivers stay sane?

As a former bus driver in Leeds (1987-2009) I found that you quickly realise that you are paid by the hour, not by the mile, so if you are running late it doesn't matter and just get adjusted by the controllers at some point. For the passenger, however, it must become very frustrating and that's when they start abusing the drivers.

 

[AndyHudds]

I used a first bus 49 from Easterly road MacDonalds to Jimmys last week. Harehills Road was rammed with traffic, double paeked cars and parking in the bus stops where there is a yellow box. Was about 19:00. How can anyone operate a punctual bus service in that environment? Hpw do the drivers stay sane?

The Harehills area is ludicrous. I work at St James' and Beckett Street is absolutely gridlocked from 3pm onwards, I'm surprised anything stays on time in that area.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

In the past when the company has worked in partnership with the authority they would refuse to make any improvements to the usability of a service without indefinite funding from the taxpayer. It pre-dates the shortage and the pandemic.

If they did not make these improvements in the past in essentially a perfect environment compared to the present with higher usage, higher profits, and a partnership without their business at risk, why would they make these improvements now? It is performative to look good on paper for franchising.

A couple of things about these comments...

First of all, if it was performative... they would have done it before in order to avoid franchising?

Moreover, the fact is that "good press" counts for nothing in public sector procurement. It can't - these things have to be evaluated on a strict commercial and technical basis otherwise the authority is open to a legal challenge. As we saw in Greater Manchester, Go North West gained much of the first tranche despite a high profile industrial dispute but then lost its main operation in the second tranche. In fact, of all the large depots, very few remained with their original operators.

Secondly, all the talk has been of operators looking to wring the profits out before franchising comes in, so this would run counter to that narrative.

I might be inclined to suggest that a) some funds have come available and/or b) driver shortages have eased sufficiently

 

[mattb7tl]

A couple of things about these comments...

First of all, if it was performative... they would have done it before in order to avoid franchising?

Moreover, the fact is that "good press" counts for nothing in public sector procurement. It can't - these things have to be evaluated on a strict commercial and technical basis otherwise the authority is open to a legal challenge. As we saw in Greater Manchester, Go North West gained much of the first tranche despite a high profile industrial dispute but then lost its main operation in the second tranche. In fact, of all the large depots, very few remained with their original operators.

Secondly, all the talk has been of operators looking to wring the profits out before franchising comes in, so this would run counter to that narrative.

I might be inclined to suggest that a) some funds have come available and/or b) driver shortages have eased sufficiently

This behaviour predates the driver shortage, pandemic, and franchising.

I'm very much thinking about the quality assessment for franchising. If they didn't have the motive to make improvements in perfect operating conditions why are they doing it now? It has every enthusiast in the area puzzled as we can see from the reactions in this thread.

 

[YorkRailFan]

A batch of the 'LeedsCity' B7RLEs have been removed. Fleet numbers: 69021, 69323, 69417, 69414 and 69324.

For Bradford, B7RLEs 69315, 69472, 69474 and 69476 have all headed to York Pullman for onward sale.

For Halifax, B7RLEs 69306, 69307 and 69308 are all gone.

For Huddersfield, B7RLE 69361 and B9TL 37298 have been removed.

 

[M60lad]

Roadworks in Rochdale area on Halifax Road on Saturday caused major problems to First West Yorkshire's Calder Valley services with some 590s taking over 2 hours to get from Rochdale-Halifax this in return causing problems in Halifax with other services that 590s interwork with.

At one point I believe it was taking over an hour just to get from Rochdale-Littleborough.

 

[Whiteway215]

A batch of the 'LeedsCity' B7RLEs have been removed. Fleet numbers: 69021, 69323, 69417, 69414 and 69324.

For Bradford, B7RLEs 69315, 69472, 69474 and 69476 have all headed to York Pullman for onward sale.

For Halifax, B7RLEs 69306, 69307 and 69308 are all gone.

For Huddersfield, B7RLE 69361 and B9TL 37298 have been removed.

Apart from those going to York Pullman are you saying the others have gone for scrap, probably to PVS?

 

[YorkRailFan]

Apart from those going to York Pullman are you saying the others have gone for scrap, probably to PVS?

I believe that they are off for disposal, unless someone can confirm otherwise as some might become driver trainers.

 

[JD2168]

69306 has entered Preservation

 

[YorkRailFan]

'LeedsCity' Volvo B7RLE Wright Eclipse Urban 69346 has been withdrawn.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Oct 2025 ==

First has gained a two year extension to their contract to operate York Park & Ride services, as Park & Ride facilities Askham Bar and Rawcliffe Bar received approval for overnight parking along with upgrades to the Grimston Bar, Poppleton Bar and Monks Cross facilities.

Plans to introduce overnight parking at two of York's park and ride sites have been approved by the council.

Further improvements, expected to cost £4.25m, were also agreed, including electric vehicle charging, cycle spaces and bike storage.

Kate Ravilious, York Council's executive member for transport, said the changes would make the sites work harder for users.

It is also hoped the improvements would cut congestion in the city centre by giving visitors alternative parking.

Overnight parking is set to be introduced at the Askham Bar and Rawcliffe Bar sites, where visitors could drop their vehicles off on a Friday and catch the bus into the centre of York.

Parking would be in a designated area with 24-hour access and drivers could then pick their vehicles up when they leave.

'Fantastic asset'
The improvement scheme was designed to turn the Askham Bar, Grimston Bar, Monks Cross, Rawcliffe Bar and Poppleton Bar park and ride sites into multi-use transport hubs, a council report said.

The hub model aims to offer more than just bus journeys, by opening up park and rides to other uses.

Further improvements at Askham Bar include an additional stop for buses and long-distance coaches, along with a relocated oversized vehicle parking area.

Rawcliffe Bar is also set for an oversized vehicle parking area, a cover for existing cycle spaces, refurbishments to its existing building, a canopy to shelter passengers and upgraded security.

The toilet block and ticket office at Grimston Bar will be replaced with a new building, with changing places also planned and layout, paving and landscaping improvements.

Monks Cross is set for a canopy over its existing cycle spaces, renovations to its toilets and waiting area and improvements to its building's security.

Upgrades to accessible bays, repairs, defibrillators, cycle lockers, bike repair stands, parcel lockers, e-scooter parking areas and new real-time bus information is planned at the five sites.

A two-year extension to First Bus's contract to run the sites was also approved along with the upgrades.

York park and ride overnight parking approved

Further improvements include electric vehicle charging, cycle spaces and bike storage.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[YorkRailFan]

Recent fleet news:
Huddersfield has received 3 Streetlites from Essex with numbers 63370, 63373 and 63375. B9TLs 37125, 37502, 37689, 37706 and 37773 have been repainted from Huddersfield Connect to Ultraviolet.

Halifax Streetlites 63107, 63098, 63193 and 63096 have been repainted to Ultraviolet. B7RLE 69579 has been repainted to Ultraviolet and B7RLE 69479 has transferred from Halifax to Bradford.

Leeds repowers 70101, 71028, 71029 and 71030 have transferred to York to help out with the influx of passengers for York Christmas Market in the coming weeks. Ultroliners 35622 and 35629 have been repainted to Ultraviolet. B9TL 37453 now has Leeds branding. 'LeedsCity' B7RLE 69346 has been withdrawn and Driver Trainer B7RLE 66948 has transferred from Leeds to Bradford.

 

[Ballyheigue]

'LeedsCity' Volvo B7RLE Wright Eclipse Urban 69346 has been withdrawn.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Oct 2025 ==

First has gained a two year extension to their contract to operate York Park & Ride services, as Park & Ride facilities Askham Bar and Rawcliffe Bar received approval for overnight parking along with upgrades to the Grimston Bar, Poppleton Bar and Monks Cross facilities.

York park and ride overnight parking approved

Further improvements include electric vehicle charging, cycle spaces and bike storage.

www.bbc.co.uk

Thought they might want to do something about traffic flow on match days at Monks Cross, maybe by way of building another way out/in such as onto New Road at the back? At the moment it's a nightmare on a match day with the 9 often running really late and the Y22 doing just as bad.

 

[YorkRailFan]

Thought they might want to do something about traffic flow on match days at Monks Cross, maybe by way of building another way out/in such as onto New Road at the back? At the moment it's a nightmare on a match day with the 9 often running really late and the Y22 doing just as bad.

To be honest, a new road would only temporarily relieve congestion as it would also quickly become overloaded. At this point, the Council needs to restrict car usage as there's only so much that can be done making public transport attractive (although there is still work to be done) as some will never get out of their cars.

The most common reason I've heard people in York not use buses is "why would I pay to sit in traffic on a bus when I can just take the car?" (Face palm.)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Nov 2025 ==

B9TL 37684 has transferred from Huddersfield to Leeds (Bramley Depot).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Nov 2025 ==

The last of the 'LeedsCity Red' Ultroliners, 35551 has been repainted to Ultraviolet.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Nov 2025 ==

Halifax Streetlite 63108 has been repainted to Ultraviolet.

 

[grdc]

Had an "enjoyable" ride on the 51 from Leeds to Churwell yesterday. 15:32 journey, not peak time.

"Fantastic" vehicle 69481, transferee from Halifax, pulled up at Eastgate stop with the rear suspension overinflated and no air in the front at all. Looked quite ridiculous, and probably shouldn't have been on the road.

Needless to say, the bus was packed as this route should not be a 15 minute service nor operated by single deckers. Left passengers behind at the market and drove straight past those at bridge end.

Obviously the ride was horrendous, people bouncing out of seats on every pot hole.

But on the plus side, I got to read some interesting information about Calderdale tickets etc on the coving.

For completeness, when I got off there was no air in either end of the bus with it sitting on the stops front and back.

So fed up of First, Hunslet Park and the complete contempt they have for the Morleys.

A couple of weeks ago I was on a similarly packed Yutong with the same story, people left behind. Even worse, whilst I was waiting to cross the road after getting off said Yutong, another passed in the opposite direction towards Leeds.

Lovely buses, but not suitable for this or the vast majority of Hunslet's routes. Why are they sending Hunslet more single deckers?

 

[YorkRailFan]

B9TL 37087 has been repainted to Ultraviolet and B9TL 37125 has gone for scrap.

 

[Steve440]

View attachment 192486

Had an "enjoyable" ride on the 51 from Leeds to Churwell yesterday. 15:32 journey, not peak time.

"Fantastic" vehicle 69481, transferee from Halifax, pulled up at Eastgate stop with the rear suspension overinflated and no air in the front at all. Looked quite ridiculous, and probably shouldn't have been on the road.

Needless to say, the bus was packed as this route should not be a 15 minute service nor operated by single deckers. Left passengers behind at the market and drove straight past those at bridge end.

Obviously the ride was horrendous, people bouncing out of seats on every pot hole.

But on the plus side, I got to read some interesting information about Calderdale tickets etc on the coving.

For completeness, when I got off there was no air in either end of the bus with it sitting on the stops front and back.

So fed up of First, Hunslet Park and the complete contempt they have for the Morleys.

A couple of weeks ago I was on a similarly packed Yutong with the same story, people left behind. Even worse, whilst I was waiting to cross the road after getting off said Yutong, another passed in the opposite direction towards Leeds.

Lovely buses, but not suitable for this or the vast majority of Hunslet's routes. Why are they sending Hunslet more single deckers?

Because the management have no idea, just like Transdev with their ridiculous 37 seater Mercedes eCitaros on the 662 Shuttle. What is wrong with double-deckers?

 

[mattb7tl]

Because the management have no idea, just like Transdev with their ridiculous 37 seater Mercedes eCitaros on the 662 Shuttle. What is wrong with double-deckers?

And bus companies want us to believe that they can accurately forecast demand when it comes to reductions and improvements. It is no wonder the network continues to decline even when you give them bus priority.

 

[citybus2500]

View attachment 192486

Had an "enjoyable" ride on the 51 from Leeds to Churwell yesterday. 15:32 journey, not peak time.

"Fantastic" vehicle 69481, transferee from Halifax, pulled up at Eastgate stop with the rear suspension overinflated and no air in the front at all. Looked quite ridiculous, and probably shouldn't have been on the road.

Needless to say, the bus was packed as this route should not be a 15 minute service nor operated by single deckers. Left passengers behind at the market and drove straight past those at bridge end.

Obviously the ride was horrendous, people bouncing out of seats on every pot hole.

But on the plus side, I got to read some interesting information about Calderdale tickets etc on the coving.

For completeness, when I got off there was no air in either end of the bus with it sitting on the stops front and back.

So fed up of First, Hunslet Park and the complete contempt they have for the Morleys.

A couple of weeks ago I was on a similarly packed Yutong with the same story, people left behind. Even worse, whilst I was waiting to cross the road after getting off said Yutong, another passed in the opposite direction towards Leeds.

Lovely buses, but not suitable for this or the vast majority of Hunslet's routes. Why are they sending Hunslet more single deckers?

Because First couldn't give two figs and are just treading water towards April 2027. I suspect it will only get worse.

This problem seems to have got worse since the 5 moved to Bramley depot yet Hunslet seem to have gained single decks!

 

[Metal Mickey]

View attachment 192486

Had an "enjoyable" ride on the 51 from Leeds to Churwell yesterday. 15:32 journey, not peak time.

"Fantastic" vehicle 69481, transferee from Halifax, pulled up at Eastgate stop with the rear suspension overinflated and no air in the front at all. Looked quite ridiculous, and probably shouldn't have been on the road.

Needless to say, the bus was packed as this route should not be a 15 minute service nor operated by single deckers. Left passengers behind at the market and drove straight past those at bridge end.

Obviously the ride was horrendous, people bouncing out of seats on every pot hole.

But on the plus side, I got to read some interesting information about Calderdale tickets etc on the coving.

For completeness, when I got off there was no air in either end of the bus with it sitting on the stops front and back.

So fed up of First, Hunslet Park and the complete contempt they have for the Morleys.

A couple of weeks ago I was on a similarly packed Yutong with the same story, people left behind. Even worse, whilst I was waiting to cross the road after getting off said Yutong, another passed in the opposite direction towards Leeds.

Lovely buses, but not suitable for this or the vast majority of Hunslet's routes. Why are they sending Hunslet more single deckers?

The timetabling system that First are now using also doesn’t help.

If a timetable was previously constructed by a skilled planner to be every 15 minutes between 0700 and 1800, with some additional time scheduled during the peak, it will now under the new system up until 1500 vary between every 14 to 16 minutes and then reduce slightly to between every 17 and 19 minutes until end of peak to avoid additional PVR but the big downside is that it results in slightly less journeys and the likelihood of capacity issues.

 

[YorkRailFan]

B9TL 37697 has been repainted to Ultraviolet.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Nov 2025 ==

Streetlite 63194 has been repainted to Ultraviolet.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Nov 2025 ==

Streetlite 47500 has been repainted to Ultraviolet.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Nov 2025 ==

B9TL 37086 has been repainted into Ultraviolet.

 

[YorkRailFan]

B7RLE 69321 has been withdrawn.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Dec 2025 ==

Ultroliner 35275 has been repainted to Ultraviolet.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Dec 2025 ==

B9TL 37719 and Streetlite 47498 have been repainted to Ultraviolet.

 

[YorkRailFan]

Ultroliner 35525 has been repainted to Ultraviolet.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Dec 2025 ==

B7RLE 69558 has been repainted Ultraviolet.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Dec 2025 ==

Streetlite 63282 has been repainted to Ultraviolet.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

Boxing Day timetables are out on the West Yorkshire Metro website and looking specifically as the First services - one interesting change is the Halifax to Todmorden service being ran as a 592 this year (in 2024 it was ran as a 591 but as the A646 was closed between Todmorden and Hebden Bridge, many simply ran unoffically as a 593) and the years before that it was ran as a 590.

Other than that everything else seems to be running the same way as it did in 2024.

https://wymetro.com/plan-a-journey/travel-news/bus-travel-alerts/boxingday2025/

However the New Years Day services that were ran at the beginging of the year (2025) won't be ran for a second year, so passenger numbers must have been really low if not scarce.

 

[noddingdonkey]

Once again the 383 gets a half hourly service compared to the usual Sunday/Bank Holiday hourly frequency. A shame they couldn't make one of them a 382

 

[YorkRailFan]

B9TL 37686 has been repainted to Ultraviolet.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Dec 2025 ==

Repowers 70101, 71028 & 71029 have returned to Leeds now that the York Uni services have switched to the holiday timetables.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Dec 2025 ==

B9TL 37690 has been repainted to Ultraviolet.

 

[YorkRailFan]

Streetlite 47499 has been repainted to Ultraviolet.

 

[Saad]

Off topic here, but:

a) with First withdrawing their Kernow operations next month, is there any likelihood of any WY depots receiving ex-Kernow vehicles?
b) is 71030 set to come back from York?

 

[Ballyheigue]

Off topic here, but:

a) with First withdrawing their Kernow operations next month, is there any likelihood of any WY depots receiving ex-Kernow vehicles?
b) is 71030 set to come back from York?

There's been a handful of B9s sent up in the past few months, I really wouldn't recommend them however as they feel typically knackered. Leeds passengers would welcome all the decker's with open arms as the singles can't cope at peak times so maybe we'll see decker's replace the older singles.

 

[kewal_7770]

Saw 71030 in service in York on Saturday