European Sleeper experience

[AdamWW]

500 average is... quite impressive for a sleeper train! Obviously they have seats as well, and couchettes can be pretty economic with space, but still, I'm impressed

Their trains are almost all couchette, I think.

 

[Krokodil]

The couchette cars take 50 apiece, the sleeper takes 10-30 according to vagonWEB. An example formation was 9 couchettes and a sleeper but I think that they run longer sometimes.

 

[danielnez1]

Getting access to better coaches makes up a big chunk of their plans for the current sharefunding round - I'm intrigued to see they have in mind. There aren't exactly a whole lot knocking around!

I wonder if there are any Mk3 sleepers up for grabs? DSB used 10 in the past

 

[rvdborgt]

I wonder if there are any Mk3 sleepers up for grabs? DSB used 10 in the past

Trenitalia should have a lot of surplus couchettes and sleepers in the near future.

 

[ABB125]

Trenitalia should have a lot of surplus couchettes and sleepers in the near future.

Have they ordered a load of new coaches? I seem to remember reading something about that but can't remember the details

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Sep 2025 ==

Trenitalia should have a lot of surplus couchettes and sleepers in the near future.

Have they ordered a load of new coaches? I seem to remember reading something about that but can't remember the details

 

[rvdborgt]

Have they ordered a load of new coaches?

Yes they have, see e.g. this article:

Trenitalia Orders New Sleeper Coaches from Škoda and Titagarh Firema

Trenitalia has contracted Škoda and Titagarh Firema to supply new railway sleeper coaches for use between Milan, Palermo and Syracuse.

railway-news.com

They'll first replace the coaches on the night trains to Sicily. The plan was to have the first ones in service by June 2026. I'm not sure if that's still the case.

 

[danshrimp]

ES are expecting to give "first updates" on new rolling stock in early October.

It could be ex-Trenitalia coaches but that seems quite speculative and a long way off still, ES sound like they're hoping for something sooner than that. Presumably there will be some ex-Nightjet stock up for grabs on a more immediate basis, displaced by the NJ2s, but that might be a poisoned chalice - I'm not sure those couchettes would even be an improvement, and they'd be swapping one set of unreliable sleepers for another (but perhaps just having more or them will be worthwhile).

 

[Gag Halfrunt]

Are OeBB even going to give up any night stock, or will they use surplus stock to run more services?

Meanwhile OSE in Greece had some modern sleeping cars which presumably aren't being used for anything, since all international services were cancelled as part of austerity measures after the Greek financial crisis and have never been restored. If those cars had been sold or leased to another operator, surely somebody would know.

 

[signed]

Are OeBB even going to give up any night stock, or will they use surplus stock to run more services?

The only ÖBB stock that would be presumably available is the double-decker, but I remember reading here that they are out of gauge pretty much everywhere else than the route they were used.

You won't see Comfortline cars going any time soon though since they AFAIR reading here will be cascaded on some routes like Paris-Vienna (for a daily service) once the NJ NG finish introduction

 

[87015]

The only ÖBB stock that would be presumably available is the double-decker, but I remember reading here that they are out of gauge pretty much everywhere else than the route they were used.

You won't see Comfortline cars going any time soon though since they AFAIR reading here will be cascaded on some routes like Paris-Vienna (for a daily service) once the NJ NG finish introduction

Theres lines of old NJ (single deck from what I remember) stock from the first displacement slowly getting more and more smashed up in various yards around Vienna - seems unlikely any will be sold on after the trouble they got into with moving stock to CD.

 

[MarcVD]

Then there are those 15 ex SNCB I6Bc cars that have been sold to ??? a few years ago for refurbishment in Eastern Europe and have never re-appeared yet...

 

[AdamWW]

I quite like this Trustpilot review they have on their home page:

It was the best night train trip I've had so far. The old carriages, the windows you can open – just a dream.

While I can see that sort of thing appealing to many on this forum (myself included) it seems an interesting marketing strategy to make a point of their old stock

 

[AndrewE]

While I can see that sort of thing appealing to many on this forum (myself included) it seems an interesting marketing strategy to make a point of their old stock

Maybe they recognise the value of the silver pound/Euro, or maybe their polling has revealed the things that people like about train travel (more particularly, travel in diferent sorts of rolling stock.)

I remember stopping for ages in (apparently) the middle of nowhere while en route to Ploce/Kardeljevo(?) in about 1980 and people getting off to collect pomegranates from bushes growing at the trackside. Lots of hooting from the loco before we set off to allow them to get back on board!

 

[StephenHunter]

I quite like this Trustpilot review they have on their home page:



While I can see that sort of thing appealing to many on this forum (myself included) it seems an interesting marketing strategy to make a point of their old stock

There's a surprisingly big market for historical stock trips - FS has their tourist train business that offers very cheap rides on stock going back to the 1930s.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There's a surprisingly big market for historical stock trips - FS has their tourist train business that offers very cheap rides on stock going back to the 1930s.

Though that's because that's impeccably restored and not just knackered old tat.

 

[StephenHunter]

Though that's because that's impeccably restored and not just knackered old tat.

I would hardly call the AB30 "tat". Showing its age, sure, but it worked fine.

 

[danshrimp]

I quite like this Trustpilot review they have on their home page:



While I can see that sort of thing appealing to many on this forum (myself included) it seems an interesting marketing strategy to make a point of their old stock

I got thinking about this comment the other day when I saw some of their social media content (largely sharing content from travel influencers they've incentivised, but I don't hold that against them) which had a similar angle.

My take is that it's not so much marketing as expectation management. They've done good marketing already, their passenger numbers are healthy, but there's a big question of reputation and customer retention. If you look at the other Trustpilot reviews (the ones ES are less keen to share) there will be a no shortage of complaints about - to coin a phrase - the knackered old tat. They're decent enough trains for the job and a bit of fun for the likes of us, but they can be a shock to the system for passengers whose idea of a train is a modern EMU. I saw this in my own partner and it is evident in a lot of the comments from first time passengers. In that sense, perhaps their appeal to the retro nature of the trains helps smooth things over and shift the narrative onto the positive aspects of the aging stock.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I got thinking about this comment the other day when I saw some of their social media content (largely sharing content from travel influencers they've incentivised, but I don't hold that against them) which had a similar angle.

My take is that it's not so much marketing as expectation management. They've done good marketing already, their passenger numbers are healthy, but there's a big question of reputation and customer retention. If you look at the other Trustpilot reviews (the ones ES are less keen to share) there will be a no shortage of complaints about - to coin a phrase - the knackered old tat. They're decent enough trains for the job and a bit of fun for the likes of us, but they can be a shock to the system for passengers whose idea of a train is a modern EMU. I saw this in my own partner and it is evident in a lot of the comments from first time passengers. In that sense, perhaps their appeal to the retro nature of the trains helps smooth things over and shift the narrative onto the positive aspects of the aging stock.

Lots of pictures of people with their heads out of the windows is probably the only way to do that to be honest...at least it's generally treated as allowed over there due to the wider loading gauge!

 

[Austriantrain]

Lots of pictures of people with their heads out of the windows is probably the only way to do that to be honest...at least it's generally treated as allowed over there due to the wider loading gauge!

Tolerated rather than allowed.

 

[StephenHunter]

Tolerated rather than allowed.

Are there cases of people colliding with lineside furniture in mainland Europe?

 

[Cheshire Scot]

Lots of pictures of people with their heads out of the windows is probably the only way to do that to be honest...at least it's generally treated as allowed over there due to the wider loading gauge!

Presumably they still carry the traditional 'do not lean out of the window' warning in multiple languages - from 20 plus years ago memory 'nicht hinauslehnen' being one (apologies if spelling incorrect).

 

[Bletchleyite]

Presumably they still carry the traditional 'do not lean out of the window' warning in multiple languages - from 20 plus years ago memory 'nicht hinauslehnen' being one (apologies if spelling incorrect).

The difference with mainland Europe is that if one ignores such a notice (or similar ones about e.g. not opening doors while the train is moving*) one is responsible for anything that might result from one's own actions.

On a lot of trains there were (and probably still are) a couple of pictograms inside the double glazing with icons showing not to throw rubbish out and not to lean out. Not uncommon was them falling off but because they were inside the double glazing they would tend to be left like that.

Of course with the droplight being high and deep it's possible to enjoy some fresh air without actually *leaning* out, unlike in the UK.

* While those pervaded trains with classic RIC folding doors and no doubt feature on these too, it was never actually possible to do that from inside! The only trains on which I ever found it possible to do that were the manual-doored U- and S-Bahn units, and only on the pre-World War 2 S-bahn units that still operated in Hamburg as late as the 1990s could you actually do it at any speed.

 

[D6130]

Spelling is correct!

 

[bkhtele]

Thanks for the reminder. I've just chased them for a refund they promised after my delay in May.

That wasn't their fault, mind. Downed overhead wires in Czechia.

Have you been refunded yet, what is the best way to escalate an overdue refund. From August!

 

[StephenHunter]

Have you been refunded yet, what is the best way to escalate an overdue refund. From August!

I'm guessing go to whoever their Ombudsman is? Not sure who that is though.

Speaking of compensation, I am getting £220 from WizzAir after the air adjudicator ruled in my favour; they failed to provide evidence that the plane cancellation was down to a bird strike.

 

[rvdborgt]

Have you been refunded yet, what is the best way to escalate an overdue refund. From August!

Has it been at least 30 days since your refund request? Since that's their time limit.
ES's t&c mention the following possibilities in article 10:

• The Supervisory Authority of the Ministry of Infrastructure and Water Management
• European Online Dispute Resolution (ODR) platform
• The civil courts.

With the first point they mean the national enforcement body ILT (this page doesn't seem to be available in English). You can file a complaint with this form.
The European ODR platform doesn't exist anymore but you could ask ES what body/platform you can use instead.

 

[bkhtele]

Thanks, yes 13/8 was the travel date, I was downgraded from sleeper to sole use of6 berth couchette. They promised a partial refund & 20% off my next trip

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Sep 2025 ==

Sorry 25% off as interrail (€50 if not interrail)

 

[danshrimp]

To digress somewhat, I was intrigued to fill out a survey from ES the other day asking for my thoughts on what I look for when it comes to comfort on night trains, and in particular on two proposed new sleeper coach offers (what they should be called, how much I would be willing to pay for each, etc).

The specifications are quite specific, so I wonder if anyone with a better head for this can figure out which new coaches they've got lined up? (It isn't hypothetical, as part of the current sharefunding round they say they've identified available stock that they need some initial funding to unlock.) I can't immediately think of any sleepers that don't have wash basins in the compartment, for example...

 

[Gag Halfrunt]

Perhaps Comfort A is couchettes with the number of beds reduced to three per compartment.

 

[danshrimp]

Perhaps Comfort A is couchettes with the number of beds reduced to three per compartment.

That thought did occur to me, but "mattress and duvet" are (correctly) not how they currently describe the couchette offering.