TfW class 398 Stadler Citylink tram trains

[tfw756rider]

Thanks for both replies. Appreciated.

Welcome.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Aug 2025 ==

Other than a broken down 398 I saw at Merthyr Tydfil a few months ago, I haven't seen any of these out and about for testing.
There are plenty at Taffs Well depot, but they seem to just sit there.
Why would you spend all that money on rolling stock, pay interest on the capital expenditure and not try and get them into service as quick as possible?

Not quite as bad as the 701s but still does seem like a waste of resources. TfW don't choose to share much with the public so we can only speculate. There are several 398s at Old Dalby for post modification testing I read on here, not sure what those mods were.

I've just asked TfW Rail "Why do a load of Class 398s seem to just sit at Taffs Well depot, besides the relative few that have at least been on test?"

 

[WelshBluebird]

not try and get them into service as quick as possible?

Do we have any evidence that isnt what is happening?

I appreciate its frustrating, but given from what has been reported there has been a potential issue with wheel profiles then add in required miles on the rails and driver training, it looks to me they are trying!

 

[chargesmith]

Welcome.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Aug 2025 ==



I've just asked TfW Rail "Why do a load of Class 398s seem to just sit at Taffs Well depot, besides the relative few that have at least been on test?"

They needed to build the depot (now finished) and get regulatory approval from ORR (unsure if this has gone through).

Then do mileage accumulation (this is I believe why some units are at Old Dalby) and prove fault free running (unsure how this is going).

Then it's training staff which can be difficult if you have to choose between doing this and operating existing services.

Also unsure how much of the work on the Bay line needs to be finished before they can run.

Just like with the 756s though, it'll feel like it's taking ages and then it'll just happen, one or two will be in service and steadily the numbers will increase. With the 756s it took about seven months for them all to have been in public use.

 

[tfw756rider]

They needed to build the depot (now finished) and get regulatory approval from ORR (unsure if this has gone through).

Then do mileage accumulation (this is I believe why some units are at Old Dalby) and prove fault free running (unsure how this is going).

Then it's training staff which can be difficult if you have to choose between doing this and operating existing services.

Also unsure how much of the work on the Bay line needs to be finished before they can run.

Just like with the 756s though, it'll feel like it's taking ages and then it'll just happen, one or two will be in service and steadily the numbers will increase. With the 756s it took about seven months for them all to have been in public use.

Many thanks. Good point in the last paragraph especially.

 

[800001]

398028 was out on test yesterday from Taffs Well

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Sep 2025 ==

398027 was seen on test in Taffs Well, Abercynon and Aberdare in April 2025 so must also be in the UK (more specifically, Britain).

So, of the 36 398s, at least 28 (398001-028) are in Britain, and at most 8 (398029-036) aren't yet.

398029 and 398030 are both confirmed to be at Taffs Wells, according to a post on Welsh Railways, current fleet and new orders group on Facebook.

Picture attached of a post today

 

[StripeyNick]

I can confirm 030 is there. Could only get the number of it by standing on the fence as you come from the footpath that goes over the A470. On Mon it was the unit at the north end of the depot nearest the road/roundabout

 

[tigermonstera]

Some 398 runs around the Cardiff loop are scheduled for early Saturday morning (RTT Link). I don't believe we've had 398 test runs in Cardiff for a while now?

TfW said back in August that they would be doing test runs of the 398s at Queen Street in order to support level boarding works (Link).

 

[Cardiff123]

Is there any indication yet of driver & crew training starting on the 398s anytime soon? Has TfW got a target date for the start of driver training? Or is it all still TBC?

Entry into passenger service this December, even on Pontypridd to the Bay, seems unlikely.

 

[MikePJ]

Is there any indication yet of driver & crew training starting on the 398s anytime soon? Has TfW got a target date for the start of driver training? Or is it all still TBC?

Entry into passenger service this December, even on Pontypridd to the Bay, seems unlikely.

The wires to the Bay are supposed to go live this weekend (according to the most recently-published project plan from back in the summer) and September and October are supposed to feature driver training and the opening of new toilets at stations. One of the traincrew on here pointed out a few months ago that a lot of driver training is done in a simulator now, so just because the trains aren’t moving doesn’t mean training isn’t happening.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Sep 2025 ==

Looks like regular 398 runs between Taffs Well and Treherbert have resumed this week (22nd September)

 

[chargesmith]

Just seen this on BBC

Delayed East Midlands Railway train fleet set to start running

The introduction of the fleet was first planned for 2022 but has been hit with a number of delays.

www.bbc.com

The EMR 800 series trains are three years late. Puts the 398s delay in perspective, it's clearly an industry wide challenge.

 

[800001]

Just seen this on BBC

Delayed East Midlands Railway train fleet set to start running

The introduction of the fleet was first planned for 2022 but has been hit with a number of delays.

www.bbc.com

The EMR 800 series trains are three years late. Puts the 398s delay in perspective, it's clearly an industry wide challenge.

The 810s of EMR, are delayed mainly due to Hitachi incompetence in the design and building of the unit.

 

[Bob Price]

701's, 720's, also were very late. Sometimes it just works such a the 805's and 807's, sometimes they get delayed. Look at the 769 project, took ages to get them into service.

 

[tfw756rider]

This was originally a question, but I'm so relieved to have since found the answer! 398028 was the 398 on the test runs today (Thu 25/9/25) between Taffs Well Depot and Treherbert.

On the diagram starting with:

Realtime Trains | 3Q00 0803 Taffs Well Depot to Treherbert | 25/09/2025

Real-time train running information for 3Q00 0803 departure from Taffs Well Depot to Treherbert on 25/09/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

and ending with:

Realtime Trains | 3Q07 1557 Treherbert to Taffs Well Depot | 25/09/2025

Real-time train running information for 3Q07 1557 departure from Treherbert to Taffs Well Depot on 25/09/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Other than a broken down 398 I saw at Merthyr Tydfil a few months ago, I haven't seen any of these out and about for testing.
There are plenty at Taffs Well depot, but they seem to just sit there.
Why would you spend all that money on rolling stock, pay interest on the capital expenditure and not try and get them into service as quick as possible?

Not quite as bad as the 701s but still does seem like a waste of resources. TfW don't choose to share much with the public so we can only speculate. There are several 398s at Old Dalby for post modification testing I read on here, not sure what those mods were.

I've just asked TfW Rail "Why do a load of Class 398s seem to just sit at Taffs Well depot, besides the relative few that have at least been on test?"

The reply I received (which I've only just looked at now) is:

TfW Rail said: Hi, we've been advised that the Class 398 are currently undergoing testing and will be introduced to service in 2026

 

[norbitonflyer]

701's, 720's, also were very late. Sometimes it just works such a the 805's and 807's, sometimes they get delayed. Look at the 769 project, took ages to get them into service.

Or never, in GWR's case

 

[Jacob Porrett]

A new video has been posted in...

TfW class 398 Stadler Citylink photos/videos | RailUK Forums https://share.google/WAZXPhDBzYpNVJehX

 

[tigermonstera]

Incidentally, a couple runs around Cardiff are scheduled for tonight / early tomorrow morning (RTT link). I believe this is the third one scheduled in the last month, although the other two didn't end up going ahead to my knowledge.

 

[tfw756rider]

Incidentally, a couple runs around Cardiff are scheduled for tonight / early tomorrow morning (RTT link). I believe this is the third one scheduled in the last month, although the other two didn't end up going ahead to my knowledge.

The working you linked to (3Q40 0020 Taffs Well Depot to Cardiff Central on the 30/9/25) ended up being cancelled.

 

[tigermonstera]

The working you linked to (3Q40 0020 Taffs Well Depot to Cardiff Central on the 30/9/25) ended up being cancelled.

It was — however two runs were made this morning (3Q01 + 3Q02) to Aberdare via Queens Street.

 

[tfw756rider]

It was — however two runs were made this morning (3Q01 + 3Q02) to Aberdare via Queens Street.

Thanks for letting us know

 

[AdamWW]

Another delivery (waiting at the M4 J32 interchange).

I don't know where the rest of it is.


(Photo of one end car of 398 031 chained down to a low loader with a temporary wheelset just visible at the inner end).

 

[wickham]

Another delivery (waiting at the M4 J32 interchange).

I don't know where the rest of it is.

View attachment 190308
(Photo of one end car of 398 031 chained down to a low loader with a temporary wheelset just visible at the inner end).

This is very good as it gives us a confirmed delivery date !! Deliveries have really slowed down, only about 8 units this year and we are now into October with 5 more units still to come. At this rate of progress thay might all be here by about April 2026. Can anyone say why the deliveries have slowed down so much, is it production reasons, or are they simply not wanted just yet - Taffs Well is pretty full !

 

[StripeyNick]

This is very good as it gives us a confirmed delivery date !! Deliveries have really slowed down, only about 8 units this year and we are now into October with 5 more units still to come. At this rate of progress thay might all be here by about April 2026. Can anyone say why the deliveries have slowed down so much, is it production reasons, or are they simply not wanted just yet - Taffs Well is pretty full !

I read somewhere that the Stadler plant in Spain had been affected by some of the flooding earlier in the year so maybe there was a knock on effect from that?

 

[tfw756rider]

I saw someone claim that the 398s won't run in and out of Cardiff Central in service, only Queen Street - surely that isn't right?

 

[MikePJ]

I saw someone claim that the 398s won't run in and out of Cardiff Central in service, only Queen Street - surely that isn't right?

That can't be right - the whole Aberdare-Merthyr loop service via the City Line relies on the 398s going via Central. There has been some mention of the fact that the lightweight design of the 398s means there are some additional signalling restrictions to prevent a heavy train colliding with a lightweight 398, but if I recall correctly that was mostly about preventing platform-sharing for terminating trains.

 

[AdamWW]

That can't be right - the whole Aberdare-Merthyr loop service via the City Line relies on the 398s going via Central. There has been some mention of the fact that the lightweight design of the 398s means there are some additional signalling restrictions to prevent a heavy train colliding with a lightweight 398, but if I recall correctly that was mostly about preventing platform-sharing for terminating trains.

Also Treherbert trains terminating at Central.

 

[tfw756rider]

That can't be right - the whole Aberdare-Merthyr loop service via the City Line relies on the 398s going via Central. There has been some mention of the fact that the lightweight design of the 398s means there are some additional signalling restrictions to prevent a heavy train colliding with a lightweight 398, but if I recall correctly that was mostly about preventing platform-sharing for terminating trains.

Also Treherbert trains terminating at Central.

Thanks guys

 

[snalty]

Another delivery (waiting at the M4 J32 interchange).

I don't know where the rest of it is.

View attachment 190308
(Photo of one end car of 398 031 chained down to a low loader with a temporary wheelset just visible at the inner end).

I also saw this chilling there that day.

 

[Bobcp]

I saw someone claim that the 398s won't run in and out of Cardiff Central in service, only Queen Street - surely that isn't right?

Perhaps they were refering to Cardiff Crossrail Phase 1 which includes :-
1) A new two platform station stop located in the southern car park of Cardiff Central railway station, with easy interchange at Cardiff Central station
2) A new tramway from the southern car park at Cardiff Central station, crossing through Callaghan Square to join the existing Cardiff Bay line.
3) An additional third platform at Cardiff Bay.
This would give a direct line, 398 operated, between the city centre and Cardiff Bay.

 

[MikePJ]

I was in Sheffield this week and took a ride on the Class 399 tram-train service to Rotherham and back. The interior of the 399s is very different to the 398s - the 399s are styled to match the existing Sheffield trams, with bus-style seats, whereas the 399s will be much more like a train with their high-backed seats. Anyway, the main point of interest was the ride quality - along the heavy rail section the 399s are fast and the ride is extremely smooth. Once they come back onto the (off-street) tramway at Tinsley, the lower standard of tracklaying is really obvious - the vehicle rolls from side to side at speed in a way that it doesn't on the heavy rail section.

 

[tfw756rider]

I was in Sheffield this week and took a ride on the Class 399 tram-train service to Rotherham and back. The interior of the 399s is very different to the 398s - the 399s are styled to match the existing Sheffield trams, with bus-style seats, whereas the 399s will be much more like a train with their high-backed seats. Anyway, the main point of interest was the ride quality - along the heavy rail section the 399s are fast and the ride is extremely smooth. Once they come back onto the (off-street) tramway at Tinsley, the lower standard of tracklaying is really obvious - the vehicle rolls from side to side at speed in a way that it doesn't on the heavy rail section.

I plan to try out the 399s before the 398s, in the same way that I deliberately had my first 172, 195, 196 and 197 rides in chronological order of entry-to-service (albeit in 2022, 2022, 2023 and 2023).