Avanti West Coast via Settle (for WCML Bridge replacement next January?)

[pokemonsuper9]

I've just noticed that the 05:29 Crewe to Carlisle on 3rd January 2026 is very randomly showing as calling at Hellifield at 07:13.. Surely this is an error. The same train is also strangely showing as not calling at Warrington Bank Quay.

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:s22939/2026-01-03/detailed

It shows on Northern's booking engine, but as Timetable Unconfirmed! Trainsplit doesn't let me select 2026 yet.

 

[voyagerdude220]

How strange!
It reminds me of (going back many years) to I guess maybe the year 2005 when Virgin Cross Country diverted and National Rail Departure Boards showed a 10:00 ish Glasgow Central to Penzance double Voyager as calling at Darwen(!) on it's way towards Bolton/Manchester etc.

 

[gazthomas]

Apologies as I may have missed this above, but how will you be able to book tickets/seats for the Wrexham General to Carlisle trips

On RealTimeTrains they're showing as a 1Z service which I thought were used primarily for railtours.

Realtime Trains | 1Z35 0820 Wrexham General to Carlisle | 02/01/2026

Real-time train running information for 1Z35 0820 departure from Wrexham General to Carlisle on 02/01/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

I know the booking window isn't open yet as well. Could I turn up on the day and just take the train?

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Apologies as I may have missed this above, but how will you be able to book tickets/seats for the Wrexham General to Carlisle trips

You will be able to book them through usual booking engines

On RealTimeTrains they're showing as a 1Z service which I thought were used primarily for railtours.

#Z## codes are usually used for short term plans or special services.

I know the booking window isn't open yet as well. Could I turn up on the day and just take the train?

Yes (with a ticket obviously).

 

[gazthomas]

Thanks @pokemonsuper9

 

[lrbvoyager]

Apologies as I may have missed this above, but how will you be able to book tickets/seats for the Wrexham General to Carlisle trips

On RealTimeTrains they're showing as a 1Z service which I thought were used primarily for railtours.

Realtime Trains | 1Z35 0820 Wrexham General to Carlisle | 02/01/2026

Real-time train running information for 1Z35 0820 departure from Wrexham General to Carlisle on 02/01/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

I know the booking window isn't open yet as well. Could I turn up on the day and just take the train?

1Z headcodes for avanti mean they are during distruption. For example if a service from Euston to Edinburgh gets cancelled but they reinstate it from presto. It will take up 1/9Z**.

 

[The Planner]

1Z headcodes for avanti mean they are during distruption. For example if a service from Euston to Edinburgh gets cancelled but they reinstate it from presto. It will take up 1/9Z**.

Its more for signallers to know what they are. This isn't disruption, its planned.

 

[voyagerdude220]

I know timings haven't been confirmed yet, but as things stand, it seems like the first northbound diversion over the Settle and Carlisle on New Year's Day will be an empty stock move all the way from Crewe CS to Carlisle..

Realtime Trains | 5Z31 0551 Crewe C.S. to Carlisle | 01/01/2026

Real-time train running information for 5Z31 0551 departure from Crewe C.S. to Carlisle on 01/01/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

There are also examples of very late southbound empty stock moves, e.g.:

Realtime Trains | 5Z72 2305 Carlisle to Crewe C.S. | 04/01/2026

Real-time train running information for 5Z72 2305 departure from Carlisle to Crewe C.S. on 04/01/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Big Sam]

I know the booking window isn't open yet as well. Could I turn up on the day and just take the train?

I'm wondering that, too. I plan to use a Brit Rail pass (I'm not a UK resident), but Real Time Trains lists the services as being "reservation compulsory". How do I go about getting a reservation without a ticket yet?

Yes (with a ticket obviously).

Is it likely the trains will be reservation compulsory? (Please see above)

 

[Barnsley]

I'm wondering that, too. I plan to use a Brit Rail pass (I'm not a UK resident), but Real Time Trains lists the services as being "reservation compulsory". How do I go about getting a reservation without a ticket yet?



Is it likely the trains will be reservation compulsory? (Please see above)

Very unlikely they will be reservation compulsory, none of their others are, they just flag them as such in booking engines

 

[Krokodil]

I'm wondering that, too. I plan to use a Brit Rail pass (I'm not a UK resident), but Real Time Trains lists the services as being "reservation compulsory". How do I go about getting a reservation without a ticket yet?

The only trains in the UK where you genuinely have to worry about compulsory reservations are Eurostar, Caledonian Sleeper and Lumo. Anything else will have at least one unreserved coach.

 

[800001]

The only trains in the UK where you genuinely have to worry about compulsory reservations are Eurostar, Caledonian Sleeper and Lumo. Anything else will have at least one unreserved coach.

You can board a lumo without a reservation with an open ticket.

 

[Kite159]

You can board a lumo without a reservation with an open ticket.

However there are only a handful of unreserved seats on Lumo, so it's advisable to get a seat reservation

 

[800001]

However there are only a handful of unreserved seats on Lumo, so it's advisable to get a seat reservation

Yes, but fact remains you can board without a reservation!

 

[Big Sam]

Very unlikely they will be reservation compulsory, none of their others are, they just flag them as such in booking engines

The only trains in the UK where you genuinely have to worry about compulsory reservations are Eurostar, Caledonian Sleeper and Lumo. Anything else will have at least one unreserved coach.

Thanks for the replies. I will have a first class BritRail Pass. Does this change anything? I guess it's just a case of hoping there will be unreserved seats in the First Class carriages?

 

[hexagon789]

Thanks for the replies. I will have a first class BritRail Pass. Does this change anything? I guess it's just a case of hoping there will be unreserved seats in the First Class carriages?

You could always make a standalone seat reservation if you had a particular service in mind.

 

[Big Sam]

You could always make a standalone seat reservation if you had a particular service in mind.

Thanks. I looked on the Avanti website and it says you need a ticket in order to make a reservation. Is that right? I plan to get my BritRail Pass at the last minute as it's an e-ticket, so I won't actually have a ticket until the last moment. And then once I do have my pass, would it be straightforward? I've never made a reservation for an open ticket before.

 

[jfollows]

The GWR web site lets you make reservations without also buying a ticket there.

Just say you have an Anytime ticket, which is pretty much the truth.

 

[Big Sam]

The GWR web site lets you make reservations without also buying a ticket there.

Just say you have an Anytime ticket, which is pretty much the truth.

Thanks, I'll take a look.

 

[yorkie]

Is the timetable for 10th January known yet? Will it be the same as the 3rd?

 

[The Planner]

Is the timetable for 10th January known yet? Will it be the same as the 3rd?

Not sure why it wouldn't be.

 

[lrbvoyager]

You can book tickets now. All of them from Wrexham to Carlisle have sold out!?

 

[Bletchleyite]

You can book tickets now. All of them from Wrexham to Carlisle have sold out!?

They've probably not released any quota for that as it isn't a normal route they serve. A splitting site should sort you out if it's an Advance you're wanting.

Edit: Trainline says "not released yet" rather than "sold out" and doesn't offer a split, interestingly.

 

[lrbvoyager]

They've probably not released any quota for that as it isn't a normal route they serve. A splitting site should sort you out if it's an Advance you're wanting.

Edit: Trainline says "not released yet" rather than "sold out" and doesn't offer a split, interestingly.

That’s odd, avanti’s Website say that they are sold out?

 

[voyagerdude220]

That’s odd, avanti’s Website say that they are sold out?

I think (but I'm happy to be corrected) it says this by default even when tickets haven't been released for sale yet.

 

[Tester]

I think (but I'm happy to be corrected) it says this by default even when tickets haven't been released for sale yet.

I wouldn't be at all surprised, but that is a completely ludicrous thing which has no upside for anyone, and makes no sense whatsoever.

How is it that these things happen?

 

[yorkie]

You can book tickets now. All of them from Wrexham to Carlisle have sold out!?

Have you tried the forum ticketing site? Can you provide a link to the search URL please?

 

[Bletchleyite]

How is it that these things happen?

The Avanti West Coast website is absolute garbage and is really best avoided.

 

[A S Leib]

The Avanti West Coast website is absolute garbage and is really best avoided.

Which unfortunately isn't an option if you want Club Avanti qualifying journeys (I think just that or the Avanti app as options? At least with LNER perks you can redeem tickets bought elsewhere).

 

[lrbvoyager]

I asked Avanti directly as the other routes over S&C are billable and they said they believe it is because the timetable team are going over it. When I looked on LNER the train didn’t even show up!?