McGill’s Midland Bluebird

[DunsBus]

Predictibly, various members on the Edinburgh area bus forums have started gloating about the impending end of the AirX service, pointing out that the choice of vehicle (mid-life ADL E300s) did it no favours. Those of us who've been around long enough to remember the Guide Friday Airbus Express service will recall that GF ran it through its entire ten-year existence with mid-life to elderly vehicles, so I don't see their argument. It is sad that in this day and age we have people who want to see a competitive venture fail, and then cheer when it does so.

 

[Metal Mickey]

Predictibly, various members on the Edinburgh area bus forums have started gloating about the impending end of the AirX service, pointing out that the choice of vehicle (mid-life ADL E300s) did it no favours. Those of us who've been around long enough to remember the Guide Friday Airbus Express service will recall that GF ran it through its entire ten-year existence with mid-life to elderly vehicles, so I don't see their argument. It is sad that in this day and age we have people who want to see a competitive venture fail, and then cheer when it does so.

Unfortunately, some people have failed to understand that it’s a free market and there’s nothing stopping other operators registering services against Lothian’s Network.

I know this isn’t a topic for Lothian but if they hadn’t expanded into West Lothian in 2018 then they would probably to this day still be operating Airlink and Edinburgh City Tours without competition and the business overall would’ve been much better off financially. I wonder how many of the Lothian senior management team from back then who are still involved now must be thinking in hindsight that the West Lothian expansion was an ill advised move.

 

[overthewater]

It just goes to show how some people really do have blinkers on, and can't see the bigger picture.

It's clear to most people bright bus was very cheap operations which DID CARRY passengers. The trouble was they were only ever going to get passengers who come out of International Arrivals 1 hall. Also we don't know who much Edinburgh airport were changing Bright bus to go in there, for all we know it could have been much higher stance fee. I wonder if the airport was now demanding brand new electric stock to match the other bus routes?

going back a few years, could you honestly have predicted that McGill's would end up buying out the First Scotland East/Midland Bluebird operation?

It really shouldn't have come as any great surprise as Mcgills actually said they would have brought the company back in 2016 or parts of it, it's well documented into the reviews of First Scotland Holding via 1998 Celling floor and Scotrail competition commission around 7 years ago?

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Predictibly, various members on the Edinburgh area bus forums have started gloating about the impending end of the AirX service, pointing out that the choice of vehicle (mid-life ADL E300s) did it no favours. Those of us who've been around long enough to remember the Guide Friday Airbus Express service will recall that GF ran it through its entire ten-year existence with mid-life to elderly vehicles, so I don't see their argument. It is sad that in this day and age we have people who want to see a competitive venture fail, and then cheer when it does so.

The choice of vehicle was wise to start off, but was never going to work long term. The low cost set up meant that it needed to build up custom to sustain any chance of newer vehicles. This happened in the peak of summer, but at other times it was far too inconsistently busy. At times during the day, it was empty or very quiet and the Airlink wasn’t. This could be in both directions, so how that happened is anyone’s guess. I wouldn’t say Lothian did anything to oust McGill’s. If anything the two services moving to share Waverley Bridge only seemed to cause congestion, rather than actually cause direct competition.

McGill’s can say this that and other about how much revenue was taken away. Maybe the actual reality is that it’s market growth? Ie people who may not have taken the bus at all and thought, hang on that’s so cheap, I’ll do that. I say this as consistently the Airlink and Tram have looked no quieter. I can’t speak for taxis, so maybe it’s come from there? The Airport is getting busier year on year too.

Lothian are also due a batch of brand new Airlink’s at somepoint. So you’d have 13 year old buses up against brand new ones. I think this ultimately lead to its demise. The AIRX just wasn’t busy enough to sustain newer vehicles.

The international arrivals argument is a poor one though, as there’s plenty of people that you can pick up from there. More than enough to fill a single decker, if you try hard enough. Lothian used to have Stand D at the Airport, which was so much busier than Stand A is now. Now, a lot of people in that time walking up catch a glimpse of the tram and go with that. Unfortunately the Airport is private property and they are (rightly or wrongly) allowed to do as they want. I’m not a fan of it, but in reality it’s just tough. You do as you’re told effectively.

 

[EMU303]

K

I know this isn’t a topic for Lothian but if they hadn’t expanded into West Lothian in 2018 then they would probably to this day still be operating Airlink and Edinburgh City Tours without competition and the business overall would’ve been much better off financially. I wonder how many of the Lothian senior management team from back then who are still involved now must be thinking in hindsight that the West Lothian expansion was an ill advised move.

Perhaps Lothian were concerned about the (then) possibility of McGills buying First Scotland east, and the potential of it being used a launchpad into Edinburgh?

They’ve successfully seen off McGills airport service and it’s likely another operator would have set up a Tours service if McGills hadn’t given how lucrative it must be. So in the end Lothian have thrown a protective ring around their jewel in the crown city operation and might be quite satisfied with the outcome, even if Lothian County and East Coast Buses merely cover their running costs in the long term.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

It would indeed be a subject for a separate thread, but it would depend on whether or not Stagecoach wanted to sell the Fife and Strathtay operations; I don't think it'd be likely, but you never know.

It'd be more constructive if you would explain why you think someone's idea is nonsense rather than dismissing it out of hand. There's absolutely no need to be rude.

Going back a few years, could you honestly have predicted that McGill's would end up buying out the First Scotland East/Midland Bluebird operation?

With regards to First selling Scotland East, that really shouldn’t surprise anybody with any knowledge of the transport industry as First Group have gained a reputation over the past 10-15 years of selling up or closing down businesses which were struggling to meet financial targets or felt that they didn’t have the ability to turn around the fortunes of some of the areas that were failing.

Some fair points and indeed, no need to be rude. However, I might be inclined to say that the sale of either of those operations is somewhat fanciful. As we've discussed in the SBG thread, Fife has traditionally been one of the strongest operations in Scotland with a tight, well run network. Strathtay might be a handy adjunct to McGills in Dundee... it's was also a handy bit to add onto Bluebird which is why Stagecoach bought it!

It would be as easy to say that McGills could buy First Glasgow in order to link its Inverclyde and Midland Bluebird operations. Undoubtedly, there are opportunities for McGills but perhaps not the ones being suggested!

As for the shock of First selling Scotland East... Perhaps not that shocking. As we all know, First mismanaged the former East business e.g. when it encompassed MB, SMT and Lowland. The ruinous bus war of 2002 followed a lack of investment, and this was exacerbated by the Laidlaw purchase. By the time Lockhead went and Giles Fearnley was installed, there needed to be some serious surgery on those operations and hence we saw the closure of Dalkeith and the reduction of Musselburgh before that and North Berwick were sold to Lothian. Then the Borders Rail return saw one of the main trunk routes so impacted that they sold the Borders operation to WCM as it couldn't sustain itself any longer.

MB and Livingston were doing ok in the mid 2010s as investment came in but with Lothian then waging war and then Covid (and a new broom with Janette Bell), it wasn't a shock when First sold Livingston and including MB to sweeten the deal. All these things made sense... Stagecoach flogging Fife simply doesn't.

 

[Lothianbus703]

Unfortunately, some people have failed to understand that it’s a free market and there’s nothing stopping other operators registering services against Lothian’s Network.

I know this isn’t a topic for Lothian but if they hadn’t expanded into West Lothian in 2018 then they would probably to this day still be operating Airlink and Edinburgh City Tours without competition and the business overall would’ve been much better off financially. I wonder how many of the Lothian senior management team from back then who are still involved now must be thinking in hindsight that the West Lothian expansion was an ill advised move.

Lothian are the only major operator that has an all day footing in West Lothian now and if they decided they were capable of starting this competition then why shouldnt they of?
Yes anyone could choose to register a service against Lothian but first they would question if the massive cost of running the route would be overcome by profits.
The Mcgills group have been known to do the same in other areas it is by no means a one sided situation.

 

[tbtc]

A shame if it does come off

I've seen some very conciliatory responses (it's a free market, there was nothing to stop McGills launching a competitive service, it certainly didn't carry ZERO passengers, it must have hurt the incumbent on the route so it wasn't a failure, it's sad that people want to see a competitive venture fail and cheer when it does, these are people's jobs at risk, at least it ruffled some feathers etc)

Now let's see whether people are just as magnanimous, should, oh, I dunno, Lothian decide to withdraw their X19 into traditional McGills territory

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Now let's see whether people are just as magnanimous, should, oh, I dunno, Lothian decide to withdraw their X19 into traditional McGills territory

I think if the X19 were to go, that would suggest there’s been an ‘agreement’. At the moment I can’t see why either party would agree to such a move.

The X19 has been a disaster though. No market for two operators along there and the X38 is well established on all fronts.

 

[CraigLockhart]

I think if the X19 were to go, that would suggest there’s been an ‘agreement’. At the moment I can’t see why either party would agree to such a move.

The X19 has been a disaster though. No market for two operators along there and the X38 is well established on all fronts.

Is the purpose of the X19 like most of what Lothian Country did in the West with First and McGills more about abstracting enough passengers to make the X38 less profitable to the point they consider pulling out. Playing the long game if you like using the profits made in the city to subsidise the routes to gain complete control of an area in the long term.

 

[smsm1]

If only we had a fare system that didn't require competition for the passenger directly in terms of tickets and instead the competition was based on the quality of service and routes run.

 

[Stan Drews]

If only we had a fare system that didn't require competition for the passenger directly in terms of tickets and instead the competition was based on the quality of service and routes run.

I would suggest that competition purely based on price is fairly rare (in any industry), as there are almost always other factors, like you describe, that will determine which ‘competitor’ gets the sale.

 

[Siemens Trains]

Is the purpose of the X19 like most of what Lothian Country did in the West with First and McGills more about abstracting enough passengers to make the X38 less profitable to the point they consider pulling out. Playing the long game if you like using the profits made in the city to subsidise the routes to gain complete control of an area in the long term.

Not in my opinion. There's surely demand for a Linilithgow bus, which must be single deck. The X19 is mainly intended to carry passengers that would risk messing up the X38, either due to capacity or journey time issues. So the services could work quite well together.

 

[CN04NRJ]

A shame if it does come off

I've seen some very conciliatory responses (it's a free market, there was nothing to stop McGills launching a competitive service, it certainly didn't carry ZERO passengers, it must have hurt the incumbent on the route so it wasn't a failure, it's sad that people want to see a competitive venture fail and cheer when it does, these are people's jobs at risk, at least it ruffled some feathers etc)

Now let's see whether people are just as magnanimous, should, oh, I dunno, Lothian decide to withdraw their X19 into traditional McGills territory

Competition works both ways.

 

[smsm1]

I would suggest that competition purely based on price is fairly rare (in any industry), as there are almost always other factors, like you describe, that will determine which ‘competitor’ gets the sale.

What I'm trying to get at, is for the travelling public, public transport can be a reasonable price if you can stick to a set of rules such as travelling on a single operator. However once you are needing multiple operators, even for one leg of the journey, the cost can double of the day. It's something that puts me off doing some journeys, especially with the high cost of single journeys on some operators.

 

[NorthClyde320]

If the Airport Express was to continue operating, going forward what could have been the most likely buses to upgrade the service? My thoughts would be the remainder of the 42xx batch of Enviro200MMC's from McGill's (replaced by Enviro200's from Midland or additional Yutong singles) or if additional capacity was wanted Enviro400MMC's from either Midland or Xplore (replaced by additional Yutong doubles).

Also would the Unilink be suitable for Yutong doubles once Bannockburn has charging infrastructure installed?

 

[overthewater]

Since were now into October is there a date for the proposed Service changes to take place this month?

 

[Stan Drews]

Since were now into October is there a date for the proposed Service changes to take place this month?

If you mean the revised 2, that commences on the 26th.

 

[overthewater]

Just to ask why has the company forgot to put the PDF version of the new timetable on its website. X10, No38 is still has 2024 versions.

 

[Bedford OB]

Just to ask why has the company forgot to put the PDF version of the new timetable on its website. X10, No38 is still has 2024 versions.

Also service 1, but the new timetable booklets are available for all three, so presumably the web site will catch up soon.

 

[cam22]

Still nothing official from McGills re the AirX ending. Thought there would be an annoucement on the website by now. They are still selling tickets on the website past 3/12 too.

 

[Baileygirl]

Since Midland Bluebird has acquired the new Yutongs there does not seem to be any spare buses. Even the Streetlites which were at Livingston are being operated from Larbert. What has left the fleet?

 

[AilsaBus]

Still nothing official from McGills re the AirX ending. Thought there would be an annoucement on the website by now. They are still selling tickets on the website past 3/12 too.

It's probably forum wibble. Never take anything on forums seriously unless evidence from an official source(with a link)is provided.

 

[stevenedin]

It's probably forum wibble. Never take anything on forums seriously unless evidence from an official source(with a link)is provided.

Ive just seen a few with full loads at the Airport so I'm not convinced that they are doing badly. I do see that the signage in the airport is inadequate though. It gears everyone towards the Airlink and Tram.

 

[LiviCrazy]

Ive just seen a few with full loads at the Airport so I'm not convinced that they are doing badly. I do see that the signage in the airport is inadequate though. It gears everyone towards the Airlink and Tram.

It’s not just AIRX that affects. I contacted Citylink earlier this year to say there is virtually nowhere to see where to catch their 902 from. All the publicity is for AIR. The airport is pretty poor for giving full information For the buses.

 

[Resuwen]

It's probably forum wibble. Never take anything on forums seriously unless evidence from an official source(with a link)is provided.

Stan Drews has confirmed it on here.

To me that is equivalent to an official statement from McGills

 

[overthewater]

I think it's more to do with the fact the people outside of this forum etc AKA public have not been told about this situation.

Also service 1, but the new timetable booklets are available for all three, so presumably the web site will catch up soon.

Have you spotted F16 of 72 yet?

 

[Resuwen]

I guess they don’t want to announce the closure this early because they’d like people to keep using it while it’s still running

 

[smsm1]

This evening I seen an electric bus in the X37 to Allandale. first time I've seen that.

 

[Stan Drews]

This evening I seen an electric bus in the X37 to Allandale. first time I've seen that.

I think that short working comes off a local service rather than being on the end of one of the three main X37 running boards, so may become a regular sighting now.